Another Shooting

[Wolverine 10,360]

Well gang, it has happened again. Some kid just shot his grandparents and I think seven others. It happened on a reservation in Red Lake, Minn. Apparently shooting and grinning as he walked the school halls firing away. He was found dead. I am assuming by his own hand. This is sure to grab headlines again as it is the worst school shooting since Columbine. I hope he was not using an assault type of weapon. Stay tuned

 

Wolverine.

Edited March 22, 2005 by Wolverine

[IndyArms 10,186]

He was shooting with TWO handguns and a shotgun according to news reports...

 

SO thats at LEAST not another strike against the semiauto's.....

 

still no good as the gungrabbers are going to fly with this fucker....

 

 

BEMIDJI, Minn. (AP) - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on an Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, grinning and waving as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The suspect apparently killed himself after exchanging gunfire with police.

 

It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999.

 

One student said her classmates pleaded with the gunman to stop shooting.

 

``You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?'' student Sondra Hegstrom told The Pioneer of Bemidji, using the name of the suspected shooter.

 

Before the shootings at Red Lake High School, the suspect's grandparents were shot in their home and died later. There was no immediate indication of the gunman's motive.

 

In addition to the shooter, the death toll at the school included five students, a teacher and a security guard, FBI spokesman Paul McCabe said in Minneapolis.

 

Fourteen to 15 other students were injured, McCabe said. Some were being cared for in Bemidji, about 20 miles south of Red Lake. Authorities closed roads to the reservation in far northern Minnesota while they investigated the shootings.

 

Hegstrom described the shooter grinning and waving at a student his gun was pointed at, then swiveling to shoot someone else. ``I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that's when I hid,'' she told The Pioneer.

 

McCabe declined to talk about a possible connection between the suspect and the couple killed at the home, but Red Lake Fire Director Roman Stately said they were the grandparents of the gunman. He identified the shooter's grandfather as Daryl Lussier, a longtime officer with the Red Lake Police Department, and said Lussier's guns may have been used in the shootings.

 

Stately said the shooter had two handguns and a shotgun.

 

``After he shot a security guard, he walked down the hallway shooting and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students,'' Stately told Minneapolis television station KARE.

 

Students and a teacher, Diane Schwanz, said the gunman tried to break down a door to get into her classroom.

 

``I just got on the floor and called the cops,'' Schwanz told the Pioneer. ``I was still just half-believing it.''

 

Ashley Morrison, another student, had taken refuge in Schwanz's classroom. With the shooter banging on the door, she dialed her mother on her cell phone. Her mother, Wendy Morrison, said she could hear gunshots on the line.

 

``'Mom, he's trying to get in here and I'm scared,''' Ashley Morrison told her mother.

 

All of the dead students were found in one room. One of them was a boy believed to be the shooter, McCabe said. He would not comment on reports that the boy shot himself and said it was too early to speculate on a motive.

 

Martha Thunder's 15-year-old son, Cody, was being treated for a gunshot wound to the hip.

 

``He heard gunshots and the teacher said 'No, that's the janitor's doing something,' and the next thing he knew, the kid walked in there and pointed the gun right at him,'' Thunder said.

 

The school was evacuated after the shootings and locked down for the investigation, McCabe said.

 

``It will probably take us throughout the night to really put the whole picture together,'' he said.

 

It was the nation's worst school shooting since two students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves on April 20, 1999.

 

The rampage in Red Lake was the second fatal school shooting in Minnesota in 18 months. Two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring in September 2003. Student John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time, awaits trial in the case.

 

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its Web site.

 

The reservation is about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities. It is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state. According to the 2000 census, 5,162 people lived on the reservation, and all but 91 were Indians.

 

 

[Bvamp 604]

what id like to know is what the retired cop was doing with police issue weapons more criminal negligence on the PD's behalf I think.

[IndyArms 10,186]

How did you know they are police issue weapons... All my story said was "two handguns and a shotgun"

 

what were the guns the kid took from his Grandfather??

 

 

[Bvamp 604]

ok, the grandfather wasnt a retired cop turns out.

 

the feds said he took a bullet proof vest and shot everyone with a 22 caliber rifle. I highly doubt they wont release the type of weapon because it was a ruger 10/22. the cops dont want to announce that they are as unsafe or worse with guns as any ordinary citizen/victim is. hell, that would be enough to repeal the gun laws in itself. facist bastards.

 

cops should be held to the gun laws. they arent keeping any of us safe. sorry to ya'll, but thats how i see it.

 

let me think. fbi not wanting to comment on the gun, but it was a police issue 22? HMMMMMMM what comes in 22 caliber now, that a cop would have? gee i dont know WHY they dont want to say "yeh the kid stole a police cruiser and the AR15 out of the back and killed people, but you all cant have one, because a criminal might steal yours or you might do something bad with it."

 

anybody see where Im going with this ?

 

I havent felt safe in terms of law enforcement protecting me ever in my life, and the abuse they have given me in my short lifetime is driving me to speak out about it. I think its time to repeal the gun laws and let people protect themselves, without being afraid of letting anyone know they have a gun for fear of police harrassment. I also think its about time that they remove the stupid restrictions on carry permits and NFA laws.

 

why would a crook need to steal my assault weapon? hell the police practically GIVE them to them now. i feel SO safe, and i have a RIGHT to be free from fear.

 

my only question is, what is the next step to take? I will tell ya right now the NRA and other lobbies wont help. they are bought as well, and it shows in our gun laws now. how does one sue the government for violating civil rights of everyone? who exactly do you sue?

[G O B 3,516]

It seems to me that a recurring them of these school shootings is "a troubled kid that was bullied". When the school administraters and teachers ALLOW kids to single out someone for repeated abuse -it is inevitable that these incidents will reoccur! This kid obviously preffered to die rather than to endure thr hell that his life had become, and he took some of his torturers and their enablers with him! Kids are MEAN by nature, and the administrators and teachers are SUPPOSED to be in charge. As long as they let the kids to do whatever they want WITHOUT proper supervision there will be NO reprieve. We need to hold these teachers and administrators ACCOUNTABLE! Every employee of that school has failed and should be fired. Untill it impacts their employment there will never be a move by the school systems to actually get to know the kids and SUPERVISE their activities.

 

G O B

[Gaddis 1,689]

Sounds like a case of F.A.S. to me.

 

You know how those native Americans like their fire water (even when pregnant).

[Guest Guest]

When the school administraters and teachers ALLOW kids to single out someone for repeated abuse -it is  inevitable that these incidents will reoccur!

 

get this one...

 

when i was in highschool, one of the kids there said that he was going to "go on a rampage, kill everyone, and then kill himself". and apparently he had some beef with me, because he said that when he did go on his rampage, i would be the first to know. i'm not sure what problem he had with me other then that i was friends with a girl that kept turning him down...

 

anyways, several of us heard him, and we all ended up in the office telling the administrators our story, and then filing reports with a cop.

 

nothing happened to this kid! he wasn't suspended, he wasn't expelled, he wasn't even punished! they just let him keep doing what he was doing.

[Bvamp 604]

that is why I am for controlling the police and thier guns too. nothing in the second amendmant says that guns are for police only, or that you cant have anything. in fact it says you have the right to bear arms UNINFRINGED. disarming teachers, disarming pinicples, and disarming school guards is grossly negligent on the governments behalf. even further, the cops cant seem to control thier hardware (hey they hold private citizens to ONE persons actions), so why the hell am I sitting here without the right to have a SBR a DD or a machinegun if I want it?

 

all of this is ridiculous. the pointing of fingers with the guns is ONE WAY. I also notice the news is now saying the guns involved were a n issue sidearm and a shotgun. what happened to the 22? im wondering what cop carries a 22 pistol in thier holster.

 

people dont want to ruin kids lives by expelling them from school. but then again, kid's parents arent like the were once. kids get away with muder these days (literally), and the parents just say "what could i do? the kid was out of control?" or something similar.

 

the government keeps a file on every one of us illegally anyway. maybe they should make those files searchable by "doctor big brother" and let the governemnt peoples lives before they start.

 

better yet, i have a better solution:

 

repeal gun laws. arm every good citizen. someone flying off the handle wont make it very friggin far if there are 20 people within 100 yards of them packing heat.

 

I know plenty of guys taht took jobs as cops or guards of one type or another so that they could "buy whatever guns they want". some of them are fairly level headed, but others, well, i cant believe they even HAVE a gun, let alone NFA weapons that the governemnt GAVE them.

 

cops dont seem to know how to control thier firearms anyway, so they should be held to the same laws as the rest of us with guns. just wait till someone steals a cop car and takes a machinegun out of the trunk and goes on a rampage. it'll happen sooner or later, you watch. the other thing that will happen sooner or later is armed terrorists shooting up someplace here like they did in russia twice now.

 

solution: repeal gun laws for good citizens. level the playing field. this isnt fucking UTOPIA, and if it were, pure entropy IS total chaos. there is no such thing as peace. why try to force something that will never happen?

[Onepoint 0]

....so that they could "buy whatever guns they want".

 

Yeah what they want and what is reality are 2 different things.

 

Being a cop doesnt mean you automatically get to own a M-249 or Full auto MP5 or what ever. Some departments have the federal licence and own full auto weapons then issue them to officers, usually swat team members. The only thing any cop could have that us peons couldn't, was bayonet lugs and Hicap mags, and that is history now.

 

They don't own these weapons unless they have a licence themself, they can't always take them home etc. It varies from state to state, dept to dept. Granted, some are so lax about it they leave the dang things laying around! But to make a blanket statement that cops get whatever they want is false.

[Bvamp 604]

come on now, almost all cops do, say, and act however they feel like it, and if you dont like it they have no problem dreaming shit up and taking you to jail on it.

 

I bet if i went to any one of the 9 million local stations here, I can find all kinds of 922 and NFA firearms violations (if you read the law, they are exempt anyhow even though they are not federal military....how does that work? the gun laws apply to me and not them? wha? how the fuck do you figure that one?), unsafe storage conditions, and missing weapons. hell, we have cops here that sell guns that are on thier way to the smelter out of thier trunks. or at least we did. I have no clue if they figured out it was happening or not.

 

you must be from one of the few "honest cop" areas in the country or something OnePoint. hey, there are plenty of good cops out there. I know of two, myself. one of them arrested his boss for DWI when no cop in the state would. he has no expectations of being promoted from sergeant now, and he is alienated somewhat in the force because of that. he stays on the job and does his job right, and is still there because he wants to make it to retirement in part. now THAT is some incentive to doing the right thing huh? if i could, id find a way to make him the boss of his branch of the police. not my call though, go figure. i only pay thier salary with my taxes, so why would i have a say in it anyway?

 

I also know that here at least, the uniformed state troopers might be pricks, but are decent cops more or less. the rest of them? like almost the entire police force in my area? i wouldnt trust for shit. in fact, i dont anymore. nor do i respect a single one of them either. the only public servant i have any respect for is the judge. the cops do it to themselves, so dont give me crap about it.

 

As some of you may have noticed, I am using every opportunity to voice my opinion on the government where firearms is concerned and the police department. im tired of being treated like some pet on a leash, and Im tired of being treated however they see fit at the time. the only rights you have shouldnt be those that you can remember at any one specific point in time. shit dont work like that.

 

hey they need to fill thier ranks with SOMEONE right? id become a cop, but i couldnt work with people like that. there have been times where cops gave me shit and if they WERENT cops would have been knocked just like i would anyone else that disrespected me in the same manner.

 

i cant wait for something really bad to happen in my area. im going to be all over those guys when it does.

 

anybody that would bring a 9mm or a 12 gauge to a rifle fight is a fucking idiot in my book, and is not protecting me in ANY way. nevermind ill be DEAD by the time they get up thier nerve to show up in force to help me if i did need to call thier sorry asses. no thanks, I got it covered, let the neighbor call them, ill have a smoke while I wait for the coroner to show up. why didnt i call sir? who the fuck cares, yer here anyway arent ya?

 

dont tell me not to blanket statement cops. show me you are a good cop by your actions and i will note you as an exception every time i bring it up. in my short lifetime, ive seen TWO good, honest, fair cops. thats SOME track record.

[Gaddis 1,689]

cops dont seem to know how to control thier firearms anyway, so they should be held to the same laws as the rest of us with guns. just wait till someone steals a cop car and takes a machinegun out of the trunk and goes on a rampage. it'll happen sooner or later, you watch. the other thing that will happen sooner or later is armed terrorists shooting up someplace here like they did in russia twice now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, didn't something like that just happen in the news not too long ago where a MP-5 and a M-16 (I think?) was stolen from a SWAT officers car after an accident.

 

And for who I offended with the "drunken indian" comment, I'm sorry! I've just been in a ballsack kind of mood lately.

[Onepoint 0]

Here is how blanket statements work. - All cops are bad, just like all who own "assault" rifle are potential mass murderers, all hair dressers are gay and people who drive sport cars have small dicks. You can replace most with all and it would still be as rediculous.

 

Irrational statements are one reason why gun owners have such a hard time convincing the nightly news watchers that we are just regular people like them and not the next nut jobs on a rampage. I'm sorry if its disturbs you to stick to the facts, and the fact stated was cops dont get any weapon they want because they get a badge.

 

You say you are tired of being treated poorly, so your reaction is to act in a way so they treat that way more? You ever wonder that they may treat you that way to provoke you? Disrespect? What are you a banger? Grow up.

[IndyArms 10,186]

What are you a banger?

 

Umm... whats a banger????

 

 

[Grau_Tek 0]

im gonna guess

its short for gangbanger

im prolly wrong as usual

[Bvamp 604]

banger........now thats funny. no im just someone that is sick and tired of police abusing thier privledges and duties is all. instead of them making me feel like they are there to help me, they seem to be there to make life worse for anybody stupid enough to ask them for help or have something unfortunate happen to them. so toss the SERVE part of thier oath out the window, thanks. they can toss that protect part out of thier oath as well, as I know many MANY people that dont believe the police force makes them any safer.

 

Im more interested in seeing the gun laws either repealed or if not, applied to all police. they are not federal standing army personelle, and as such, the illegal firearms laws should apply to them as such instead of making them illegally excluded from the illegal laws.

 

but thats a typical reaction. "oh police are god and you can go fuck yourself". the police in general have NEVER, and probably will never do right by me. why in HELL should i respect that? because there are good cops in some town somwhere where the population is 2,500?

[PM2790 0]

While all of the comments so far have been valuable for discussion, I think we are missing the big picture. Don't we as a nation need to be asking ourselves 'How will Michael Moore make money off of this?'

[Onepoint 0]

but thats a typical reaction. "oh police are god and you can go fuck yourself

 

 

What reaction? I said its not good to make blanket statements and showed you why. I have met both sides of cops from city cops & sherriffs to state police body guards for the Govenor. Some of them are most definitely assholes on a powertrip. Some of them are the best example community servant there could be. Amazingly cops turn out to be human just like the rest of us.

 

But dont let that stop you from keeping any preconcieved notion, and bad attitude towards any authority because you live in some over populated, over regulated place somewhere. wink.gif Myself, I am less worried about cops, and more concerned with govt in general and even then I don't advocate the disbandment of everything, govt has a place and so do police.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

The grandfather had a service pistol because his department gave him the oppurtunity to buy it for 200.00 once retired. He was allowed to keep his jacket badge also. Why do I think this?

 

My father/uncle/aunts/grandfather/grandmother!, cousins are/were all cops here in MN.

 

some deputies. Some city cops. Some high level officers(suits). All are given the oppurtunity for purchse of service revolver/semi-auto after retirement.

 

 

And no. At least for this State(MN)...this shooting.....licensed peace officers in the state of MN are in no-way looked at less analy on auto weapons, or anything else. I was only on my local police department for 11months.....

 

I actually feel different than most. Police where I am from are always being investigated, or fucked with by IA that just doing your job is hard. I took the first out I could. And I have not regretted it. The military is more my speed. Someone talks shit. Thump em. In MN you aren't superman being a cop.

 

 

I feel bad for NY......and CA...i did notice what Bvamp says, andi was in CA...must be the social climate in these places...what else could it be?

 

And if you are a juvienille, or an adult. And you are set on killing. You will succeed. Guaranteed. Locks on guns..so what?

 

thats why this is trajic! it was family! blaming some dead dude because he was "slippin" didn't secure his shit? sad

 

Who can hurt you more than the ones you love/trust? no one!

 

All blame should be focused on that fucking school. period. Take it from me...an original deviant piece of shit. plenty of time in juvinille detention. I just never dropped the hammer on anyone thank god. And i finally met my dad(a cop) who kicked my ass up and down the block at 14 and straightened me out..LOL

 

the KIDS, and the SCHOOLS man...thats important. Not guns. blame.

[Bvamp 604]

dodge: the kid drove his grandfathers squad car to the school. do they let you keep that when you retire as well?

[ivrfrkbrd 0]

Greetings:

Just one point that has been missed in the above conversations. Native American tribes are viewed as soveriegn states,and thier police departments are therefore not necessarally subject to state laws or guidelines. I believe that the tribes fall under the jurisdiction of the FBLM.

 

If my dazed history serves me right, often resevation police can become embroiled in tribal politics thus there could be many reasons that the grandfather (R.I.P.) had a squad car.

 

The blame is solely upon the shooter. Weapons can be aquired if they are wanted. However I have always had a problem with the term 'unarmed guard', espeically in a school. I think that it's pretty obviuos that the concept of 'uniform-as-a-deteriant' is not a viable option.

 

Keep the faith.

[Guest Guest]

dodge: the kid drove his grandfathers squad car to the school. do they let you keep that when you retire as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

got kids? a wife? anyone close that can get at your shit? even if in your wildest dreams you didn't think it possible? exactly B

 

and the squad no....i was just responding to your always prevalent opin about cops and their toys......

 

problem isn't always the tools, maybe the human Tools....LOL

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

oops

 

that was me!

 

lol

[pistonring8 1]

Someone made a good point about NY and CA having a great deal of dickhead cops. The cops are about 10% nicer here in the PA mountain region since the civilians ALL own firearms. There are some that are great examples and dedicated servants and those that are power tripping asshats that approach your vehicle at a full draw for a speeding ticket. I have had the pleasure of dealing with both.

 

Dont forget about those few high and mighty Game Wardens that sometimes play the role of "God to all property" and occasionally find themselves hancuffed to thier own SUV after a run in with a good ole boy!

 

Another good point was made about a family member getting into your firearms nomatter how well you think you have them locked up. It could happen. A gun in a safe isnt doing you a damn bit of good against an attacker. Try explaining to a jury that you heard your front doorknob rattling at 3:00 am. Or mabey the glass breaking- so you unlocked your safe, detached your trigger lock, loaded the mag....etc.

 

Most of us keep a firearm readily available in the house.... Or is that just me?

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

True. So it seems that when it comes to firearms and other "deadly" items...one must consider even trusted family as potential problems.....

 

inside of home becomes a fortress like outside.....where does it end?

[Bvamp 604]

pistonring: I am the one knocking police hardcore. they deserve no less as a whole from the common citizen such as myself. one bad apple ruins the bunch, but one GOOD apple doesnt make the bunch good. I will continue to voice this opinion in the future.

 

dodge: good point. ive met people that i wouldnt let anywhere near any of my firearms, and Ive also been around people that would take thier friend's firearm and screw around with it like a dumb ass.

 

buy a safe, and take your cheapo 12 gauge or whatever you want, load it, and build it into a wall under a breakout panel and dont tell anyone. no crook kid or other person will get it, and it was common practice in the old days to protect one's self.

[Grau_Tek 0]

to sort of get back on the subject of this particular school shooting......

 

this is a supposed flash animation made by the kid who did the shooting

in MN

 

Jeff Weiss Flash Animation

 

very disturbing