psl sniper 963 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 anyone have any input with mikes new plug? or should i go with the gun fixer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) anyone have any input with mikes new plug? or should i go with the gun fixer? I should have my VPlug tomorrow.....I'll let ya know, but I never used the gun fixer...... I read the page long information section on the plug at MD arms.....thats what sold me on it Edited September 17, 2010 by Saiga Power Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdmakersmark 15 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 Just ordered the MD plug. 20 and free shipping, can't go wrong. I just want to be able to turn the gas plug by hand and have the flexibility of 5 settings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 I like the TAC-47 Auto Plug... no need to turn the thing. Just install it, and your done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Night Armory 0 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 I already had the Tac-47 hand adjustable plug with 3-4 settings. It worked great but IMHO a little overpriced. When I saw that Mike had his on sale and with 5 settings, was a no brainer, ordered it. Will sell the other to a friend of mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... Mike, We did not go wrong. We have an awesome working auto plug so what ever bullshit you or gunfixer want to say you can, people will not be easily dissuaded by your facts and how you see them. Our plug works, period. We have plenty reports of that. I am really tired of the shit you and GF spew... re read the post that hobby shooter posted about not being able to function with low brass, it was hobby shooters undergassed gun so the plug needed a little adjusting and wow.. it works great. I dont talk shit about anyone's product... yours, gun fixers... no ones. Keep my plug out of your mouths. You wanna fuck around I WILL TEST YOURS and find out it's a poor copy.. of ..of it's a plug.....any how I can see the flaw in your plug already you have to adjust it... seriously WTF??? I'm going to say it... our plug beats a manual adjusting plug hands down ANY day... and they're not overgassing the guns. Cliff Evans 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. That's not the whole story. I was the one that stated my low gassed gun cycled federal bulk with the gun fixer set to 3 then when I swapped plugs to the auto plug it wouldn't cycle federal bulk. !BUT! Then I turned the adjuster screw tighter until it did (3/4 of a turn iirc). The auto plug is adjustable just like the external wastegate on an aftermarket turbo setup. You tighten the pre-load on the spring for more gas into the block. This is the low gassed gun after I tightened the adjuster screw: As you can see it has a mid barrel brake and the required port work with a factory length gas system. It's an '08 4 port gun that has never had the ports opened. I had to use a CSS low power recoil spring to get it to run federal bulk after the mid barrel port with the gunfixer on setting 3. The auto plug out of the package was softer on the gas system than the gunfixer on setting 3, but it was easily adjustable to get it to run the at equal performance. After my initial tests, I ordered another auto plug for my '09 3 port S12. Edited September 17, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... I've not been a member of the forum for very long (and I own 3 MD ARMS products for my S12). I don't know of any past grudges, grievances etc...... But such attacks without even testing a product is suprising. Why would a business member (with a large following) word his comments in such a malicious manner? Saiga 12 popularity is growing, which means more business for aftermarket product. I would say, a decent percentage of the new owners know as little as I do about the gun (NEWBIES). If a brand new forum member comes along and doesnt know the difference between your product and others.....I would think that if this thread was thier first impression of a business member, that they would probably not trust your product or your opinion, or your testing results of the other business members product. I am not on here to badmouth anyone. I dont have a business of my own, but this just DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME...... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redbeamer 1 Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... I've not been a member of the forum for very long (and I own 3 MD ARMS products for my S12). I don't know of any past grudges, grievances etc...... But such attacks without even testing a product is suprising. Why would a business member (with a large following) word his comments in such a malicious manner? Saiga 12 popularity is growing, which means more business for aftermarket product. I would say, a decent percentage of the new owners know as little as I do about the gun (NEWBIES). If a brand new forum member comes along and doesnt know the difference between your product and others.....I would think that if this thread was thier first impression of a business member, that they would probably not trust your product or your opinion, or your testing results of the other business members product. I am not on here to badmouth anyone. I dont have a business of my own, but this just DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME...... I have to agree with this! There seems to be a lot of this kind of thing in the Saiga community. I would definitely put more weight on the opinions of those who aren't trying to sell a similar product though. At the same time I've recently done business with MD Arms and couldn't be happier with that transaction. I suspect this is just some bad blood that is still boiling... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 this post was not meant to stir the pot. im sure the tac47 is a great plug. just not for me. i like to keep things simple. the tac47 just seems like to much trouble to me. i hope it works and everybody enjoys it. i just wanted to know peoples opinions between mikes and the other one from carolina shooters supply. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 this post was not meant to stir the pot. im sure the tac47 is a great plug. just not for me. i like to keep things simple. the tac47 just seems like to much trouble to me. i hope it works and everybody enjoys it. i just wanted to know peoples opinions between mikes and the other one from carolina shooters supply. No need for you to apologize. You are using the site as it was intended...... Just my opinion..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Jeeze guys. Despite the manufactures of these products claims this is not friggin rocket science, it really isnt. It takes so much pressure and volume to move the piston and cycle the gun. To little and it FTEs, to much and it slams the rear of the gun. Ive never seen so much hype over a pressure valve. A high pressure air rifle or paint ball guns regulator is far more complicated than this, you can dismiss that claim because its not a powder burner but you would just be showing your ignorance. All the manual valves Ive seen so far work on the same principle and other than number of settings, cosmetics or ease of use claims they are all basically the same thing. This one has more settings or this one is easier to turn, give it a rest. The Auto Tac plug is a VERY simple pressure relief valve. The hardest thing in building a valve like that is sourcing out a spring that will work with your valve size and pressure range. Because the spring rate changes by how much force you put on it with the retaining screw the amount of pressure that it takes to open the valve is adjustable. Basically you can tune it to any gun as long as the gas system of the guns pressure range falls withing the limits of the valves adjustment. The only thing that I see that could be in question is if the valve size is large enough to vent the pressure fast enough, which I believe it is. Another question I would ask is if the super heated gas will change the spring rate over time. Only time will tell. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Night Armory 0 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 I have the Tac-47 hand adjustable plug. It works great. My Saiga can cycle anything with it set to the proper setting. The only reason I ordered the MD Amrs hand adjustable one is that it has 5 settings instead of 3-4. So I will say nothing bad about both of them as they are great products. The auto plug, I am still unsure about, mainly because I have been in pucker situations before. And the more things that can go wrong with something, the more it will go wrong when you need it most. So the auto plug is not for me. Good luck guys MD Arms and Tac-47, I think you guys both make great products and are a pleasure to deal with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JAldrich2008 28 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 I have a Tac 47 plug, but only because the Gunfixer plug was sold out everywhere. It cycles Federal bulk on the most open setting, and everything else in the tightest setting. The only problem I have is that the threads foul up and the plug gets hard to turn afer about 75 rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Jeeze guys. Despite the manufactures of these products claims this is not friggin rocket science, it really isnt. It takes so much pressure and volume to move the piston and cycle the gun. To little and it FTEs, to much and it slams the rear of the gun. Ive never seen so much hype over a pressure valve. A high pressure air rifle or paint ball guns regulator is far more complicated than this, you can dismiss that claim because its not a powder burner but you would just be showing your ignorance. All the manual valves Ive seen so far work on the same principle and other than number of settings, cosmetics or ease of use claims they are all basically the same thing. This one has more settings or this one is easier to turn, give it a rest. The Auto Tac plug is a VERY simple pressure relief valve. The hardest thing in building a valve like that is sourcing out a spring that will work with your valve size and pressure range. Because the spring rate changes by how much force you put on it with the retaining screw the amount of pressure that it takes to open the valve is adjustable. Basically you can tune it to any gun as long as the gas system of the guns pressure range falls withing the limits of the valves adjustment. The only thing that I see that could be in question is if the valve size is large enough to vent the pressure fast enough, which I believe it is. Another question I would ask is if the super heated gas will change the spring rate over time. Only time will tell. funny you should mention paintball guns. i used to repair them professionally for various fields. ive actually built several autocockers (electric and mechanical) from scratch. as anyone whose ever balled can tell you paintball markers are finicky. always adjusting your regulater adjujsting air presure etc. you could spend as much time tinkering as shooting. when you compare the tac47 concept to paintball. it just makes me want to avoid it all the more. this may not be true, but i see myself constantly tweeking and adjusting the tac 47 Edited September 18, 2010 by psl sniper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) I have the Tac-47 hand adjustable plug. It works great. My Saiga can cycle anything with it set to the proper setting. The only reason I ordered the MD Amrs hand adjustable one is that it has 5 settings instead of 3-4. So I will say nothing bad about both of them as they are great products. The auto plug, I am still unsure about, mainly because I have been in pucker situations before. And the more things that can go wrong with something, the more it will go wrong when you need it most. So the auto plug is not for me. Good luck guys MD Arms and Tac-47, I think you guys both make great products and are a pleasure to deal with. now i could see using the tac 12 (the hand adjsutable one} but like you, i feel the tac 47 could have to many issues when you need it. only time will tell. Edited September 18, 2010 by psl sniper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 This post isn't intended to talk shit AT ALL. Just a relevant question & this seems like the place to ask it. I don't intend on ever buying an aftermarket plug, because my factory plug works just great & if the SHTF, I'll only be using high power anyhow, so I'd be on setting 1 all the time. But my question is, can all the shit caked onto everything that I clean out of my gas block interfere with the functioning of the auto-plug? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 funny you should mention paintball guns. i used to repair them professionally for various fields. ive actually built several autocockers (electric and mechanical) from scratch. as anyone whose ever balled can tell you paintball markers are finicky. always adjusting your regulater adjujsting air presure etc. you could spend as much time tinkering as shooting. when you compare the tac47 concept to paintball. it just makes me want to avoid it all the more. this may not be true, but i see myself constantly tweeking and adjusting the tac 47 Like I said, the Auto Tac is far simpler than one of those regs ). The point about SHTF is valid. If I was only going to use high brass and I wanted the best reliability possible then I would use a fixed plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) funny you should mention paintball guns. i used to repair them professionally for various fields. ive actually built several autocockers (electric and mechanical) from scratch. as anyone whose ever balled can tell you paintball markers are finicky. always adjusting your regulater adjujsting air presure etc. you could spend as much time tinkering as shooting. when you compare the tac47 concept to paintball. it just makes me want to avoid it all the more. this may not be true, but i see myself constantly tweeking and adjusting the tac 47 Like I said, the Auto Tac is far simpler than one of those regs ). The point about SHTF is valid. If I was only going to use high brass and I wanted the best reliability possible then I would use a fixed plug. like i said. it may be simpler but its still the same concept. using the marker analogy again, you may have the gas reg working perfect for multiple tournements. then you put it away for a month and find out you have to readjust everything. i honestly just want simple. ive used the factory plug exclusively since i purchased my saiga a few years back. the only reason i want to switch now, is the fact ive run into some various high brass rounds that fall somewhere in the middle of my plugs capabilities. i already placed an order with md arms about an hour ago. i have one of the drums, and if the quality of the v plug is as good as that im sold. not to mention $20 with free shipping is pretty sweet. Edited September 18, 2010 by psl sniper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) But my question is, can all the shit caked onto everything that I clean out of my gas block interfere with the functioning of the auto-plug? Obviously yes. Just like it can clog up the piston or the gas ports in the barrel. This is my auto plug after ~80 rounds of federal bulk (dirty stuff), a few rounds of remington bulk, 5 remington sluggers, about 5 rounds of estate buckshot, and 2 S&B low recoil slugs. (sorry about the cell phone quality pics) Just like with every other plug, the majority of the crud collects against the puck. I do intend to shoot the gun with hundreds of rounds of federal bulk until it stops cycling, then clean only the puck to determine what fouls first. Previously the puck would foul before anything else after ~600 rounds (but would still cycle estate buckshot) although I would typically poke the barrel ports at the same time as cleaning the puck. Edited September 18, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... Mike, We did not go wrong. We have an awesome working auto plug so what ever bullshit you or gunfixer want to say you can, people will not be easily dissuaded by your facts and how you see them. Our plug works, period. We have plenty reports of that. I am really tired of the shit you and GF spew... re read the post that hobby shooter posted about not being able to function with low brass, it was hobby shooters undergassed gun so the plug needed a little adjusting and wow.. it works great. I dont talk shit about anyone's product... yours, gun fixers... no ones. Keep my plug out of your mouths. You wanna fuck around I WILL TEST YOURS and find out it's a poor copy.. of ..of it's a plug.....any how I can see the flaw in your plug already you have to adjust it... seriously WTF??? I'm going to say it... our plug beats a manual adjusting plug hands down ANY day... and they're not overgassing the guns. Cliff Evans I really didn't want a fight over this... And there wouldn't have been one if you made truthful claims... Look, if your Auto plug is good I'll be the first to come back and say other wise... And just because other people that have no real way or know how of testing if it is over gassing the guns come here and say it cycled everything doesn't mean crap. It has been said before, you can do that same thing with the factory plug. But eEVERY factory plug will over gas the gun with some ammos... I completely stand by my comments on you manually adjustable plug (gunfixer copy). You claimed you don't say anything about other products... You said you wanted more from your plug when refering to your adjustable one... Isn't that saying it's better? And wether you know it or admit it or not, it is far less of a plug than the Gunfixer and even more less of a plug compared to the V-Plug... Do you want me to prove it with math for you? Do you really want me to show everyone that you either are a liar or you don't know what your doing or both? It will be very easy to prove. Here are some of the reverse effects from the changes you made to the Gunfixer that makes your plug less. Your adjustable plug lets more fouling to the threads because of one of your changes. Your plug increases the volume of the gas chamber (pressurizes slower with low brass). Your plug lets in way to much gas on what you claim is extra settings. Your claims of not needing a tool to adjust it are bullcrap. If that is true why did you put holes for a tool? And even your tool holes are less of a design compared to tool slots. You greatly limited what you can use to adjust it once its dirty or hot. The gunfixer or V-Plug can use every tool yours can take plus many more. Your knurel is not the best knurel for grip. And you claimed it would adjust in the same spot on all guns. Not possible with random threads in the gas block. And besides that your thread pattern is random even if the Russian threads were the same. Very bold and untruthful claims on your part to try and make your plug look better than the Gunfixer when actually it is much less of a design... So who exactly is talking the real shit here? You, and you've been called on it. And if it isn't bullshit why don't you debunk what I have just said with solid proof? You can't because what I said is true and what you said is not. You totally blew your adjustable design because you tyotally didn't know what you was doing. And then you said it was better. Remeber, you made all these BS claims. Your adjustable plug is nothing more than a hand adjustable factory plug with extra settings that don't do much of anything... And because of this I don't trust what you say about your Auto plug. How are you testing for over gassing exactly? Why can't you answer simple questions on it? The same as you couldn't answer simple question on your adjustable? And still haven't... I can tell from watching your videos and looking at the interior view of your auto plug that our soon to come auto plug is much better than yours... So prepare your self for a much better desing to pop up to show that yours doesn't work to well. I don't need to see one in my hand to know ours is better. I have all the proof I need in the pics and videos I see posted. If I am full of crap then prove it by first explaining away what I have said about your adjustable. Go over your changes to Nate's design and tell us why it makes it funtion better. You can't, because it doesn't. And you didn't even realize it until someone that knows what is going on told you where you went wrong. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 funny you should mention paintball guns. i used to repair them professionally for various fields. ive actually built several autocockers (electric and mechanical) from scratch. as anyone whose ever balled can tell you paintball markers are finicky. always adjusting your regulater adjujsting air presure etc. you could spend as much time tinkering as shooting. when you compare the tac47 concept to paintball. it just makes me want to avoid it all the more. this may not be true, but i see myself constantly tweeking and adjusting the tac 47 Like I said, the Auto Tac is far simpler than one of those regs ). The point about SHTF is valid. If I was only going to use high brass and I wanted the best reliability possible then I would use a fixed plug. like i said. it may be simpler but its still the same concept. using the marker analogy again, you may have the gas reg working perfect for multiple tournements. then you put it away for a month and find out you have to readjust everything. i honestly just want simple. ive used the factory plug exclusively since i purchased my saiga a few years back. the only reason i want to switch now, is the fact ive run into some various high brass rounds that fall somewhere in the middle of my plugs capabilities. i already placed an order with md arms about an hour ago. i have one of the drums, and if the quality of the v plug is as good as that im sold. not to mention $20 with free shipping is pretty sweet. You won't be sorry. MD Arms can PROVE every claim we make on our products. We can actually explain how and why it works. So many others just say things that sound good and can't back it up... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 funny you should mention paintball guns. i used to repair them professionally for various fields. ive actually built several autocockers (electric and mechanical) from scratch. as anyone whose ever balled can tell you paintball markers are finicky. always adjusting your regulater adjujsting air presure etc. you could spend as much time tinkering as shooting. when you compare the tac47 concept to paintball. it just makes me want to avoid it all the more. this may not be true, but i see myself constantly tweeking and adjusting the tac 47 Like I said, the Auto Tac is far simpler than one of those regs ). The point about SHTF is valid. If I was only going to use high brass and I wanted the best reliability possible then I would use a fixed plug. What if your "fixed plug" caused parts to break in your gun from over gassing. You would be screwed huh... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 The Gunfixer is a great plug, no doubt. But ours IS greatly improved. It is everything the gunfixer is and also has many more improvements. As far as the Auto plug comment... Haven't tested one yet but the video I saw of one in action kind of told me it was not in action. Also there are already reports of people not being able to function low brass that there gun cycled with other plugs. I will have one soon to test and evaluate. I think I might know where they went wrong with it without even seeing it but won't comment until I see it first hand. I am not really surprised though. When they copied the Gunfixer plug the changes they made to the design CLEARLY shows they didn't have a clue how the gunfixer even worked. And some of the claims they made turned out to be completely false, wether it was deception or ignorance I don't know. Hate to put it out there like that but facts are facts and it isn't my fault they are true and that I see them... What I'm saying is if they didn't understand the Gunfixer design they copied I have little faith they knew what they was doing with the Auto plug... I will let you all know if it is over gassing the guns here very soon. My guess is yes, they are... I've not been a member of the forum for very long (and I own 3 MD ARMS products for my S12). I don't know of any past grudges, grievances etc...... But such attacks without even testing a product is suprising. Why would a business member (with a large following) word his comments in such a malicious manner? Saiga 12 popularity is growing, which means more business for aftermarket product. I would say, a decent percentage of the new owners know as little as I do about the gun (NEWBIES). If a brand new forum member comes along and doesnt know the difference between your product and others.....I would think that if this thread was thier first impression of a business member, that they would probably not trust your product or your opinion, or your testing results of the other business members product. I am not on here to badmouth anyone. I dont have a business of my own, but this just DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME...... I have to agree with this! There seems to be a lot of this kind of thing in the Saiga community. I would definitely put more weight on the opinions of those who aren't trying to sell a similar product though. At the same time I've recently done business with MD Arms and couldn't be happier with that transaction. I suspect this is just some bad blood that is still boiling... Yes, I have a vested interests because I am selling plugs... But if I wasn't what I have said would be no more and no less true than it is... As far as opinions... I have stated very few opinion. I know what is going on and how this stuff is working. That lets me take it past opinions and lets me speak facts. Big difference between the two, wether I am selling something or not. I am not speaking any of this out of grudges... I had nothing against Tac47 what so ever. That is until they came here and started filling everyone full of BS claims they couldn't back up. Now that it has been made aparent it should be the customer that holds the grudges... If Tac47 was making truthful statments I would have never said a word. I am trying to let all of you know what is true... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted September 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 mike does make some valid points. looking forward to getting the plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Now that it has been made aparent What are you referring to as being made apparent? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 I am not going to get in a pissing match with you Mike i dont need to explain away my adjustable plug, our customers are our proof. The plug is not some critical mathematical problem that has to be explained in integers. I did not make bogus claims, the reason we made a new plug was because we wanted to use it on our guns we build and there were rounds the GFs would not cycle if you say by me saying " I wanted more than what was available" was putting down someones product then I dont know what to tell you.. I never knocked his plug and always suggested it and used it on my own products until we made a manual plug with a different range and result, we are one of the industries top builders, we use and test what we make. Your claims of proof and demonstration are the most bullshit I have heard. you think people are stupid or something. PS the "Auto Plug" name is registered and is pending Trademark. I just dont understand if you are immature, or what you have against us. I am just tired of the bullshit, I dont usally hang around it. I am successful and have no need to defraud any customer and have always stood up for my products as well as my business practices. I am an honest Christian man, so say what you will of my integrity, product or pudding. Cliff Evans Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhunt 15 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 I like the Tac 47 manual plug more than the GF manual, because it's easier to grip and looks cooler ihmo. They all work the same with a few minor +'s and -'s. I like that the GF plug has numbers and not some dots with plus and minus. I'm not degrading anyone's product, just stating my opinion. I have the auto plug, but am having a few problems with it. I adjusted it and its fine now. My guns had always had problems so I'm not too worried about it. At least Tac 47 isn't going into "I'm going to patent this and every single design like it so I will have zero competition" mode. Communism is bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted September 18, 2010 Report Share Posted September 18, 2010 Now that it has been made aparent What are you referring to as being made apparent? That Tac47s claim of their adjustable plug are bogus... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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