Recoil Info Please

[wbordelo 0]

I just registered today, after lurking for a while. While I was lurking back in Feb. I came across a modification identified as, The New Hogue Recoil Pad, factory stock adapter plate, and a recoil buffer. The artical went on to state these items could be used on a Saiga 12. Did I misunderstand? These items were available at at Saiga-12.com for $50. Are these items still available at Saiga-12.com ? Have you used these items, and could you please give me your opinion on installation and satisfaction of these items.

[amish_psycho 0]

I don't think you can buy anything there yet, but the AK buffer in the action gets pretty good results and most people modify the Saiga for a Pistol Grip (PG) and use a different stock with a recoil pad. Be patient, someone will lead you in the right direction. Welcome to our humble abode of Saiga Sanctity. Amish out.

[G O B 3,516]

What recoil? Seriously the recoil is mild to begin with! Go to the nearest sporting goods store and get a slip on recoil pad. You can add card stock or masonite shims in that to find the length of pull that you are most comfortable with. Many complaints of excessive recoil are due to an improper (for YOU) length of pull.

Also use one of Blackjacks excellent green buffers. Put the regulator on setting one and ENJOY! (setting 2 is for wussy little 'leo' rounds)

 

G O B

[steve 1]

I have used the Blackjack green buffer and I made an adaptor plate for a pachymeyer 1" medium grind to fit recoil pad. I have long arms and the recoil pad added the leingth I needed to make the S-12 "feel right" for me. I Have also used the Blackjack buffer and it works fine also. I Had used both the buffer and the recoil pad together on a new Saiga with less than the recomended 200 rounds to break in a new stiff action and had 3 misfeeds with No. 8 trap loads, but I felt that could shoot it all day. I think that ether one alone will work for you. The Blackjack is less work to install and costs less. If you want to add a recoil pad and can't get the adaptor plate PM me at this site. I was thinking of listing my stock assembly on the for sale thread of this site. I converted my S-12 to pistol grip and I no longer need the sporter stock.

[300RUM 0]

 

 

I use the Buffer Technologies AK recoil buffer, www.buffertech.com , which helps quite a bit.

I also sent my Saiga12 to Mag-na-port International http://www.magnaport.com/ and had it magnaported. That made a huge difference. They do excellent work. The holes are done using an EDM process, are angled about 45 degrees and resemble rounded rectangles. (see attached pictures)

I think it cost $100.00 to have it done.

The only drawback is my S12 has an 18.5" barrel, so to function reliable in all temperatures and with all ammo I must leave the gas setting to magnum.

Since the recoil is so mild, and the buffer, using the magnum setting doesnt cause excess wear, or your hulls to go flying all over the place.

[wbordelo 0]

Thanks for the replies to my post. I am on hold waiting for my dealer to get his number on suppliers data base . I have been told if all goes well and their are any Saiga-12's left I will be able to buy tomorrow. I suppose that my question wasn't very applicable to myself, as the S 12 I buy would be for home defense and I suppect that in the event of a home invasion one would probably not even be aware of firing untill the engagement was over, should one surive. However should I be lucky enough to get one of the last S 12 in stock I will have to break it in. Now this is where I have flash backs. Back in the early 70s I bought a bolt action 12 ga. I think it was a Mossberg. What I am sure of is that you didn't want to forget to put one foot behind you before firing and the firing of a box of shells left a lingering effect on the body for 24 to 48 hours. As a senior citizen I no longer wish to get that much enjoyment from shooting a shotgun. This senior has also gotten past any maucho issues. I have several questions about the S 12 and shotguns as defensive weapons, but I suppose that should be another topic . Thanks again for the response.

[Bvamp 604]

weighting the buttstock on this gun will help reduce some of the recoil. it wont take a LOT of it out, but it will help lessen it. I noticed the saiga in stock configuration is pretty darn light. The added weight combined with a decent recoil pad, recoil buffer, and low recoil buckshot loads should be about the lowest possible recoil possible with a 12 gauge.

 

I myself dont like to mix shotshells in my home, but a 20 gauge would also be a good choice for your needs.

[ForGreatJustice 1]

The stock Saiga 12 buttstock is hollow, and can be filled with whatever you like.

 

BTW, 300RUM? What's the flash like on that gun? Does the Mag-na porting cause much flash? If so, what's with the suppressor?

 

 

weighting the buttstock on this gun will help reduce some of the recoil. it wont take a LOT of it out, but it will help lessen it. I noticed the saiga in stock configuration is pretty darn light. The added weight combined with a decent recoil pad, recoil buffer, and low recoil buckshot loads should be about the lowest possible recoil possible with a 12 gauge.

 

I myself dont like to mix shotshells in my home, but a 20 gauge would also be a good choice for your needs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[300RUM 0]

Edited March 23, 2005 by 300RUM

[pedal2alloy 206]

What about something like this?

 

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/Pro...+RECOIL+REDUCER

 

 

Some kind of piston to absorb the enertia of the recoil. Some others have mercury in them. You could imbed one of these in the stock.

[amish_psycho 0]

To heck with it!!! put 4 in the stock. There's probably enough room. LOL Never tried a Mercury recoil reducer though. It can be tough Taming the super Nasty recoil of the brutal S12. Amish out.

[MadDog 3]

The Saiga 12 has the least recoil of a 12g shotgun that I have ever fired. I have two pumps (Rem 870 and Moss 500a) and they just sit in the safe since I bought the Saiga 12.

 

I had the 870 setup with dual pistol grips until I shot it a couple of times. Then I changed it to a pistol gripped full stock that was much better. The Saiga 12 is so mild in the recoil department that I can shoot it ONE HANDED. It does not hurt one handed! I would not attempt that with a pump 12g.

 

p.s. I polished the hammer face and the underside of the bolt with my dremmil. Now it functions WITH THE STOCK FOLDED...MadDog

[Bvamp 604]

I have a huge jar (1/2 a gallon of the stuff almost) of mercury sitting doing nothing that I acquired while rebuilding someone's garage. I might have to experiment with a recoil reducer/buttstock weight/inertia weight. my SAR is so light now with all the synthetic parts on it, it doesnt like to bump fire right. pipe, solder, a couple ends, hrm....i wonder. a lead bar is so much simpler though......

 

I too have an 870 and a 500. they both do not much at all since I bought the saiga12 i have. I will use the moss for sabots now is about it, and the 870 has one of them 28" full choke barrels on it, so I dont use that all that much now either. I can fire most 12's one handed, but once you get into the realm of 3" max loads, well, its not too smart to do it one handed outta any gun. the saiga is clearly easier on my shoulder, and seems to handle better for me now that im used to it, and with the extra weight teh wood stock gave it, it kicks and bites a lot less. everyone that shoots it likes it, and is surprised by the lack of recoil. I cant even scare anybody by "accidentally" tossing a 3" buckshot into a mag full of trap loads. if I have to give that up to have a better shotgun? hell, so be it. there is always the pump gun if I really want to do that.

 

I highly doubt that if it were legal to do the pistol grip conversion to it in NY, that i would do it. I like a big beefy traditional stock on my shotgun anyhow, and from what ive seen everyone put on thier guns that have converted them, i wouldnt want to shoot it at a typical 2-300 round session I put in with a shotgun. some of those stocks just look like they have "i will hamburger your shoulder" written all over them. Plus i dont see many of you comment that you can even bump fire the thing with the lesser weight. hey they look cool though, right

 

I hate to say it over and over, but i swear by shotguns, and I prefer them over any other type of firearm, and the saiga12 is the best all around shotgun Ive ever shot, and although im no expert, i have shot many MANY shotguns, ranging from ten dollar specials all the way up to some of the most expensive italian trap guns. the saiga never ceases to impress me....

 

my only issue with the saiga is that I need to buy another one now and set it up as a dedicated slug gun...

[DHunter 1]

I have a huge jar (1/2 a gallon of the stuff almost) of mercury sitting doing nothing that I acquired while rebuilding someone's garage. I might have to experiment with a recoil reducer/buttstock weight/inertia weight. my SAR is so light now with all the synthetic parts on it, it dont like to bump fire right. pipe, solder, a couple ends, hrm....i wonder. a lead bar is so much simpler though......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stick with the lead.

Getting any heat source near Mercury ("pipe, solder, a couple ends") is asking for trouble. If it combusts inside the pipe you'll have a pipe bomb go off in your face & if it just vaporizes your not going to be capable of counting to the number of brain cells you lost from breathing it in but might be able to count the teeth as they fall out. It can also absorb through your skin if it leaks out so be carefull. I use the stuff as an end process in gold recovery then retort it & you have to respect it like a loaded gun or it can mess you up.

[Bvamp 604]

i hear ya, thats why its in the corner in a jar and not on the workbench any kind of chemical handling or anything like that I always take extreme precautions handling. Im not one of those guys that thinks mercury is fun to play with.

 

see, now, im going to have to open my father's notebook and see what I can do with mercury. I seem to recall it being used in something dangerous

 

if i do try to make a buffer, I know now to use plastic pipe and glue instead. thanks for the pointer. i dont care if it explodes, only if it explodes in my face. I shoulda known that just because of its low boiling point.

[MadDog 3]

Although I don't bumpfire the Saiga 12 I can dump the entire mag before the 1st shell hits the ground - WITH NO PAIN. I don't believe that bump fire could be any faster than my trigger finger with the G2 FCG...

[Bvamp 604]

well, ive gotten yelled at a couple times now for not filming a bump out of the 12, so ill be sure to do it soon and post it. you can tell us then if you can pull the trigger that fast.

[G O B 3,516]

Bvamp- Cap one end of a piece of PVC pipe, add a little mercury (keep pipe vertical) fill with silicone caulking, and cap other end! CAUTION use gloves and have plenty of ventilation. I've thought of lead shot in several layers embedded in silicone. The mercury should act to absorb the initial pulse, and return the energy softly. The layered shot should dampen any harmonic resonances.

 

G O B

 

EDIT: I like my S-12 with the stock like it came from the factory, but I have the left over butstock from the wifes S-.410 conversion (so-----)

Edited March 23, 2005 by G O B

[pedal2alloy 206]

Bvamp- Cap one end of a piece of PVC pipe, add a little mercury (keep pipe vertical) fill with silicone caulking, and cap other end! CAUTION use gloves and have plenty of ventilation. I've thought of lead shot in several layers embedded in silicone. The mercury should act to absorb the initial pulse, and return the energy softly. The layered shot should dampen any harmonic resonances.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I would think that you should have the tube be half full (half empty?) of mercury because the weight is helpful as the primary effect, and the sloshing around of it helps as a secondary effect to absorb the recoil.

 

But I think that the piston one would be better because I wouldn't want anything sloshing around in my buttstock.

[TPABA 0]

I don't think most people convert theirs. Mine has the factory stock... I even got used to the rib sight and now I like it. Easy to adjust and fairly interesting. I don't care how it looks... if you just care about looks... then, you don't see a gun as a usable tool, but as something that hightens your prestige. I got it because it works in adverse conditions and is reliable. I needed a 12 gauge for hunting, and this is what I chose. I love the chrome lined and thick barrel, I care not for chokes as this is mosty for slugs... not to mention the barrel being long enough to shoot turkeys and other large birds.

 

I wonder if I'll have better comfort with a sling, and I'm worried about mags... that's it. Other than the mag situation... it's easy going from here.

[Stuart2 0]

Hi Guys

 

Whats bump firing the saiga shogun. Can you explain?

 

thanks

 

Stu

[Bvamp 604]

stu: its simulating machine gun fire. you hold the gun primarily with your left hand on the front stock/grip, and (the easiest way) open your trigger hand all the way open, holding the rear of the gun with JUST your trigger finger. you hold your trigger arm still, and pull the gun forcibly forward with your left hand and if you do it right, it will go off like an automatic weapon. quite a waste of lead if you arent good at it, but it is hellaciously fun.

 

I will take a video clip of me doing it when I get a chance.

[Gaddis 1,689]

Um, isn't that what's someone doing in your avatar anyway, Bvamp?

 

Or is it just fast fingerwork?

[Bvamp 604]

thats my form of slow, aimed fire actually

[TPABA 0]

You need to start lifting weights if it's too much recoil... just add a recoil buffer... it's all you really need.

[Bvamp 604]

what his question about reducing recoil pertains to is this remark he made:

 

""As a senior citizen I no longer wish to get that much enjoyment from shooting a shotgun. This senior has also gotten past any maucho issues. ""

 

i dont think its about anything other than getting down the road in life and having physical limitations. a saiga20 might be a better choice for the older gun owners out there. lessened recoil from the gas operation, lessened recoil from the smaller round.