I can has sgl-21? or no?

[t3mac21 1]

toss up between milled 1960 polish, or an sgl-21 for my next AK.

 

milled polish is about 680 + ffl fee

 

sgl-21 in plum is 705 + ffl fee

 

saiga is 330 + how much again? How much is it to convert? Round-about, ballpark estimate with parts MINUS stocks/handguards/pistol grip, since everyone has different tastes. But including the gas tube and handguard retainer, since I would be swapping out the handguards.

 

 

lol is it like 100-200? I'm just trying to figure out how much more cost effective it really is.

[paprotective 362]

The gas tube and lower hg retainer (modified already) from CSS is like $65. The G2 is $29, disconnect spring is $2, retainer plate is $8.

 

Post-A & BigSal will be along to toute the SGL as all military grade and yada yada..

 

Some 762x39 Saigas have had the luck of being threaded 14LH from the factory, if not figure $30 rental from Dinzag for that..

 

The Kvar plum sets go on sale for $70-90 (or less) just google it up.

 

A used wood set from Apex you can refinish is $25 and $8 shipping..

 

see my pic on left.. top is the 762x39 I did with wood from them.. and refinished myself.

 

3parts 922 r with the G2 FCG, 1 part with the pistol grip I have and 2 parts with the floor plate and follower I have in the mags.. (and I have 1 US made mag for 3 parts also).

 

Overall happy.

 

Hope that helps

 

 

Al

 

 

Al

[t3mac21 1]

That helps a lot thanks. So why wouldn't I go saiga? Ordering after work tomorrow. Gonna need a bullet guide too right?

Edited September 7, 2010 by t3mac21

[paprotective 362]

you have to figure if it got a flat or round trunnion.. most (not all) recently are FLAT type.. $19 for that KIT..

 

(some will argue this point) if you can see the rifle check the trunnion by removing the dust cover..

 

dinzag has pics on his site of BOTH trunnion types.

 

Al

[bigsal 757]

YWHIC:> You kill me bro!!!

t3mac21:>You would do better to go with the SGL-21, but I would wait until 10-10-2010. K-Var mentioned they will have a sale on that date in another thread.

[nalioth 405]

The "milled polish" is actually an "American Mixmaster".

 

Century produces them, and the content of Polish parts is less than that of it's American ones.

[BobAsh 582]

I love my SGL, very smooth right out of the box; almost as smooth as a Valmet.

[t3mac21 1]

The "milled polish" is actually an "American Mixmaster".

 

Century produces them, and the content of Polish parts is less than that of it's American ones.

 

Don't be wearing blinders now! My century gun has more matching parts than any arsenal out there. I'd put it up against any single one too except in a beauty contest. The milled 1960 is a very nice gun, sure, I'd want a chrome lined bore and original polish barrel but, find me a nicer looking milled reciever gun for the money. Besides, chrome lining is more about erosion than corrosion. Meaning, it's to protect barrels from excessive wear from full auto fire. Sure does make them easier to clean too!

 

I'm gonna get the saiga and I'm sure I'll love it. Then I'll make a nice comparison thread to show it's really not that much better at anything besides looks. OMG DIMPLES!

[bigsal 757]

The "milled polish" is actually an "American Mixmaster".

 

Century produces them, and the content of Polish parts is less than that of it's American ones.

 

Don't be wearing blinders now! My century gun has more matching parts than any arsenal out there. I'd put it up against any single one too except in a beauty contest. The milled 1960 is a very nice gun, sure, I'd want a chrome lined bore and original polish barrel but, find me a nicer looking milled reciever gun for the money. Besides, chrome lining is more about erosion than corrosion. Meaning, it's to protect barrels from excessive wear from full auto fire. Sure does make them easier to clean too!

 

I'm gonna get the saiga and I'm sure I'll love it. Then I'll make a nice comparison thread to show it's really not that much better at anything besides looks. OMG DIMPLES!

That would be stupid. There are several differences between the SGL series and the 2010 RAA units beyond the dimples (which most RAA units have). These differences include a non military stepped barrel, a non standard FSB which will require removal, an ass trigger system which requires changing and the lack of a bullet guide. I say wait on pulling the trigger for a month and than do a cost benifit analysis of the options out there. As allways: Stay safe, and dont go full-retard!

Edited September 7, 2010 by bigsal

[t3mac21 1]

You never go full-retard Sal.

 

 

Ok, well it'll be a converted saiga versus WASR-10/63 comparison than. I'm probably going to want wood stock anyway

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Saiga 7.62x39....

you might find one with magwell dimples

buy bullet guide

need to install bullet guide

mag catch mod?

address holes from old FCG

move trigger guard or fill holes and rivet a proper one on the weapon

going proper? buy a trigger guard and rivets

buy US FCG

remove muzzle shroud or thread muzzle

buy muzzle device

get sight base with detent

you might find one without the stupid stepped barrel

buy stock

you might find one with the grip bushing hole already cut

if not, cut hole

buy grip

buy grip screw and bushing

buy pin retainer

might find one with the proper cuts for the lower handguard retainer

buy handguard retainer

buy handguards

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Onward....

 

Arsenal SGL-21

perfect right out of the box

military chamber

24mm threaded FSB.... with detent

bring hand towel when you first see it.... the fit and finish on these is beautiful. A+

 

 

All of this having been said, I have 1 SGL-21 and just did a trade for another that will be here Thursday. I have another trade deal in the works for another after the next one arrives. Do you see a pattern here? Knowing what I know about the SGLs as they roll out the door of Arsenal, I won't be doing any Saiga 7.62x39 conversions unless I can find one really cheap with dimples and the military chambered barrel. Otherwise.... no thanks.

 

Just pay the extra dough and get a SGL-21....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

The "milled polish" is actually an "American Mixmaster".

 

Century produces them, and the content of Polish parts is less than that of it's American ones.

 

Don't be wearing blinders now! My century gun has more matching parts than any arsenal out there. I'd put it up against any single one too except in a beauty contest. The milled 1960 is a very nice gun, sure, I'd want a chrome lined bore and original polish barrel but, find me a nicer looking milled reciever gun for the money. Besides, chrome lining is more about erosion than corrosion. Meaning, it's to protect barrels from excessive wear from full auto fire. Sure does make them easier to clean too!

 

I'm gonna get the saiga and I'm sure I'll love it. Then I'll make a nice comparison thread to show it's really not that much better at anything besides looks. OMG DIMPLES!

 

You sure do have a lot of confidence as to what the differences are between Saiga rifles, (entire weapon is current factory Russian production), and WASR rifles, (the Romanian receiver's new, all the rest is old demilled parts), for someone who's never owned a Saiga. And no, your WASR does not have more matching parts, at best it could have the same number.

 

I've owned both, and there's more to it than "looks". My Romanian rifle was fine, worked well enough... but it doesn't compare favorably to my SGL in any category. Buy one, fire the two weapons side-by-side at the range, and then you'll actually know, rather than just speculating.

[t3mac21 1]

I used my WASR to hammer in a loose fence post yesterday. Try that with the sgl.

 

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

The SGL series are great out of the box. If you are patient, the 10-10-10 sale may save you a few hundred dollars.

 

They were $475 last year during that sale and demand was much higher than it is today ($699 at KVAR). I got mine for $525 (on the tail end of the sale) and I am happy with my purchase. Even as a Do-It-Yourselfer, you won't beat the sale price on the SGL's for the options you get.

 

The only thing that I do wish my SGL had was a Bolt Hold Open. Others will strongly disagree that you need this feature, but I like keeping the bolt open when going down range to check my targets to ensure that the weapon is clear visually from a distance.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I used my WASR to hammer in a loose fence post yesterday. Try that with the sgl.

 

 

Oh, any Saiga rifle is capable of that... but I'd horsewhip anyone I caught doin it!

[t3mac21 1]

I used my WASR to hammer in a loose fence post yesterday. Try that with the sgl.

 

 

Oh, any Saiga rifle is capable of that... but I'd horsewhip anyone I caught doin it!

I have my finger on the trigger for ordering a saiga right now. The henderson defense page and the plum sgl has me mezmorized though.

 

 

but I could buy a 7.62 and 5.45 saiga for that!

 

 

I'm gonna drink a few beers and decide lol.

[t3mac21 1]

The SGL series are great out of the box. If you are patient, the 10-10-10 sale may save you a few hundred dollars.

 

They were $475 last year during that sale and demand was much higher than it is today ($699 at KVAR). I got mine for $525 (on the tail end of the sale) and I am happy with my purchase. Even as a Do-It-Yourselfer, you won't beat the sale price on the SGL's for the options you get.

 

The only thing that I do wish my SGL had was a Bolt Hold Open. Others will strongly disagree that you need this feature, but I like keeping the bolt open when going down range to check my targets to ensure that the weapon is clear visually from a distance.

Whoa. The sale is going to be that much off? That's worth a months wait for sure.

[volkov 318]

I used my WASR to hammer in a loose fence post yesterday. Try that with the sgl.

 

 

errr ok? I'd prefer to use a hammer myself (both because a hammer works better and looks less threatening and is cheaper in case you damage it).. but I'm pretty sure in a pinch the SGL is just as good a hammer as the WASR.

[gimmeCZ 0]

Hi fellas. If you don't mind input from a new guy, I've got both of the rifles mentioned by the OP.

 

Century 1960 - I'm all over the place on my opinion of this rifle. I love the fit and finish. The bolt and carrier are a polished specimen of perfection. The front sight block, gas block, even the milled magazine release, and my particular rifle's matching stock set, all wonderful. The receiver is well finished, everything is very smooth, but I'm not a fan of the way the feed ramp is riveted through a hole all the way through the bottom of the receiver, instead of hidden below a "tombstone" plate as found on nearly every other milled rifle out there. This causes the cleaning rod channel to be a bit short, and myself and others have had to file 1/4" or so off our cleaning rods to get them to seat properly. Last is the barrel, US made and only marked with "CAI", and the rifling is buggered up across from the gas hole from drilling too deep. The gas block and front sight block are canted different directions on my rifle as well, gas block to the right, and front sight to the left. After 300 rounds or so the gas tube and front hand guard loosened up and now have quite a bit of rattle and play. It is just what you would expect for the price point. A very nice parts kit, held together with a decent receiver, firing ammunition through a mystery tube.

 

SGL-21 - I reeaally love this rifle. Right out of the box it has a nice fit and finish, well fit furniture, nice receiver, and a real chrome lined Russian barrel. Accuracy is a bit better than the 1960, mainly I seem to get fewer flyers, but that may just be me.

 

I tend to look a AKs, really just about all self loading rifles, as a barrel, surrounded by everything else.

 

Start with a good, accurate, quality barrel. Then add sturdy components that do their job of feeding and extracting ammunition from said barrel well. Keep all these components working together with a straight, sturdy receiver, add whatever stocks and a smooth trigger, and that's it.

 

Both my SGL-21 and WASR 10/63 do a great job at this. Both accurate, sturdy, and reliable, with solid barrels. The SGL-21 does it a little prettier with a nicer finish and pedigree, but in the dark they do the same job well.

 

It is my opinion, and not necessarily correct or shared by others, that my Century 1960 is exactly the opposite. Beautiful feeding/extracting components in a cosmetically pleasing receiver, with the barrel being an afterthought.

 

I've even gone as far as to purchase a matching Polish 1960 kit and Bulgarian SA M7 classic virgin barrel to build a higher spec clone of my Century rifle. My SGL-21, on the other hand, sits as it came out of the box and I'm plenty happy with it.

[t3mac21 1]

I used my WASR to hammer in a loose fence post yesterday. Try that with the sgl.

 

 

errr ok? I'd prefer to use a hammer myself (both because a hammer works better and looks less threatening and is cheaper in case you damage it).. but I'm pretty sure in a pinch the SGL is just as good a hammer as the WASR.

 

It's not. My WASR was scratched when it was "new" the SGL is too pretty and polymer furniture doesn't have what it takes to make a truly fine hammer. Trust me, I've hammered a lot of things.

[t3mac21 1]

Hi fellas. If you don't mind input from a new guy, I've got both of the rifles mentioned by the OP.

 

Century 1960 - I'm all over the place on my opinion of this rifle. I love the fit and finish. The bolt and carrier are a polished specimen of perfection. The front sight block, gas block, even the milled magazine release, and my particular rifle's matching stock set, all wonderful. The receiver is well finished, everything is very smooth, but I'm not a fan of the way the feed ramp is riveted through a hole all the way through the bottom of the receiver, instead of hidden below a "tombstone" plate as found on nearly every other milled rifle out there. This causes the cleaning rod channel to be a bit short, and myself and others have had to file 1/4" or so off our cleaning rods to get them to seat properly. Last is the barrel, US made and only marked with "CAI", and the rifling is buggered up across from the gas hole from drilling too deep. The gas block and front sight block are canted different directions on my rifle as well, gas block to the right, and front sight to the left. After 300 rounds or so the gas tube and front hand guard loosened up and now have quite a bit of rattle and play. It is just what you would expect for the price point. A very nice parts kit, held together with a decent receiver, firing ammunition through a mystery tube.

 

SGL-21 - I reeaally love this rifle. Right out of the box it has a nice fit and finish, well fit furniture, nice receiver, and a real chrome lined Russian barrel. Accuracy is a bit better than the 1960, mainly I seem to get fewer flyers, but that may just be me.

 

I tend to look a AKs, really just about all self loading rifles, as a barrel, surrounded by everything else.

 

Start with a good, accurate, quality barrel. Then add sturdy components that do their job of feeding and extracting ammunition from said barrel well. Keep all these components working together with a straight, sturdy receiver, add whatever stocks and a smooth trigger, and that's it.

 

Both my SGL-21 and WASR 10/63 do a great job at this. Both accurate, sturdy, and reliable, with solid barrels. The SGL-21 does it a little prettier with a nicer finish and pedigree, but in the dark they do the same job well.

 

It is my opinion, and not necessarily correct or shared by others, that my Century 1960 is exactly the opposite. Beautiful feeding/extracting components in a cosmetically pleasing receiver, with the barrel being an afterthought.

 

I've even gone as far as to purchase a matching Polish 1960 kit and Bulgarian SA M7 classic virgin barrel to build a higher spec clone of my Century rifle. My SGL-21, on the other hand, sits as it came out of the box and I'm plenty happy with it.

 

 

I think the barrels are made by green mountain.

 

but, man I'd love a milled. You have to understand though, I'm in NY, so it's either by a hugely marked up pre-ban, or find a company/distributor who will "play ball" Henderson defense will shave the bayonet lug, tack weld the muzzle brake and provide pre-1994 magazines for like 20-30 dollars extra. That's kinda huge for me. If everyone else offered this, I'd be looking at lots of stuff.

[jimdigriz 580]

The only thing that I do wish my SGL had was a Bolt Hold Open. Others will strongly disagree that you need this feature, but I like keeping the bolt open when going down range to check my targets to ensure that the weapon is clear visually from a distance.

 

Use a chamber flag:

[t3mac21 1]

Shit, all I know is that if SGL's were 475, I'd buy two of those mofo's today.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

The only thing that I do wish my SGL had was a Bolt Hold Open. Others will strongly disagree that you need this feature, but I like keeping the bolt open when going down range to check my targets to ensure that the weapon is clear visually from a distance.

 

Use a chamber flag:

Or you can flip up the safety which is visible and easy to identify. However, it is not how I was trained (remove the mag, clear the action and keep it locked toward the rear, gun on safe). I totally get that some folks don't need them and I understand their perspective.

 

It's not a deal breaker for me as I still have my SGL in stock configuration (minus the trigger job - I filed off the 2nd stage bump to flush on the hammer).

[Ermac 8]

The "milled polish" is actually an "American Mixmaster".

 

Century produces them, and the content of Polish parts is less than that of it's American ones.

 

Don't be wearing blinders now! My century gun has more matching parts than any arsenal out there. I'd put it up against any single one too except in a beauty contest. The milled 1960 is a very nice gun, sure, I'd want a chrome lined bore and original polish barrel but, find me a nicer looking milled reciever gun for the money. Besides, chrome lining is more about erosion than corrosion. Meaning, it's to protect barrels from excessive wear from full auto fire. Sure does make them easier to clean too!

 

I'm gonna get the saiga and I'm sure I'll love it. Then I'll make a nice comparison thread to show it's really not that much better at anything besides looks. OMG DIMPLES!

 

You sure do have a lot of confidence as to what the differences are between Saiga rifles, (entire weapon is current factory Russian production), and WASR rifles, (the Romanian receiver's new, all the rest is old demilled parts), for someone who's never owned a Saiga. And no, your WASR does not have more matching parts, at best it could have the same number.

 

I've owned both, and there's more to it than "looks". My Romanian rifle was fine, worked well enough... but it doesn't compare favorably to my SGL in any category. Buy one, fire the two weapons side-by-side at the range, and then you'll actually know, rather than just speculating.

My WASR has all matching numbers. The Rommy RPK I had before it also did. Old demilled parts, that look like they were never used!

[nalioth 405]

The only thing that I do wish my SGL had was a Bolt Hold Open. Others will strongly disagree that you need this feature, but I like keeping the bolt open when going down range to check my targets to ensure that the weapon is clear visually from a distance.

 

Use a chamber flag:

Or you can flip up the safety which is visible and easy to identify. However, it is not how I was trained (remove the mag, clear the action and keep it locked toward the rear, gun on safe). I totally get that some folks don't need them and I understand their perspective.

 

It's not a deal breaker for me as I still have my SGL in stock configuration (minus the trigger job - I filed off the 2nd stage bump to flush on the hammer).

What were you trained on?

 

The AK isn't an AR (I do wish folks'd quit trying to make it into one)

[chevyman097 2,579]

I have been really itching to buy another Saiga to convert, but im glad ive been waiting. I think I just might hold out for this 10/10 deal Id love an sgl21 and from the looks of it Kvar has been making a lot of improvement in areas. I think I just might give it a go.

 

 

[chevyman097 2,579]

So what do you guess they might be selling them at this time around Bigsal? If any guess... I need to dig up some money from under the house....

[bigsal 757]

So what do you guess they might be selling them at this time around Bigsal? If any guess... I need to dig up some money from under the house....

who knows if they will even have them on sale. You can of course ask them directly as they are forum members now. They have answered all my questions within a day or so, so please go to the K-Var section, start a new thread and ask, I am curious as well!!!!

[VaiFanatic90 360]

So what do you guess they might be selling them at this time around Bigsal? If any guess... I need to dig up some money from under the house....

who knows if they will even have them on sale. You can of course ask them directly as they are forum members now. They have answered all my questions within a day or so, so please go to the K-Var section, start a new thread and ask, I am curious as well!!!!

 

I second that motion! Go forth and ask, for I wish to know as well.