Who open carries on a regular basis?

[Azrial 1,091]

... Azrial, I am not trying to get into a fight with you here, but you are wrong about being required to present a drivers license. If he was driving he would be required. But he was walking. As far as identifying yourself. the law is says you are only requires to id yourself if you are being investigated, detained or arrested on reasonable suspician of a crime. I am not talking about acceptable practice, I am referring to what the LAW ACTUALLY STATES.

No fight needed! Let me see if I can break it down for you!

 

One, he drove to the scene and parked.

 

Two, that is not what the law states in Georgia.

 

40-5-29( b ) Failure to Exhibit License on Demand by Law Enforcement Officer

 

(a) Every licensee shall have his driver´s license in his immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle.

( b ) Every licensee shall display his license upon the demand of a law enforcement officer. A refusal to comply with such demand not only shall constitute a violation of this subsection but shall also give rise to a presumption of a violation of subsection (a) of this Code section and of Code Section 40-5-20.

© A person convicted of a violation of subsection (a) of this Code section shall be fined no more than $10.00 if he produces in court a license theretofore issued to him and valid at the time of his arrest.

 

Nothing there says that the law only applying while driving. Remember it is not your drivers license, it remains the property of that State, which is why you can be called to turn it in if it is suspended or revoked, or exhibited. I do not know about New Mexico and do not what to bother to look it up.

 

Three from the moment that he was stopped he was under Investigation.

 

Now I have a question for you, it all possible humility, why would you assume that I do not know what I am talking about here? I have been to court on this issue many times and have never lost a case where this was an element of the case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2010 by Azrial

[Azrial 1,091]

has anyone ever heard of a case where an open carrier has had their gun taken from them by a bad guy? i haven't, not saying that it has never or couldn't happen, but it's not something i'd personally be worried about....that is IF i was able open carry, which i'm not cause i live in smellinois

If you carry a gun openly long enough someone will try to take it away.

 

Hell as a uniformed officer I have had an idiot try to jerk my pistol out of my holster at a 7-11 store from behind, "just to prove he could." Well that is what he told the Judge a month later when he was bound over on a felony with his arm still in a cast.

 

He later tried to sue claiming that the exposed pistol of a uniformed officer "temped" him. This was a failure for his as well. This guy was not some street punk, but a successful business man.

[DogMan 2,343]

....Look Azrial, I'm not going to play your little word games with you. Have fun with that all by yourself. Go ahead and dissect all my sentences for little traces of evil intent or whatever it is that you do. Suffice it to say that you and I don't agree on many things and I'm perfectly fine with that. If it really mattered to me I would try to play along but frankly I just don't care what you think about what I think, to put it quite bluntly.

There is no "word game" here at all. You hate the police and like to make up stuff to try and support your position. You know nothing about the police or police work, you just like to pretend you do.

 

If I claimed that I could read the mind of every truck driver or Indian Chief in the world people would think that I was crazy, and rightfully so.

 

I just think that it nice to point out every now and then how biased your little pretensions are.

 

Yeah, and I guess you're not biased at all are you? You say I hate the police so I guess you are anointed with those special mind reading powers you like to accuse me of having. You can't prove any of the drivel you say about me either so I guess the standards that you apply to everyone else don't apply to you. It's just your opinion Azrial and nothing more, and your opinion along with a shiny new quarter are worth about twenty five cents to me. Like I said before it would be impossible for me to care any less what you think.

[vitamink 90]

i think azrial was referring to your general disdain for police in your earlier statement.

[Snoofer 138]

has anyone ever heard of a case where an open carrier has had their gun taken from them by a bad guy? i haven't, not saying that it has never or couldn't happen, but it's not something i'd personally be worried about....that is IF i was able open carry, which i'm not cause i live in smellinois

If you carry a gun openly long enough someone will try to take it away.

 

Hell as a uniformed officer I have had an idiot try to jerk my pistol out of my holster at a 7-11 store from behind, "just to prove he could." Well that is what he told the Judge a month later when he was bound over on a felony with his arm still in a cast.

 

He later tried to sue claiming that the exposed pistol of a uniformed officer "temped" him. This was a failure for his as well. This guy was not some street punk, but a successful business man.

 

i know it happens to cops a lot. i was an auxiliary for a large dept here years ago, most of the work i did was at the large concert stadium. no one ever tired to grab my gun, but the ladies were constantly grabbing my pr-24 i've just never heard a story where some regular guy was open carrying and some one took his gun. i'd think it'd be something the anti's would be running with, you know?

 

i think if we were able to carry here i wouldn't do it openly very much if at all, probably wouldn't carry concealed much either, but i wish we had the option.

[Azrial 1,091]

Yeah, and I guess you're not biased at all are you? You say I hate the police so I guess you are anointed with those special mind reading powers you like to accuse me of having. You can't prove any of the drivel you say about me either so I guess the standards that you apply to everyone else don't apply to you. It's just your opinion Azrial and nothing more, and your opinion along with a shiny new quarter are worth about twenty five cents to me. Like I said before it would be impossible for me to care any less what you think.

 

Off course I am biased, but that does not change the fact that you can't read minds, nor were you quoting any "facts" regarding the police.

 

My statement that you hate the police is obvious to anyone that has read your posts here for a while. You never miss the chance to show your negativity towards the profession. Now don't get me wrong, we have our problems as a group, however you like to make disparaging sweeping statements about all or most officers that implies that you know something, when the reality is that you don't. You make it seem like officers are cloned! Police are just like every other profession on the planet, we have all kinds, and a few of them are bad!

 

The difference between us, is that I am honest. You really must tell us sometime what put the bug up your ass about the Po-po! Was it a DUI? Family member get busted? It must be something to leave such a mark on you!

[Azrial 1,091]

Snoofer, I assure you, if you get into a physical confrontation with someone they will more then likely go for your gun. They will not just scuffle around with you till you get tired and decide to shoot them. If you don't belive that, well I really hope that you are right!

 

I base this on my experience in many street confrontations, your time in the auxiliary working the ball game notwithstanding

[Snoofer 138]

Snoofer, I assure you, if you get into a physical confrontation with someone they will more then likely go for your gun. They will not just scuffle around with you till you get tired and decide to shoot them. If you don't belive that, well I really hope that you are right!

 

I base this on my experience in many street confrontations, your time in the auxiliary working the ball game notwithstanding

 

for the record i didn't work at the ball game. the place i worked had an 18,500 seat capacity a held rock/rap concerts, chicago wolves games (semi pro hockey) and wwf events. it got pretty crazy sometimes. i was in at least 2 or 3 scuffles a night with drunks and people tripping their asses off never a dull moment. so i've been in my share of confrontations.

 

i hear what your saying though bro. i'm sure had i worked there long enough it could of happened eventually.

 

 

 

i got a question i wanna pm you if that's cool?

Edited March 26, 2010 by Snoofer

[DogMan 2,343]

Yeah, and I guess you're not biased at all are you? You say I hate the police so I guess you are anointed with those special mind reading powers you like to accuse me of having. You can't prove any of the drivel you say about me either so I guess the standards that you apply to everyone else don't apply to you. It's just your opinion Azrial and nothing more, and your opinion along with a shiny new quarter are worth about twenty five cents to me. Like I said before it would be impossible for me to care any less what you think.

 

Off course I am biased, but that does not change the fact that you can't read minds, nor were you quoting any "facts" regarding the police.

 

My statement that you hate the police is obvious to anyone that has read your posts here for a while. You never miss the chance to show your negativity towards the profession. Now don't get me wrong, we have our problems as a group, however you like to make disparaging sweeping statements about all or most officers that implies that you know something, when the reality is that you don't. You make it seem like officers are cloned! Police are just like every other profession on the planet, we have all kinds, and a few of them are bad!

 

The difference between us, is that I am honest. You really must tell us sometime what put the bug up your ass about the Po-po! Was it a DUI? Family member get busted? It must be something to leave such a mark on you!

 

Wow, I didn't know I had gotten so far under your skin. How long has this been bothering you? Nope, I hate to blow your theory all to hell but there are no incidents at all to speak of with me or my family. We're all clean as a whistle. Cleaner than some cops in fact. Oops, there I go again!

[Stansplace 414]

... Azrial, I am not trying to get into a fight with you here, but you are wrong about being required to present a drivers license. If he was driving he would be required. But he was walking. As far as identifying yourself. the law is says you are only requires to id yourself if you are being investigated, detained or arrested on reasonable suspician of a crime. I am not talking about acceptable practice, I am referring to what the LAW ACTUALLY STATES.

No fight needed! Let me see if I can break it down for you!

 

One, he drove to the scene and parked.

 

Two, that is not what the law states in Georgia.

 

40-5-29( b ) Failure to Exhibit License on Demand by Law Enforcement Officer

 

(a) Every licensee shall have his driver?s license in his immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle.

( b ) Every licensee shall display his license upon the demand of a law enforcement officer. A refusal to comply with such demand not only shall constitute a violation of this subsection but shall also give rise to a presumption of a violation of subsection (a) of this Code section and of Code Section 40-5-20.

© A person convicted of a violation of subsection (a) of this Code section shall be fined no more than $10.00 if he produces in court a license theretofore issued to him and valid at the time of his arrest.

 

Nothing there says that the law only applying while driving. Remember it is not your drivers license, it remains the property of that State, which is why you can be called to turn it in if it is suspended or revoked, or exhibited. I do not know about New Mexico and do not what to bother to look it up.

 

Three from the moment that he was stopped he was under Investigation.

 

Now I have a question for you, it all possible humility, why would you assume that I do not know what I am talking about here? I have been to court on this issue many times and have never lost a case where this was an element of the case.

 

I did not realize you were referring to a specific statute in Georgia. My bad, I thought we were discussing NM. However I still disagree with you about the way it went down. There is federal precedent for what I was referring to. Your only requirements by law are: if stopped while driving you must produce a valid drivers licence. If stopped while not driving, you are only required to identify yourself with your Christian name and date of birth if you are being investigated, detained, or arrested for reasonable suspician of a crime. Thats the extent of what you are REQUIRED to do in the US by law. I am not the one saying that, the US Supreme court has ruled this way.

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

If you carry a gun openly long enough someone will try to take it away.

 

Hell as a uniformed officer I have had an idiot try to jerk my pistol out of my holster at a 7-11 store from behind, "just to prove he could." Well that is what he told the Judge a month later when he was bound over on a felony with his arm still in a cast.

 

He later tried to sue claiming that the exposed pistol of a uniformed officer "temped" him. This was a failure for his as well. This guy was not some street punk, but a successful business man.

 

Tempted him??

 

I haven't had that one tried yet!

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

 

I did not realize you were referring to a specific statute in Georgia. My bad, I thought we were discussing NM. However I still disagree with you about the way it went down. There is federal precedent for what I was referring to. Your only requirements by law are: if stopped while driving you must produce a valid drivers licence. If stopped while not driving, you are only required to identify yourself with your Christian name and date of birth if you are being investigated, detained, or arrested for reasonable suspician of a crime. Thats the extent of what you are REQUIRED to do in the US by law. I am not the one saying that, the US Supreme court has ruled this way.

 

 

New Mexico seems to have a lot of cops that can't operate in the realm of reality........

[eric1785 15]

Man this thread went to hell in a hand basket!

[DogMan 2,343]

I did not realize you were referring to a specific statute in Georgia. My bad, I thought we were discussing NM. However I still disagree with you about the way it went down. There is federal precedent for what I was referring to. Your only requirements by law are: if stopped while driving you must produce a valid drivers licence. If stopped while not driving, you are only required to identify yourself with your Christian name and date of birth if you are being investigated, detained, or arrested for reasonable suspician of a crime. Thats the extent of what you are REQUIRED to do in the US by law. I am not the one saying that, the US Supreme court has ruled this way.

 

 

New Mexico seems to have a lot of cops that can't operate in the realm of reality........

 

Hey, what are you, some kind of cop hater?

[vitamink 90]

As far as the "tempted him" goes, a lot of people try to use the "attractive nuisance" defense. Essentially, "I wouldn't have done it if he didn't have it". Lawsuits are won on this all the time...Example: If you have a tree house in your yard that's not fenced off and a neighbor kid without your permission climbs up and falls out..you may be sued because your tree house attracts kids and you didn't provide enough discouragement to keep the little bastards off of your lawn (fence, gate, locks, etc).

 

And reference the open carry thing/theft thing from earlier, it happens all the time that people get jumped for their guns. I agree its best that no one know you have anything. Surprise is your best defense.

 

 

Here are some applicable laws regarding the former statements.

 

See N.M.Stat.Ann. Sec. 30-22-3 (misdemeanor offense to conceal identity "with intent to obstruct the due execution of the law or with intent to intimidate, hinder or interrupt any public officer" in the performance of his duties).

 

N.M.Stat.Ann. Sec. 30-22-1(D) (misdemeanor offense to resist, evade, or obstruct a peace officer in the lawful discharge of his duties)

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

 

New Mexico seems to have a lot of cops that can't operate in the realm of reality........

 

Hey, what are you, some kind of cop hater?

 

 

 

Let's just say that in times of emergencies, NM troopers need to stay home!

[Azrial 1,091]

... i got a question i wanna pm you if that's cool?

Of course!

 

I would also like to point out one additional problem with OC. That being if you get into a verbal confrontation with someone, or a group, and they do not attack you because you are armed. However when the police arrive they are prone to lie in my experience and claim that you pulled the firearm on them! Then it turns into a swearing contest, and the sides are usually uneven.

 

If they don't know where or if you have the pistol or what it even looks like, it makes it harder for them to concoct a believable lie.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Azrial

[Azrial 1,091]

... Wow, I didn't know I had gotten so far under your skin. How long has this been bothering you? Nope, I hate to blow your theory all to hell but there are no incidents at all to speak of with me or my family. We're all clean as a whistle. Cleaner than some cops in fact. Oops, there I go again!

No, you are no problem for me, I just like to point out every now and then how obvious you are in your hatred, whatever the reason. But I would have bet some folding money on the DUI part! I mean all sailors are drunks... now wait I just sounded like you!!!

[Azrial 1,091]

I did not realize you were referring to a specific statute in Georgia. My bad, I thought we were discussing NM. However I still disagree with you about the way it went down. There is federal precedent for what I was referring to. Your only requirements by law are: if stopped while driving you must produce a valid drivers licence. If stopped while not driving, you are only required to identify yourself with your Christian name and date of birth if you are being investigated, detained, or arrested for reasonable suspician of a crime. Thats the extent of what you are REQUIRED to do in the US by law. I am not the one saying that, the US Supreme court has ruled this way.

 

He was stopped for a reason, and that reason was that he walked into the middle of a traffic stop. It really does not matter if he was armed or not, but I am sure that the fact that he was would be considered by a court. Also keep in mind that he drove up and parked and then walked over to the stop. So, even in New Mexico, and I did look up their law as well, his DL was subject to inspection.

 

However, the officer was otherwise well within his lawful capacity to demand inspection of the citizen's ID, Driver's License or not. Once he walked into the middle of that traffic stop the officer had reasonable suspicion regardless of OC. After that I would have insisted on ID, or I would have effected an arrest for failure to compile with a lawful order. Frankly I am surprized that neither of those officers knew this.

 

Frankly, rights are also responsibilities. Freedom of speech is not the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater! This guy is just a dickhead looking for trouble, not a crusader looking to protect the 2nd Amendment. We could do without You-Tube Attention Whores like him!

[DogMan 2,343]

... Wow, I didn't know I had gotten so far under your skin. How long has this been bothering you? Nope, I hate to blow your theory all to hell but there are no incidents at all to speak of with me or my family. We're all clean as a whistle. Cleaner than some cops in fact. Oops, there I go again!

No, you are no problem for me, I just like to point out every now and then how obvious you are in your hatred, whatever the reason. But I would have bet some folding money on the DUI part! I mean all sailors are drunks... now wait I just sounded like you!!!

 

Well, if it's so obvious I'm not sure why you would need to point it out . Yeah, plenty of drunk sailors alright, I just don't happen to be one of them. Oh, this has been all over the news lately. Thought you might know the guy. Cheers.Shit faced on duty

Edited March 27, 2010 by DogMan

[Snoofer 138]

... i got a question i wanna pm you if that's cool?

Of course!

 

I would also like to point out one additional problem with OC. That being if you get into a verbal confrontation with someone, or a group, and they do not attack you because you are armed. However when the police arrive they are prone to lie in my experience and claim that you pulled the firearm on them! Then it turns into a swearing contest, and the sides are usually uneven.

 

If they don't know where or if you have the pistol or what it even looks like, it makes it harder for them to concoct a believable lie.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

that's a good point.

 

 

pm sent

[Paulyski 2,227]

I mean all sailors are drunks...

YES WE ARE!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGqMJdi8zqA

 

I was lucky enough to be 17 with a Military ID & full access to Tijuana...

I speak form experience.

 

For the record, I'm a skimmer, Pops has the fish fighting over the trashcan though.

[thehopping1 105]

OC is a way of life for me. My body language changes as well as my attitude while carrying openly. I would not get into a confrontation while carrying a firearm in the first place. I have been close but for the most part, you put yourself in all situations. Also most people don't even notice that I am carrying until I turn my back to them and I am always cautious of my surroundings. I may not be trained in proper firearm retention but I don't believe any one is taking my gun from my side. Plus like stated earlier, my OWB holsters have retention locks and the trigger can not be accessed with out removing the firearm. By the time some one figures out how to take it out I will have already stabbed them with my knife while fearing for my life.

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

Well, if it's so obvious I'm not sure why you would need to point it out . Yeah, plenty of drunk sailors alright, I just don't happen to be one of them. Oh, this has been all over the news lately. Thought you might know the guy. Cheers.x x x x x x x

 

 

 

 

NPR????

 

 

We may have to make you turn in your Man Card!

[Bayoupiper 738]

OC is a way of life for me. My body language changes as well as my attitude while carrying openly. I would not get into a confrontation while carrying a firearm in the first place. I have been close but for the most part, you put yourself in all situations. Also most people don't even notice that I am carrying until I turn my back to them and I am always cautious of my surroundings. I may not be trained in proper firearm retention but I don't believe any one is taking my gun from my side. Plus like stated earlier, my OWB holsters have retention locks and the trigger can not be accessed with out removing the firearm. By the time some one figures out how to take it out I will have already stabbed them with my knife while fearing for my life.

 

 

 

 

I do hope you are right.

 

But police officers have their guns taken away from them and they have triple, or even quad, retention holsters and training.......

[DogMan 2,343]

Well, if it's so obvious I'm not sure why you would need to point it out . Yeah, plenty of drunk sailors alright, I just don't happen to be one of them. Oh, this has been all over the news lately. Thought you might know the guy. Cheers.x x x x x x x

 

 

 

 

NPR????

 

 

We may have to make you turn in your Man Card!

 

Well, doggonit Will, I could have picked from any number of news sources for the link. I guess I forgot to choose the one that is the most "Manly". If I promise to read the last 12 issues of "Guns and Ammo" from cover to cover can I get probation instead?

[camon 233]

 

I can not speak for New Mexico but his guy would be in violation of Georgia Law when:

 

A: He walked up into the the middle of the Traffic Stop the second time after being told to stand clear by the officer. This is Obstruction.

 

There you cops go again, making stuff up I saw him walk up to the scene and be told to leave the scene and he did.

 

B. When he failed to present ID when requested by the Officer. "Failure to exhibit Drivers License on demand."

That is the case here locally as well, or so I'm told by police. Maybe I should double check on that.

 

Walking around looking for trouble is not standing up for your rights, it is being a dumbass.

 

This I totally agree with. Watching it again, it looks like he is looking for a situation to get involved in. I don't think people should go around looking for trouble with the police, their job is hard enough as it is. But then again, I don't think the police should be harassing this guy for carrying a firearm.

 

 

I don't understand how people can be so disassociated from firearms that the mire sight of one frightens them. It would be a totally different situation if they where involved in a firearm related situation that was traumatizing, but I highly doubt this is the case most of the time. I will continue to open carry whenever I feel the need or desire. I just hope the gun hating hippies stay the fuck out of Az.

 

 

In AZ you are not required to provide ID unless you A) are being detained, or B ) are Concealed Carrying with permit.

 

However, you are required to provide your name.

Edited March 27, 2010 by camon

[Bayoupiper 738]

 

 

Well, doggonit Will, I could have picked from any number of news sources for the link. I guess I forgot to choose the one that is the most "Manly". If I promise to read the last 12 issues of "Guns and Ammo" from cover to cover can I get probation instead?

 

 

 

We'll let it go this time.....................

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

 

I can not speak for New Mexico but his guy would be in violation of Georgia Law when:

 

A: He walked up into the the middle of the Traffic Stop the second time after being told to stand clear by the officer. This is Obstruction.

 

There you cops go again, making stuff up I saw him walk up to the scene and be told to leave the scene and he did.

 

B. When he failed to present ID when requested by the Officer. "Failure to exhibit Drivers License on demand."

That is the case here locally as well, or so I'm told by police. Maybe I should double check on that.

 

Walking around looking for trouble is not standing up for your rights, it is being a dumbass.

 

This I totally agree with. Watching it again, it looks like he is looking for a situation to get involved in. I don't think people should go around looking for trouble with the police, their job is hard enough as it is. But then again, I don't think the police should be harassing this guy for carrying a firearm.

 

 

I don't understand how people can be so disassociated from firearms that the mire sight of one frightens them. It would be a totally different situation if they where involved in a firearm related situation that was traumatizing, but I highly doubt this is the case most of the time. I will continue to open carry whenever I feel the need or desire. I just hope the gun hating hippies stay the fuck out of Az.

 

 

In AZ you are not required to provide ID unless you A) are being detained, or B ) are Concealed Carrying with permit.

 

However, you are required to provide your name.

 

 

Having spent 4 wonderful years being stationed in Arizona I can attest to this. I have also been "told" that if the firearms IS NOT loaded it is illegal. I spent about 30 mins researching just now and couldn't find anything....Arizonian's up!!! What say you???

[Stansplace 414]

Well, doggonit Will, I could have picked from any number of news sources for the link. I guess I forgot to choose the one that is the most "Manly". If I promise to read the last 12 issues of "Guns and Ammo" from cover to cover can I get probation instead?

 

 

 

We'll let it go this time.....................

 

 

 

Don't speak for me on this one. Not only does he have to read the "Guns and Ammo" issues, I think he should be forced to shoot up a lot of his expensive ammo on some lowly milk jugs. Just so he really feels the pain for posting a link to NPR. NPR sucks!!!!!!!!! If he does it again I will associate him with Bigsal from then on out.