Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Klassy Kalashnikov

Front Sight Block ( FSB ) Swap / Removal Tutorial

Recommended Posts

I don't have a problem keeping rust out of mine with corrosive ammo. It's kind of a pain in the ass, and takes a little more effort since mine cannot unscrew, but it does keep clean. Just takes a little more effort and concentrated spraying if it is permanently attached.

 

How do you know it's not rusting like crazy inside the expansion chamber? Do you shoot surplus ammo? Could you give me any tips on how to clean mine if I have it permanently installed?

 

Thanks!

 

I don't know for certain that it's not, but I give that brake a hell of a douching with windex so hopefully little, if any, salt remains. I don't really have any specific pointers, just a good wash down of anywhere in the gun forward of the bolt carrier with water.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem keeping rust out of mine with corrosive ammo. It's kind of a pain in the ass, and takes a little more effort since mine cannot unscrew, but it does keep clean. Just takes a little more effort and concentrated spraying if it is permanently attached.

 

How do you know it's not rusting like crazy inside the expansion chamber? Do you shoot surplus ammo? Could you give me any tips on how to clean mine if I have it permanently installed?

 

Thanks!

 

I don't know for certain that it's not, but I give that brake a hell of a douching with windex so hopefully little, if any, salt remains. I don't really have any specific pointers, just a good wash down of anywhere in the gun forward of the bolt carrier with water.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here you go

 

post-21696-12732891959444_thumb.jpg

 

Dig your setup. Thanks for posting. It really helps out newbies like me figure this stuff out. As for my question(s),

 

:How did you put the ultimack on your rifle?

 

do you know of any links that have tutorial on how to remove gas tube and install the ultimack? Sorry not to seem lazy, just want to do it right the first time.

 

 

Does it even require a tutorial?

Thanks again

 

Greg

Edited by AZG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here you go

 

post-21696-12732891959444_thumb.jpg

 

Dig your setup. Thanks for posting. It really helps out newbies like me figure this stuff out. As for my question(s),

 

:How did you put the ultimack on your rifle?

 

do you know of any links that have tutorial on how to remove gas tube and install the ultimack? Sorry not to seem lazy, just want to do it right the first time.

 

 

Does it even require a tutorial?

Thanks again

 

Greg

 

Thanks a lot for all the compliments guys.

 

Ultimak installation is easy, to remove the gas tube, just field strip the rifle (make sure the bolt carrier is removed) then using the slot on the factory cleaning kit, pair of pliers, or your fingers if it's not too stiff, tilt the lever on the right side of the rear sight block upwards and pull the gas tube out. To install the Ultimak it will just slip right into place and then the 2 brackets provided with it just get screwed in, it clamps to the barrel and then you just close the lever again. I would recommend using blue loctite on the clamp screws for the Ultimak.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here you go

 

post-21696-12732891959444_thumb.jpg

 

Dig your setup. Thanks for posting. It really helps out newbies like me figure this stuff out. As for my question(s),

 

:How did you put the ultimack on your rifle?

 

do you know of any links that have tutorial on how to remove gas tube and install the ultimack? Sorry not to seem lazy, just want to do it right the first time.

 

 

Does it even require a tutorial?

Thanks again

 

Greg

 

Thanks a lot for all the compliments guys.

 

Ultimak installation is easy, to remove the gas tube, just field strip the rifle (make sure the bolt carrier is removed) then using the slot on the factory cleaning kit, pair of pliers, or your fingers if it's not too stiff, tilt the lever on the right side of the rear sight block upwards and pull the gas tube out. To install the Ultimak it will just slip right into place and then the 2 brackets provided with it just get screwed in, it clamps to the barrel and then you just close the lever again. I would recommend using blue loctite on the clamp screws for the Ultimak.

 

Right on! thanks for the reply. I bought a 7.62x39 that didnt come with a booklet, cleaning kit, or anything really last week and so I was clueless until my sporter x39 got here yesterday with the manual. Did some reading and know exactly what to do now. I appreciate your help.

 

Thanks

AZG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey AZG, where in 123 AZ are you. I am in CG.

 

CK: On the original FSB, does the barrel stop at the muzzle tube/ FSB joint or does it go all the way through? I am afraid to cut too deep into the muzzle tube and damage the barrel. If you have any pics of the barrel after it is removed, that would be greatly appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey AZG, where in 123 AZ are you. I am in CG.

 

CK: On the original FSB, does the barrel stop at the muzzle tube/ FSB joint or does it go all the way through? I am afraid to cut too deep into the muzzle tube and damage the barrel. If you have any pics of the barrel after it is removed, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Yes, if you grind too deep you will cut into the barrel as it runs through both the block and shroud. The first two pictures show the barrel and can see a slight "kiss" at the edges. I have done 2 more since then and with a little practice, I did one that barely left any scratches on the barrel underneath at all. The best thing to do is just go very slow, cut a small line through and every couple passes, smack it with a hammer to see if it's ready to move yet. A little "kiss" on the barrel is fine but yeah big grooves would probably be very bad.

 

I normally use the Dremel re-inforced cut off wheels, however, I did one with the thin ceramic cutoff wheels, they wear out much faster than the re-inforced ones so you'll need a bunch more, but having the thinner wheel also helps to reduce the size of any incisions you make on the barrel (if any).

 

Alternatively, the dimples are what actually hold it on. If you have a hydraulic press, you can drill into the dimples, then try and press, rinse and repeat though that also runs a risk of drilling too deep so either way, gotta be cautious and go slow is all. For the drill/press removal method there is a good thread in the Conversion forum of a guy who did his conversion that way.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey AZG, where in 123 AZ are you. I am in CG.

 

CK: On the original FSB, does the barrel stop at the muzzle tube/ FSB joint or does it go all the way through? I am afraid to cut too deep into the muzzle tube and damage the barrel. If you have any pics of the barrel after it is removed, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

CG=Casa Grande? not too familiar with phoenix area. Im near the parker area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey AZG, where in 123 AZ are you. I am in CG.

 

CK: On the original FSB, does the barrel stop at the muzzle tube/ FSB joint or does it go all the way through? I am afraid to cut too deep into the muzzle tube and damage the barrel. If you have any pics of the barrel after it is removed, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

CG=Casa Grande? not too familiar with phoenix area. Im near the parker area.

 

 

I like how you replaced the FSB bu not the GB, it seems the GB is the last remaining peice for a full conversion out of the realm of the average tinkerer and yours looks great with the factory handgard + ultimak.

 

One thing I want to make sure I understand is that the pins are in grooves cut into the barrel woth the drill or du the just hold on the new FSB by fiction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem keeping rust out of mine with corrosive ammo. It's kind of a pain in the ass, and takes a little more effort since mine cannot unscrew, but it does keep clean. Just takes a little more effort and concentrated spraying if it is permanently attached.

 

How do you know it's not rusting like crazy inside the expansion chamber? Do you shoot surplus ammo? Could you give me any tips on how to clean mine if I have it permanently installed?

 

Thanks!

Why do you need to weld your muzzle brake on your FSB? where you live? Do i need to weld my muzzle brake into my FSB too like yours coz, i live in illinois? Edited by mcmar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I just don't know about this method, wouldn't you want to drill through the dimples with the proper sized drill bit to give natches in the barrel for the FSB pins?

Then you dremel off the FSB, and you would be guaranteed to line up the new FSB because using actual pins they would only go thru where the slots are? Am I nuts thinking this?

 

I like this idea. My question is, are the Bulgarian and the Saiga FSB's the same length? It looks like the Saiga FSB is a little longer... of course I don't have a Bulgy to compare it to, however. What size is the bit to drill through? 3/32?

Edited by cobravenom39

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem keeping rust out of mine with corrosive ammo. It's kind of a pain in the ass, and takes a little more effort since mine cannot unscrew, but it does keep clean. Just takes a little more effort and concentrated spraying if it is permanently attached.

 

How do you know it's not rusting like crazy inside the expansion chamber? Do you shoot surplus ammo? Could you give me any tips on how to clean mine if I have it permanently installed?

 

Thanks!

Why do you need to weld your muzzle brake on your FSB? where you live? Do i need to weld my muzzle brake into my FSB too like yours coz, i live in illinois?

 

I had to weld the brake on due to my state's laws, you would not need to do that in IL.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I just don't know about this method, wouldn't you want to drill through the dimples with the proper sized drill bit to give natches in the barrel for the FSB pins?

Then you dremel off the FSB, and you would be guaranteed to line up the new FSB because using actual pins they would only go thru where the slots are? Am I nuts thinking this?

 

I like this idea. My question is, are the Bulgarian and the Saiga FSB's the same length? It looks like the Saiga FSB is a little longer... of course I don't have a Bulgy to compare it to, however. What size is the bit to drill through? 3/32?

 

yes, the Saiga FSB is just slightly longer than the Bulgarian FSB. You can either ram the Bulgarian flush and touch up paint at the back, or ram the Bulgarian block flush with the rear of where the Saiga's FSB was, either way works.

 

I use 1/8 bits for pins now, this rifle I did with a 3/32 and my other I used 1/8.

 

Alternatively to cutting the block off, yeah you could drill out the dimples and press off the FSB. However I have never done that method so I am not sure on the specifics of what size to use, etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sticky'n this. I just did mine and should probably contribute w/ pics I took...

 

 

Basically, you need patience first. You aren't going to hack through this real fast or else your going to cut the shit out of your barrel. I took my time and still thought I had cut into my barrel bad but as soon as I popped the FSB off it was surprisingly a pretty damn good job I did. I also was going to cut the shroud off the end so I could betetr see where the barrel starts and the block ends but it doesn't really make a difference, just keep an eye on the end of the muzzle to check.

 

I went down one side right along the divets like Classy did, with a grinder to get through the bulk of the steel while being VERY carefull to check and check again the depth of the cut. Then I took a dremel cutting wheel and finished it with that. You want to cut almost through (leave like a 32nd" or 64th" of steel) and then I whacked it with a hammer like he said to - but I didn't use a sledge, just a regular hammer. The cut I made was deep enough to make a longitudinal fracture along itself.

 

DSCN3016.jpg

 

 

 

This is not enough though, to only cut one side, because it won't budge unless you get the dimples on the other side drilled out or cut through. I decided to just drill them on the other side like I should've done in the first place on the first. Then I cut between them with the grinder (AGAIN taking care to not go too deep) and whacked it, this time it spun free.

 

DSCN3018.jpg

 

 

 

The holes go farther into the barrel than I expected so I didn't feel that bad about knicking the barrel a tad with the dremel. You don't even see it once you put the new FSB on anyway, and the Bulgy ones are almost as long as the Russian ones, mine was maybe a quarter" shorter. Not a big deal.

 

DSCN3020.jpg

 

 

 

Here's another veiw, it's the other side I cut along w/ the grinder and dremel first.

DSCN3019.jpg

 

 

 

 

MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS: Wrap your rifle in tinfoil if you are using the grinder because sparks fly everywhere. Usually I cut pipe @ work and am not used to being clean about it, but I had a rag at first covering the barrel from melted pieces of metal flinging everywhere and it caught on fire. If you care about your barrel being pretty, wrap it up!

 

DSCN3021.jpg

 

Also, protect your crown. I stuck a patch-jig-thingy in mine with an oversized patch to plug the barrel and help protect the crown, especially while pounding the new sightblock on.

 

I took a string and indexed my front sight with the rear just as Classy says, (worked pretty good actually) and then I put the stock on and adjusted it with a RUBBER mallet tapping it slightly to get it perfect while leveling the rifle and looking down the irons.

 

 

BTW, cutting oil and WD-40 for the FSB is your friend!

 

 

QUESTION:

I haven't put my pins in yet, I have a Bulgy FSB and it pins in with 2 pins. Before I do it, I should use the closest size smaller to the pin to drill the barrel with, right? So it will be real tight when I drive them in? Won't it be loose if I use the same size bit that the pins are?

 

EDIT: What's in between 3/32 and 1/8 - it's 7/64? Whatever it is, that's what I used. Very tricky to drill into the side of a round barrel on that kind of angle but keept he drill plumbed up and you should get it perfect like I did in the first pin. The second went a little goofy but not too bad. Just use a hammer and punch to drive the pins in. DONE.

Edited by Kalashniklown
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great post CK. I just picked up two Bulgy FSB and zig zag brakes (one for the IZ132 and one for the 240). Gonne be attempting this in the near future

 

All the rest of the guys adding info/tips and pics along the way, is a great help too! :super:

Edited by Mullet Man
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome! Great pics Kalashniklown thanks for adding.

 

Before I do it, I should use the closest size smaller to the pin to drill the barrel with, right? So it will be real tight when I drive them in? Won't it be loose if I use the same size bit that the pins are?

 

It all depends what you use for pins. When using hard steel pins, you want them to be slightly larger than the hole, as pins of the same size will be loose. Also, holes drilled with a hand drill, even extremely neat ones, are slightly tapered with the top of the hole being wider, due to the drill wobbling during drilling. By tapered I mean on a .001" scale, not enough to see but enough that the pins will be loose.

 

That is why I like to use soft steel, like nails or steel rods from Home Depot/Lowes, since they are soft, you can buy ones the same size as the hole, pound them in and then peen them with a hammer, they will bulge and swell inside the hole and that point, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Edited by Classy Kalashnikov
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When using hard steel pins, you want them to be slightly larger than the hole, as pins of the same size will be loose.

 

Yea, that's what I figured. I do things like this on other stuff so I assumed this wouldn't be any differnt. It's the contour of the barrel that got me concerned.

 

I drove hard steel (HARD) pins in it that came with the FSB I got (probably from Bulgy factory then). The punch I used even mushroomed a little on the end from tapping these things in, lol.

 

They aren't going anywhere, and I even attempted to stake them on with a center-punch but really they aren't ever going to come out again. Might still be a good idea for anyone else...

 

 

Thanks again for this thread.

Edited by Kalashniklown
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you explain a little more about what the indexing process is? i have my new frontsight block installed and it looks pretty straight on vertical. is there much more to it?

i still need to pin or nail it in place, meaning i need to drill out the barrel correct? The holes in the fsb are already drilled but the barrel is not groved or drilled out in those spots. should i shoot it first before that?

http://img703.imageshack.us/i/img0497l.jpg/

Edited by sharkforce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I totally forgot to post but my FSB had no holes for the pins like everyone else. Mine has a tapped hole at the bottom of the FSB in the middle of the threaded area which is threaded to accept a hold down screw. I ended up mouhting the FSB where i wanted then drilling partially into the barrel and making my own set screw then put the muzzle brake that will not let the screw back out.

 

Anyone else have one like this?

Edited by Zeroselect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

 

alright but let me ask again, can i shoot it before pinning the fsb on the barrel? will it come loose or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

 

alright but let me ask again, can i shoot it before pinning the fsb on the barrel? will it come loose or something?

 

Don't shoot it without securing it. Even though it will be very tight on there after shooting 2 magazines the barrel will get hot and the FSB will be loose. I had mine fly off and had to have a cease fire to have the range officer recover it.

 

Best bet is to get a laser bore sighter and get it as close as you can before pinning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

 

alright but let me ask again, can i shoot it before pinning the fsb on the barrel? will it come loose or something?

 

Don't shoot it without securing it. Even though it will be very tight on there after shooting 2 magazines the barrel will get hot and the FSB will be loose. I had mine fly off and had to have a cease fire to have the range officer recover it.

 

Best bet is to get a laser bore sighter and get it as close as you can before pinning.

alright then i will wait for my boresighter to arrive in the mail. :ded:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

 

how hard is it to drill the barrel with a hand drill with the bulgarian fsb already drilled? I'm not sure how its going to be possible to keep the drill going straight with the curved barrel surface. :cryss:

 

Pictures:

 

img0516w.th.jpg

img0514r.th.jpg

img0515ir.th.jpg

img0512z.th.jpg

img0513c.th.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a straightedge, a laser, or just string from the rear sight leaf to the front sight post (what I did). Get it PERFECT if you have to tap it lightly use a rubber mallet or a wrapped hammer and quadruple check looking down the sights. You can fine adjust the point of impact with the front sight post later with an AK frontsight-adjustment tool.

 

And, *some* Saigas have a weird cant slightly to the rear-sight. I don't know if it's a trunion issue or the sight-leaf itself but from the experiences of others, this apparently doesn't affect the point of impact of the bullet since the notch for lining up the rear sight post is straight anyway. If you have the new Legion ones imported just recently they should be straight anyway, as mine was.

 

Just slowly drill the barrel. You aren't going to get the correct size pin in the holes without removing the barrel material in the way, plus then the block can never slide out of place then as well.

 

how hard is it to drill the barrel with a hand drill with the bulgarian fsb already drilled? I'm not sure how its going to be possible to keep the drill going straight with the curved barrel surface. :cryss:

 

Mine is mounted totally different so no actual experience.

 

What you could do is get some white out and mark the barrel with the FSB in and then take off the fsb out and get a round file and start filing.

 

Pictures:

 

img0516w.th.jpg

img0514r.th.jpg

img0515ir.th.jpg

img0512z.th.jpg

img0513c.th.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 5.45 was like your's is Sharkforce, like you said it won't be easy. I am very used to using different tools and drills so I got mine in with a regular hand drill but if you aren't comfortable then get someone with a machine or a drill press to stick it for you.

 

You could try to mark it like Zeroselect said but you'd have to know if you're filing it right and that isn't going to be easy to gauge by eye once the mark came off. At least with the block on you can see exactly where to drill and it will automatically be to depth.

 

You could index it and tack-weld it also but, yuk (<- my opinon although someone did that to a 7.62 I own now and it's not really that bad).

 

Really, just get to a drill press.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

holes drilled with drill press, DONE. that was seriously easy.now on the pinning part... i used soft nails and theyre fully in, however now the front sight is slightly canted to the left!!! :evil: what can i do theres no way i can get those nails out now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allot of AKs have canted sights, even some factory Saigas. How bad is it exactly? If it's only a little off you should be able to adjust the front sight post with an adjustment tool to get the sights on target. My 7.62 was canted ever-so-slightly and all I had to do was push the front sight post over about 1mm and it's good to go now.

 

If it's real bad, and I don't know how it could be, you could try the set-screw method set into a dimple drilled into the barrel under the sight block and stake it on when fully in/flush with the block.

 

You can also tack weld it. If you ever wanted it off again a little tack-weld shouldn't be easy to grind/drill out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

Tromix - Lead Delivery Systems
Dinzag Arms
CHAOS, Inc
Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc
Cobra's Custom
Carolina Shooters Supply
R & R Targets
LONE STAR ARMS
SGM Tactical
Mach 1 Arsenal
K-VAR
C&S Metall-Werkes
American Specialty Ammo
Csspecs Magazines
Phoenix Technology
Evlutionz LLC


  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×