Hunting with a saiga

[t3mac21 1]

Hey ya'll, longtime reader of this forum but not a saiga owner at this time. I'm looking to get a semi-auto rifle as sort of a general purpose rifle that I can use to hunt predators, zap occassional varmint, and maybe even take a white tail or two. I have plenty of bolt guns and a shotgun or two but, I'd like this gun to be able to fill the HD role as well if need be.

 

 

I'm cross shopping the saiga (in x39 or .223) with the Ruger Ranch in the same calibers. I've read A LOT of negative feedback about the ruger, which is interesting to me. I've shot one quite a few times and it wasn't nearly as bad as the internet is portraying it, suppossedly since they re-tooled it, it's even better. The big draw for the Mini-14/30 is that I would have no problems taking it with me in the woods or on a hunt, I wouldn't get an eyebrow lifted taking it out of the trunk. I also like their looks

 

 

Then we have the Saiga, which, obviously is going to be dead reliable no matter what. I don't think I'd convert it, it would really get some cross-eyed looks if I pulled out an all black "AK" to go hunting. I could however change the handguard and make it accept AK mags, just to keep at home, and then throw a scope on, a sling....and maybe a nicer quality stock.

 

 

 

 

IDK, I'm just thinking out loud here. The frigging new mini's are like 600-800 dollars....I could get 2 saigas AND optics for that!

 

 

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

Convince me

[superA 289]

Plus with the Saiga you get to use AK mags, big plus.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

If it's legal in your state to hunt with, bring it! Don't let a bunch of stupid Fudds ruin your gun owning.

[t3mac21 1]

It is legal as long as I have a 5 round magazine, it can't be a 10/20/30 with just 5 in it, regardless of whether it's internal or external/removable. I mean, if I get a bullet guide and do a little work it will accept regular AK mags and the saiga 5 rounder without issue, right? I'll just take the 5 for hunting, the others for the range and home.

 

I'll just keep it stock and throw a nice scope on it. I'll get a bipod for when I need it if the one I have for another rifle doesn't fit.

 

Maybee and nicer "sporter" stock and foregrip. It's gonna be a little heavy regardless if I choose .223 or x39, no big deal though.

 

 

Man, do I like the looks of a wooden stocked Mini-14 hogue target model though.

 

 

But, I could always convert the saiga in the future...

 

 

 

 

They both have gone 1 moa but are more 2-3 moa with the scope, I wonder which is more accurate though, most reviews I've seen on youtube and such say the saiga..

[Frankyoz 15]

Good job checking your local laws, the Saiga 5 rounder will work fine with a bullet guide. I have 2 and never had any issues out of either of them. If your going after piggies I vote for the x39, its what i use on them and it works. I use my .223 for dogs, i say this because the x39 usualy does a very good job at putting them down quickly. I have seen them take .223 and still have a bit of fight in them and run for a bit before they drop. I use x39 HP's with good results I havent personaly used any of my .223 HP's and doubt I will unless my saiga is down and I have to.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I know there are at least a couple of 5 round mags out there Surefire makes one iirc that would be my choice. Mini-14 I wouldn't wish on anyone outside of the ATF. Never heard of Pistol grips making a rifle illegal for hunting but its a weird world. I really like the Remington Express for hunting/SD loads, I know it will take a boar down no problem. I would keep the range down below 150 yards but that's rarely a problem anyway. Having said that I much prefer my 308 but that's a preference nothing more due to the availability and sheer deadliness of specialized bullets for the round.

[t3mac21 1]

Blazed - Thanks. The varmint would include groundhogs,racoons,possum but it would mainly be a coyote gun. It's perfectly legal to use .223 for whitetail here and ranges tend to be relatively close so I wouldn't have a confidence issue with either x39 or .223 but, like I said, coyotes for the most part and plinking/HD. General purpose of sorts.

 

 

 

 

 

Rhodes - That's the sort of review I've been reading of the mini-14 but, I've personally never seen that with my own eyes. They recently revamped the mini14, the problem as stated by ruger was the machines used to mill the mini had been used for 30+ years so they fixed that issue and tuned the rifle a bit. The pistol grip thing isn't a law, it's just questionable looking IMHO.

 

 

Does anyone here really hunt with saiga? I know the 5.45 has taken deer...

[superA 289]

If it's legal in your state to hunt with, bring it! Don't let a bunch of stupid Fudds ruin your gun owning.

 

 

 

:lolol: He's right, I can't hardly think of a better 0-150 yards rifle for hunting. It's plenty accurate, quick second shot if needed, reliable in any weather.

[eric1785 15]

Is it still ok to hunt with because you could easily have a loaded one in the chamber and 5 im the mag? They might bitch about that.

[zulu3006 0]

I'd either upgrade the sights or get some type of optic. I've got an arsenal AK, and put the mojo micro click sights on it. Definately helps sight picture. XS sights and Kreb's Customs also make sights, depending on what your looking for. Stock ak sights, especially the rear sight, isn't much to behold

[Frankyoz 15]

If you are going to be going after small varmits and predators more so than Deer and pigs, I would lean towards the .223. I use my AR for small game for two reasons one its more accurate than my AK and lets face it an inch or two makes a huge diffrence when your taget is less tha 8in big. Secondly I need an excuse to justify my owning a AR lol. Honestly though when I'm hunting predators its a toss up between the 2. However the day I come accross a bobcat its going to be a sad day if I have the x39 cuz I'd like to mount a nice sized cat for the house. Anyway other than that scenario it depends on my mood. If you plan on hunting large size game as well such as Deer, hogs etc then get the x39 it will let you play around with everything with confidence that your not setting yourself up for failure with the larger game. I would let that hold you over until you decide wether you want to get into the small varmit game since its a whole different animal.

[NocSniper 0]

i was gonna get the ruger mini, but decided to get the saiga instead.. and love it..

Edited March 27, 2010 by NocSniper

[t3mac21 1]

Thanks for the advice guys. If I go for the saiga, it'll be with optics and x39 for sure.

 

I really do like the looks of the mini though, it's twice the price. It's more likely that I'll end up with the saiga and maybe the mini at a later time. the last season I shot my .17hmr a lot. It was great, super accurate so, headshots on anything like squirrel,possum,groundhog,raccoon out to 200 yards, which would be the longest I'd encounter, were easy.

[Donkismash 81]

Thanks for the advice guys. If I go for the saiga, it'll be with optics and x39 for sure.

 

I really do like the looks of the mini though, it's twice the price. It's more likely that I'll end up with the saiga and maybe the mini at a later time. the last season I shot my .17hmr a lot. It was great, super accurate so, headshots on anything like squirrel,possum,groundhog,raccoon out to 200 yards, which would be the longest I'd encounter, were easy.

if you put aside Rugers stance on the AWB the Mini 14 is not a bad rifle....reliable and accurate enough but IMO WAY over priced

[jim4jet 0]

Check out these photos to see my in-progress hunting rifle.. still needs a sling and some paint on muzzle brake.

Doesn't look much like an AK assault.. The mag is a 10-round SureFire that can be cut off and made shorter.

Don't know how many rounds it holds then, but it helps the PC hunting "look" of the weapon.

(See the mag close-up, full 10-round, but see the line part way up, that's where it can be cut and re-use bottom plate)

 

As for which rifle to get, I've got both and it's a tossup for me... I really like both of them in their own way.

- Mini-14 (newer model, stainless, synth stock, .223) (great reliable weapon, never misses a beat for me)

- Saiga 7.62x39 (16" barrel, wood furniture by SaigaStock) (also great and reliable)

 

The Mini with synth stock is quite a bit lighter, somewhat smaller feel, and has less recoil.

The Saiga with this wood stock is a bit on the heavy side, but I plan on hollowing out wood in several places that won't show or matter strength-wise.

For non-scope sights I'm liking the stock setup on the Mini -- peep hole for rear.

So I modified the Saiga to take a Skinner rear peep sight on homemade mount, and removed the factory rear sight.

 

For me both rifles would be good out to about 100 yrds for hunting, both seem about the same accuracy

== 4" groups with occasional flyer,

but my eyes aren't the best either.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2010 by jugger-not

[docfury 1]

Gosh, this will be the second time I post a Nutnfancy video, its going to start looking like im a nutnfancy whore:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy#p/u/0/8Fk84KLiaa4

 

Nutnfancy loves the mini-14, but its no secret hes a big Ruger fan. He also loves the Arsenal Saigas. Just throwing the video out for reference on its abilities, he makes contact with steel at 175 yards fairly reliably.

[t3mac21 1]

Jugger not, thanks for posting man! That's exactly what I was looking for! That looks great and that honestly wouldn't get a second look. I'm not too worried about the weight, the places I hunt are mainly accessible by road and then a short 1-1.5 mile hike in. I was going to ask about wooden stock options, I know I saw the .308 version with them. Looks pretty darn good and still remains easily convertible. I like that.

 

 

Dr fury - It's funny, I was just watching a bit of that video the other day. I really wish Nutnfancy would just shut up and shoot sometimes lol, he sure carries on a lot in his videos. It's a good video though. He sure is a "nut" though lol!

[chevyman097 2,579]

I hunt with mine hell ya! IN Texas there is no laws about magazine capacity and hunting. If I wanted I could roll out the 75 round drum haha:super:

 

But I dont go there lmao. I usually take a 10 rounder for deer hunting.

 

I do take the 30s though when Im out for the hogs, you never know what a hog hunt can turn into.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I lost interest in NF when his ego got bigger than his common sense. The only Ruger I will ever own is the 10/22 and then only because its easier to work on than the marlin. I will never forget their betrayal of the firearms community. I assumed you were going to use optics but didnt ask, but that easy just get good optics and a good low profile mount and you will love it. As for sights I lean way over to the Krebs keeping the rsb range adjustment you lose on the Mojo. Seems they are out of stock at Krebs for a while, Both are run by good people so have fun.

 

The 20 Tanker mags are much easier in brush than the 30s that seem to snag every blasted bush you come near. If I ever need more than 20 rounds then the hawgs is shootin back. Could say the same about tens as just dont see them attacking in formation But having more than five aint a bad idea if you can get away with it.

[555JM 10]

I dunno, mac. Varmits are small and, like coyotes, can show up at any range. Two issues with the Saiga for that:

1) They're generally not super accurate. 2MOA is considered quite good, even with the .223. I'm convinced that the reciprocating mass of the bolt and its carrier throws the aim off slightly in both the Saiga and the Mini-14/30. That stuff starts moving before the bullet leaves the muzzle, which makes good follow-through difficult.

2) With optics mounted, the sight line is quite high. This translates into a Point of Aim being significantly different than Point of Impact at ranges other than the sight-in distance. Since range is hard to judge afield and, as said above, varmits show up at any range, you'll have problems making precise shots on small critters.

 

The Mini-14 shares problem number 1). The new 580 series is supposed to be much better, but I haven't seen it with mine. I have both an old 187 series and a 580. Both are reliable, neither is a tack-driver or anything close to it. I like 'em both for what they are, though. Never understood why people hate 'em.

 

If you're serious about killing varmits instead of educating them, I'd get a conventional bolt gun in .223 or .22-250. Maybe a new Savage 25 Light Varmiter or maybe a used Rem. 700 or 788. You don't need fancy to kill whistle-pigs, only accurate. With the low sight line of the bolt gun, range estimation won't be nearly so critical.

 

Then, for larger targets like two legged varmits, hogs, and deer, buy a 7.62x39 Saiga with the money you saved by buying a used bolt gun. You'll have both bases covered with tools suitable for the job.

 

Biggest advantage I see for an unconverted Saiga over a Mini-14/30 is that the Saiga will shoot anything and the chrome lined bore will put up with neglect and abuse. With Minis costing as much as they do, you can't afford to neglect them.

Bob

[t3mac21 1]

Thanks again for all the insight guys, very helpful. I'm sorry I don't have time to respond to each of you individually right now, I'm about to head out the door and just wanted to check the forum. I do however already have a few bolt guns, and have been shooting varmints and such with .22lr,.17hmr,.22 hornet and various shotgun loads. When I get to go and see my father I have access to his hunting rifles as well.

 

It's a tough decision for sure. I like .223 but for some reason, I can't see myself having a Russian saiga chambered in that when X39 is cheaper and more powerful while being just as accurrate out of the same rifle.

 

 

But, like I said, it's legal to hunt deer with any centerfire round in my state as long as you keep the magazine restrictions in mind. We don't have very many hogs here but the coytotes are large and plentiful.

 

the varmints like groundhogs/coons/possums and such would just be targets of opportunity if I take the rifle out hunting and don't run across the type of game I'm looking for. If I was to hunt them specifically, I'd choose one of my bolt guns or a shotgun depending on where I'm going.

 

 

 

The saiga uncoverted but with optics/handguard/bullet guide/etc seems to be just a handy all purpose rifle and that's kinda what I'm looking for.

 

I do love the Mini's though, I'm sure I'll end up with one eventually, but I think it's getting obvious which direction I'm leaning

 

 

 

 

thnks guys

[billbrasky 0]

they compare favorably in terms of accuracy, but given all the accessories for the AKs, cheap surplus mags, and lower price to begin with, i think one has to go with the saiga.

 

I have a 7.62x39 and a 223 both converted. I would definately take a mini 14 off my uncles hands if he wanted to give me one of his, but i am not really tempted to buy one.

 

If you want to hunt with 223 and not raise eyebrows, well i dunno .... the old guys need to lighten up. Or maybe get one of the remmington r15 that are all camo with a hunter pitched ad campaign.

 

 

 

thats not much more than a mini 14, and you can use all the ar15 accessories and nice Pmags.

[GregM1 241]

i have a saiga in both 223 and 762. both were bought with hunting intentions. both are accurate enough for my needs. instead of the surefire 5 round mags, which are kinda pricey, there are also 7.62 chinese 5 rounders which can be bought fairly cheap if you use a bullet guide.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

t2mac21: "Convince me"?

 

If you're a Fudd at heart, (sounds like you have a bunch of friends who probably supported the '94 "AW" Ban ), and want a pos Mini-14 or Mini-30, then by all means buy one.

 

We don't get any kind of kick-back from RAAC, Izhmash, or anyone else if you make the objectively superior choice and buy a Saiga.

Edited April 28, 2010 by post-apocalyptic