jswledhed 57 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) Been thinking about Mosin Nagants lately and have decided to get more serious about it. Don't know a dang thing about them, though. The sun of my knowledge is that they're chambered in 7.62x54r and there are several different models, of them the most common seems to be the long barrel 91/30. Beyond that, nadda. I've done some reading, but not loads. What do I look for in one? Common problems? Hex receiver vs round receiver? What's the deal with the firing pin gauge, go, no-go, field? Any info would be helpful. Edited March 19, 2010 by jswledhed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Been thinking about Mosin Nagants lately and have decided to get more serious about it. Don't know a dang thing about them, though. The sun of my knowledge is that they're chambered in 7.62x54r and there are several different models, of them the most common seems to be the long barrel 91/30. Beyond that, nadda. I've done some reading, but not loads. What do I look for in one? Common problems? Hex receiver vs round receiver? What's the deal with the firing pin gauge, go, no-go, field? Any info would be helpful. I like the carbine versions myself. I don't like having a bayonet that is not permanently attached to the gun. The 91/30s are also ridiculously long. Common problem: Sticky bolt syndrome. Since most of them were preserved in cosmoline, a residue remains even on the ones that appear to have none. Firing the gun a bit caused it to heat up and cause the bolt stick. If you can smell cosmoline on your gun, you will probably need to give it a good cleaning. Another common problem: Elevation off, difficult to adjust. There are numerous means people use to adjust the elevation, but the original sight doesn't incorporate a means to do so. It was set by the armories and not adjusted after that. My M44 is my favorite gun to shoot. It's not exactly a target gun, but has lots of power, in a relatively compact package. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alexc.s. 25 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I don't have a clue about the mosin nagant. That being said I found a large collection of jokes about them, and ARs,and AKs. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm The one thing I know of them is that they are a bit like Aks, they just keep going no matter what kind they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 you can't kill them and they are cheap to shoot with an enjoyable kick and good accuracy.. Fun to shoot.. cheap to replace if somehow you did manage to kill one. Good guns.. Biggest problem is mounting a scope.. can be dificult. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Biggest problem is mounting a scope.. can be dificult. Iron sights! Learn to love 'em! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 (edited) I only have the "sticky bolt problem" when shooting lacquered case rounds. No such issues with Bulgarian surplus brass or Silver Bear. One weird thing about the M44 carbines, is that they shoot differently depending on whether the bayo is extended or folded - has to do something with barrel harmonics. The Soviets sighted them in with the bayos extended, because their soldiers were instructed to keep them extended at all times, except for when being transported in trucks. Every M44 that I shot, was shooting low and to the left, with their bayos folded. Wouldn't be a big problem is they weren't so hard to re-zero. One of the nicest, most accurate MNs that you can buy are the Finnish M39 models. The Finns captured a shitload of Soviet MN's during the Winter War of 1940, picked out the ones with the best barrels and receivers and put some very nice, ergonomic Finnish wood on them. These weapons are fairly rare though and go for $300+ these days. My personal one is a 1 MOA gun and can bust metal plates at 300 yards all day. It's a heavy mofo though. As far as mounting scopes, the easiest way is to get a quality "scout" mount, which easily replaces the back sight without permanently modifying the weapons, and use a pistol/scout scope. I recommend "Daryl's Mounts". Edited March 19, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dannyfantasy2000 68 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I love my M44, a hoss of a rifle. I get the sticky bolt too after shooting for a while. It can be overcome with adequate CLP. Mines really inaccurate, maybe 10 MOA on a good day.(Bore's pitted pretty bad, might have something to do with that.) Still a lot of cheap plinking fun. Recoil and muzzle flash like a MOTHAFUCKER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I've looked at some pics comparing the carbine and long-carrel versions. Both have their charm. What's the difference between the hex receiver and theround receiver models? Aside from the shape, obviously. What about the firing pin gauge? Go, No-Go, Field gauges? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 What about the firing pin gauge? Go, No-Go, Field gauges? I still don't understand this question. One of the tools that comes with the cleaning kit has slots to make sure your firing pin protrusion is neither too short nor too long, but not sure if that's relevant to your question. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted March 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I'm clear on Go (pin protrusion short enough that it won't strike the primer before trigger is pulled) and No-Go (protrusion too long, pin could hit the primer on bolt closing). What's Field? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dannyfantasy2000 68 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I've never heard of anybody having headspace issues with a Mosin. I never gauged mine and it's been firing fine for years. A very simple rifle... check it once if you're really concerned and the rifle will be ok for the next 100 years or so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ktcm7271 999 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I got a long one for $94 and it's in great shape. A quick check list when looking at one. 1. Bring a flash light and look down the barrel, if not bright and shiny pass on it. 2. Work the bolt, if you need a 2x4 to cycle it-pass. 3. remove the bolt-just hold the trigger and pull the bolt back. Major damage or messed up pin is all you really need to check. 4. After you get one, laser bore sight it and use a sight drift or hammer and punch to adjust the front site. mine was way off so the bayonet would fit. It's accurate as hell, but years of welding and cnc laser and plasma has my eyes a bit buggy, so I installed the easy mount and a scout scope and I'm shooting 1-2" groups at 100 yards-it'll improve as a shoot it more. You won't do better for $100.00 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rob-cubed 74 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 There are lots of Mosin fans and for good reason: it's cheap, the ammo is cheap, and it will run all day and outlive you. A real blast to shoot. I had one, and sold it. It was great for the first shot or two, but once the barrel warmed up the groups got worse than my WASR. For a hunting gun, a good clean Mosin could be workable. But for anything else, I'd probably spring for a Swiss K-31. They are precision machines, and the milsurp ammo is incredibly accurate. Flame pants on... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 1. Bring a flash light and look down the barrel, if not bright and shiny pass on it. Try pulling the bolt out (by pulling the trigger and pulling the bolt backwards), and then look through the barrel straight at a light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 hex is the way the gun was made.. the actual design, and supposedly better, but were harder to make, so come world war two they abandoned hex for max production.. Having said that I have three mosins I play with pretty regularly, two are hex, one isn't, but I wouldn't say I could tell the difference in quality.. it's more bragging rights.. More effort went into the hex recievers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Like these guys said, make sure you got a shiny bore and a firing pin that isn't busted up. Grab it, take it home, clean the living piss out of it. You are now a Mosin expert. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 I have five .. so far: Hungarian M44 Russian/Soviet Ex-Dragoon Soviet M91/30 (Tula) Soviet M91/30 Izhevsk Finnish M28/76 Target Match Rifle I'll probably pick-up one of those PU sniper models and a few more Finn ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) To the OP... Start reading, http://7.62x54r.net/ Start at the top of the list and keep going, everything ya wanna know. I'm clear on Go (pin protrusion short enough that it won't strike the primer before trigger is pulled) and No-Go (protrusion too long, pin could hit the primer on bolt closing). What's Field? Wrong. Your confusing headspace gages with a pin protrusion gage, and not understanding what a pin protrusion gage is actually used for. The pin protrusion gage, which is usually incorporated into the kit's multitool, is used to measure for proper firing pin protrusion when triggered. Too short and it may not strike the primer hard enough to ignite it. Too long and you may pierce the primer and may get a face full of powder residue/hot gases. The latter is the main concern. In a properly assembled/functioning bolt, the pin should not be protruding when merely closing the bolt. Screw the firing pin into the cocking knob until the back end is flush with the rear of the cocking knob and the slot lines up with the index mark. After fully assembling the bolt, decock it, make sure the bolt head is tight against the connector bar and check the firing pin protrusion with a gauge. The firing pin should touch the shallower (75) of the two center notches in the gauge and not touch the deeper (95) of the two center notches. If necessary, adjust by screwing the firing pin in or out of the cocking knob, always stopping with the index mark aligned. ..................................................... Go, No Go & Field Go gage - Headspace is Good to Go. A "Go" gauge is the gauge that is used to measure minimum headspace. When you place the "Go" gauge in the rifle and close the bolt, the bolt should close and lock easily and completely. If the bolt does close successfully then this tells you that the firearm has at least sufficient headspace. It may still have excessive headspace, but that is determined by the "No-Go" gauge. If the bolt will not close on the "Go" gauge then you may not have sufficient headspace. This means you do not have enough headspace to chamber a cartridge properly and can damage the rifle if you force the bolt to close. No-Go gage - Headspace is not good to go. A "No-Go" gauge is the gauge that is used to measure the maximum allowed headspace. When you place the "No-Go" gauge in the rifle and close the bolt, the bolt should not close and lock. If the rifle does close on the "No-Go" gauge you may have a problem that needs to be tended to by a gunsmith and may be an unsafe weapon to fire. Field gage - Used to double check a gun which fails the No-Go, if the gun won't close on a Field gage, it is considered safe. If the rifle fails the "No-Go" gauge then you should measure using a "Field" gauge. A "Field" gauge is used to measure the largest possible safe headspace dimensions. When you place the "Field" gauge in the rifle and close the bolt, the bolt absolutely should not close and lock. If the rifle does close on the "Field" gauge you have a problem that needs to be tended to by a gunsmith and an unsafe weapon to fire. If the bolt closes on a "No-Go" gauge but does not close on the "Field" gauge this means you have a rifle that has excessive headspace but is safe to shoot. Basically it will stretch the heck out of brass and good luck trying to reload. Read the complete article, http://www.surplusri...space/index.asp Edited March 20, 2010 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted March 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Thanks, CR! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 M-38's are sighted in as they come. 91-30' and m-44's were sighted in with the bayonet fixed. To sight in a 91-30 or an M-44 without the bayonet, it is necessary to install a taller front sight pin and drift the rear sight to the left.A new front sight can be fabricated from a nail or piece of bucket handle. You can even slide a piece of tubing over it the get the increased height. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 M-38's are sighted in as they come. 91-30' and m-44's were sighted in with the bayonet fixed. To sight in a 91-30 or an M-44 without the bayonet, it is necessary to install a taller front sight pin and drift the rear sight to the left.A new front sight can be fabricated from a nail or piece of bucket handle. You can even slide a piece of tubing over it the get the increased height. I fully concur with the method in which the different variations were sighted in.And agree that the vast majority of 91/30's & 44's indeed are well known to have a high POI, and need correcting. Especially the 44, if being shot without the bayonet extended. Been all over 7.62x54r.net and other surplus rifle forums and just don't recall hearing of a stereotypical tendency to shoot the left. Curious, gonna have to look around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hery Mosin men, Ive got a Mosin that Ive never shot. The plan was exactly all the positives everyone has mentioned; low cost, hard hitting caliber, etc, etc. But recently, after almost buying a PSL I'm instead forcing myself to consolidate the number of calibers I have (and therefore need to stockpile!) I dont even know the models, series, etc. What are the best site(s), sources for researching what I have & its value? Do these have to go thru an FFL and/or are they considered C&R weapons? Thanx for any educational info Cheers, Harv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Hery Mosin men, Ive got a Mosin that Ive never shot. The plan was exactly all the positives everyone has mentioned; low cost, hard hitting caliber, etc, etc. But recently, after almost buying a PSL I'm instead forcing myself to consolidate the number of calibers I have (and therefore need to stockpile!) I dont even know the models, series, etc. What are the best site(s), sources for researching what I have & its value? Do these have to go thru an FFL and/or are they considered C&R weapons? Thanx for any educational info Cheers, Harv If the receiver is from 1898 or before, it does not have to go through an FFL. Go here to figure out what you have: http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?board=1.0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 I dont even know the models, series, etc. What are the best site(s), sources for researching what I have & its value? Identify it by picture, or bolt markings, it is one long page which you can scroll through. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm Once you figure out what it is, then you can figure out how valuable it is. If it is a round receiver, it isn't worth much. If it has a hex receiver it could be worth from $150ish up to several thousand dollars. Then send me some pics, I'm always looking for a fair deal on another one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elia.jon1 1 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 lazily i didn't read much on the page but your post(op) but.... if you can get one with a circle 11 on it my polish m44 shoots damn good, and the polish guns were some of the "better" made mosins polish.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Thanx guys I'll start doing some reading Cheers, Harv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 (edited) Do these have to go thru an FFL and/or are they considered C&R weapons? If you have a C&R FFL license, any Mosin can be shipped straight to your home because YOU are the FFL. No 4473 required. If the rifle's receiver was made before 1899, it's an antique and you don't need a C&R license. Pre '99 guns also don't need to be logged, if you do happen to be an FFL, but it's still smart to bookkeep them with notes to the effect that they're pre '99. Chatellerault receivers are universally pre '99, but they don't have date stamps. Many people look at the date on the barrel and assume that's the date on the receiver too, but many Finn rifles were rebarreled on pre '99 receivers and ended up getting logged as firearms because of the later date on the barrel. If you have rifles like that, make sure you document beyond any shadow of a doubt that they're on Chatellerault receivers before removing them from your bound book. Edited March 25, 2010 by 3ae6ucb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jswledhed 57 Posted April 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Picking up a 1926 rooskie ex-Dragoon 91/30 on Saturday morning. The rest of the day will be spent in cosmoline removal mode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 According to Wife, I need to sell some of mine. I'll post something in the WTS section. 1) 91/30 1) M38 1) M44 Only one I've shot is the M38, very high on fun factor! Frosty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) According to Wife, I need to sell some of mine. I'll post something in the WTS section. 1) 91/30 1) M38 1) M44 Only one I've shot is the M38, very high on fun factor! Frosty First dibs on the M38! (assuming it's in reasonably good shape and the price is right). Edited April 21, 2010 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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