Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hi, haven't been on this forum or any forum in over a year so please excuse me if I miss any common forum courtesies. Bout to buy my 2nd saiga 12 (IZ-109) and I want some information regarding the barrel length and gas system if any1 can help me...I would like to cut the barrel down to as short as legally and effectively as possible w.o. having to purchase a tax stamp/being considered an SBS OR having to work on the gas system. How short can I go w.o. having to take off the gas block and porting the gas system better and have it still cycle effectively? I DO plan on adding a Tromix monster break (5.8" OAL)so with that as an extension of the barrel, could I effectively go below 16"'s? Would it just be easier to stick to the factory 19"? Please give me feedback on this topic. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 If you want to be legal without purchasing a SBS stamp why are you asking about going shorter than 18"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 If you want to be legal without purchasing a SBS stamp why are you asking about going shorter than 18"? He's telling us that he's going to add a Tromix brake (which is 5.8" OAL according to him). This means (to me, anyway) that he wants to know if he can cut his barrel down to 12¼" and permanently attach the Tromix brake to bring it to a legal 18" w/o having to futz with the gas system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) If you want to be legal without purchasing a SBS stamp why are you asking about going shorter than 18"? Yup. Assuming the OP is in the US........any shotgun barrel below 18" is considered an SBS and required the stamp, etc. Otherwise.......I know Bob and Tony of Tromix have posted about the shortest length possible without messing with the gas system. But I can't remember what it was. 14", maybe? I can't remember. EDIT: Nalioth was posting when I was.........I guess I missed that part of the OP. Edited October 1, 2010 by -Shooter- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 If you want to be legal without purchasing a SBS stamp why are you asking about going shorter than 18"? He's telling us that he's going to add a Tromix brake (which is 5.8" OAL according to him). This means (to me, anyway) that he wants to know if he can cut his barrel down to 12¼" and permanently attach the Tromix brake to bring it to a legal 18" w/o having to futz with the gas system. ^^^ EXACTLY. I will be adding a Tromix monster (5.8" OAL) break for sure, like I said in my last post to equate to the legal barrel length. That is, if I can cut my barrel down to what would be considered SBS length and me having to NOT mess with the gas block/gas system. I saw step by step picture instructions about 2 years back on how to properly remove the gas block and port the holes to proper size. Just looked like a pain in the a**! Hey shooter, you have any reference to any other threads previously posted by Tony at tromix or anything regarding this topic? If any1 does, it would help a lot. Thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chowderhead72 13 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I was looking to do the same thing a few months back. The conclusion I came to was it was not worth the effort. The warthog or shark or maybe even the A2 would be a bit more feasable. I am not %100 on this but I believe anything less than 18" of barrel/muzzle device without holes will require port work. I recal a tromix post that requires the gas block to be moved at 14.5. If you realy must have the monster brake I would have Tromix do the conversion and I am positive it will take a few months. It will be expensive but it WILL be right. There are other vendors on this site that could do it but for this type of work I would hold out for a Rumore special. If you went with the warthog or shark most competent gunsmiths could get the barrel cut, threaded, and silver soldered in a few days for less than $200. If you go for the Rumore special(tromix) my guess would be in the $1000-1300 range if you provide only the gun. Either way post pics and updates or it didn't happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I was looking to do the same thing a few months back. The conclusion I came to was it was not worth the effort. The warthog or shark or maybe even the A2 would be a bit more feasable. I am not %100 on this but I believe anything less than 18" of barrel/muzzle device without holes will require port work. I recal a tromix post that requires the gas block to be moved at 14.5. If you realy must have the monster brake I would have Tromix do the conversion and I am positive it will take a few months. It will be expensive but it WILL be right. There are other vendors on this site that could do it but for this type of work I would hold out for a Rumore special. If you went with the warthog or shark most competent gunsmiths could get the barrel cut, threaded, and silver soldered in a few days for less than $200. If you go for the Rumore special(tromix) my guess would be in the $1000-1300 range if you provide only the gun. Either way post pics and updates or it didn't happen. I will be cutting my own barrell and doing my own threading with a tap. IDK what size to use yet, but that's not hard to figure out. I just dont want to cut it until I know for sure it can be done at any certain length under 18". Not to be ignorant or anything, but I have the tools to do the job and from this forum, after asking the right questions and the right people looking at this thread and giving the right advice and cross threading to previously posted similar topics, I should be able to get the job done myself. I am looking for the absolute best technology I can find for reducing recoil and with a serious pachmeyer rubber slip on butt pad on top of an ACE SOCOM stock and the tromix monster break, I should be golden. That's why I want the moster brake. Unless someone makes a muzzle brake identical to a mossberg recoil break/barett style muzzle brake for the Saiga 12??? If no, please refer me! I would love to put one of those on my Saiga. Back on topic though, Still looking for someone who has actually done the barrel cutting/shortening who can give me a heads up on how close I can get w.o. messing with the ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Dinzag arms has all the tools you need (for rental) to rethread after cutting the barrel down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Dinzag arms has all the tools you need (for rental) to rethread after cutting the barrel down. I just said in my previous post I have the tools to do that. Why would I want to rent from Dinzag?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chowderhead72 13 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Please be aware that if you cut the barrel less than 18" with the barrel attatched to the gun you get in a heap of trouble. Intent or plans mean very little in your situation to law enforcement. Under 18" without approval and stamp could equal several years of state sponsored bed and breakfast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) ...Would it just be easier to stick to the factory 19"? Please give me feedback on this topic. Thanks. Of course it would be easier, but not nearly as cool. Imo, the "monster brake" looks pretty goofy on the end of a 19" barrel, (not to mention awkward). Remember, unless you have the proper licensing, it is illegal to cut your barrel below 18", even if it's only for a few minutes before attaching the muzzle device, (retarded yes, but also the law). If you want it professionally done, I recommend Mike at Lone Star Arms. He's doing exactly what you describe on a lot of his new S-12 models. My gun is down at LSA right now; I'm getting my barrel cut down and a Polychoke permanently attached to bring the overall length to ~18.15". Edited October 1, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 ...Would it just be easier to stick to the factory 19"? Please give me feedback on this topic. Thanks. Of course it would be easier, but not nearly as cool. Imo, the "monster brake" looks pretty goofy on the end of a 19" barrel, (not to mention awkward). Remember, unless you have the proper licensing, it is illegal to cut your barrel below 18", even if it's only for a few minutes before attaching the muzzle device, (retarded yes, but also the law). If you want it professionally done, I recommend Mike at Lone Star Arms. He's doing exactly what you describe on a lot of his new S-12 models. My gun is down at LSA right now; I'm getting my barrel cut down and a Polychoke permanently attached to bring the overall length to ~18.15". Sounds awsome! How do I get a hold of Mike at Lone Star? I tried looking up a website, couldnt find one. Legality isn't my question though anyway. All I would like to know, is how short can it be cut at/done to where someone chopping the barrell wouldn't have to mess with the gas block? Perhaps in reference to how the FFL dealer's do it...How much do they cut off w.o. messin with the gas block? If it's illegal for even 5 seconds, I wouldnt do that, but hasn't every 1 wanted to KNOW how to do something they aren't nessecarily "allowed" to do at 1 point? I am just asking for knowledge purposes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chowderhead72 13 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) 14.5 gas block will have to be moved. If the dealer has a class 3 licence he can do it legally. ETA: under 18 will require porting in most cases. Every gun is different. Edited October 1, 2010 by Chowderhead72 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jdhonda810 29 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 14.5 gas block will have to be moved. If the dealer has a class 3 licence he can do it legally. ETA: under 18 will require porting in most cases. Every gun is different. word..this is the kind of material I am looking for, for knowledge purposes only. thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jestertoo 1 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) 14.5 gas block will have to be moved. If the dealer has a class 3 licence he can do it legally. ETA: under 18 will require porting in most cases. Every gun is different. Incorrect. There is no "class 3 license" to manufacture title 2 weapons. You can make an SBS in one of two ways 1) Form 1 it yourself, pay $200 tax, engrave with your info and then cut barrel 2) Pay an 07FFL/02SOT to register it for you, do the work and then transfer it to you for $200 You can cut to 14.5" w/o moving the gas block and without opening up the ports and run only high brass. You can also cut to 14.5" and open up the gas ports in the stock location to run target loads, at the expense of having more crud to clean from the gas piston area.. Really no big deal to clean it out every now and then. If you want to go SHORTER than 14.5, moving the gas block is the recommended solution, especially if you want to run light loads. ETA: I know this is an old post, but I found it via search and it needed to be corrected. Edited January 18, 2013 by JesterToo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I think I could make one run bulk with the addition of factory sized ports at about 12.5". I do things a bit differently than most. This stuff isn't rocket science. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMTIMTIM 57 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Mine is cut and I have a permenantly attached monster break. It works fine. My bolt and trigger are polished also. I have 3 unrestricted ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HillBilly2 9 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 No need to thread the barrel if your going to permanently attach a muzzle device. Just slide it over the barrel & silver solder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
American Capitalist 7 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 18" is minimum. I wouldn't go below 18.25" just in case. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vance665 225 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 No need to thread the barrel if your going to permanently attach a muzzle device. Just slide it over the barrel & silver solder. Wouldn't you have to remove the threads inside the muzzle device for it to fit over the barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 No need to thread the barrel if your going to permanently attach a muzzle device. Just slide it over the barrel & silver solder. Wouldn't you have to remove the threads inside the muzzle device for it to fit over the barrel? Yes, unless it is one of those "slide on" deals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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