BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 I drove to the woods yesterday and tested out my new S12 enhancements. My standard of reliable cycling is when the weapon consistently cycles round when fired from the hip. - Federal Bulk Target load from Walmart did cycle reliably on the 5th setting, as did the Independence target loads, but neither ejected very far. - All buckshot, including some Remington 3" shells, required the 4th settings. - Standard Winchester 2.75" slugs worked on 3". - Some weird Winchester defensive load, consisting of a slug and 3 buckshot balls, which I picked up at Walmart in order to test it out, required the 5th setting. Must be some "reduced recoil" type of crap. I might be a bit undergassed here. I remember reading that the TwisterPuc might actually weakens the cycling action a bit. I will try the V-Plug with the standard gas puck later. Any way, I did have quite a bit of fun, doing a couple of drum dumbs and demolishing some dry tree stumps and vegetation. Picked up all the empty shells afterwards, along with some trash that some other people left there before (don't like littering the beautiful outdoors here). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Yes, try the standard puck. I think you will be GTG then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Mine cycled better without the TwisterPuc....better with the stock puck or the Kings Armory puck. I dunno why. Not going to get into analytics but will share experience. I think these things vary wildly from gun to gun. So your mileage may vary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Mine cycled better without the TwisterPuc....better with the stock puck or the Kings Armory puck. I dunno why. Not going to get into analytics but will share experience. I think these things vary wildly from gun to gun. So your mileage may vary. I haven't heard many good things about the twisterpuc... As for your signature, I have to question your wording, are you talking about a big-block short block, or a small-block short block? If small block, then what again, are we talking about here Gen I or Gen III/Gen IV? I mean really, it doesn't make you sound very credible, seven seconds is hard to attain without a power adder or alcohol... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) My gun ran 2 12 round surefire mags 100% clean with the factory puck and the gunfixer plug on setting 3. I installed the standard twister puck and it FTE at least 50% of the time with GF plug on setting 3 again. Goguns sent me a "larger" standard twister puck (along with a medium and a magnum twister puck), and KA sent me their puck, so I headed back to the range with another 100 pack of federal. The gun then ran 2 12 round surefire mags 100% clean with the KA puck and the auto plug tightened about 1/2 a turn. The "larger" standard twister puck FTE a lot with the auto plug so I put the gunfixer back in on setting 3 and it continued to FTE at least 50%. I then put the KA puck back in with the gunfixer plug on setting 3 and the gun again ran 100% clean with the surefire mags. My conclusions: - The Twister puck is useless in my low gassed mid barrel ported gun because it cycles the action weaker than the KA & the factory puck. - The KA puck allowed the gun to cycle as good or maybe even slightly better than the factory puck. - The gunfixer on setting 3 cycles the gun stronger than the autoplug regardless of how tight the auto plug cap screw is set. - A "short block" is an engine block with a rotating assembly. No heads or valve train. - A seven second quarter mile takes a lot more than just a "short block", or even a small block chevy. Edited October 23, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 - A "short block" is an engine block with a rotating assembly. No heads or valve train.- A seven second quarter mile takes a lot more than just a "short block", or even a small block chevy. A short block is an engine design. A block is the spinner assembly without the heads etc. Yes there are a few other parts I need. To lazy list them and most "normal" folks get that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Mine cycled better without the TwisterPuc....better with the stock puck or the Kings Armory puck. I dunno why. Not going to get into analytics but will share experience. I think these things vary wildly from gun to gun. So your mileage may vary. I haven't heard many good things about the twisterpuc... As for your signature, I have to question your wording, are you talking about a big-block short block, or a small-block short block? If small block, then what again, are we talking about here Gen I or Gen III/Gen IV? I mean really, it doesn't make you sound very credible, seven seconds is hard to attain without a power adder or alcohol... Thanks for the belly laugh......you need to go to the drag races and watch the A/EA Comp division and come back and say that friend. Few (not all) of my toys.........all short blocks with no power adders of any kind. This is a LS3 Short Block...as this car sets it runs low 14 sec 1/4 mile.100% Street legal. This is a 408 Iron Block stuffed in a 2004 GTO...again a short block with no power adders....as it sits it runs high tens in the 1/4 mile...consistently with zero power adders but lots and lots of frame/suspension and drive-train modifications.100% Street legal. My class in the NHRA is A/EA Comp No power adders and runs mid 7's all day long. Not Street legal. ENNIS, Texas - SUMMIT FastNews - Order after one round of qualifying in Competition Eliminator at the NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing Series, 25th annual O'Reilly Super Start Batteries NHRA Fall Nationals presented by Castrol Syntec: Psn Driver Class Index ET Ov/Un 1. Bruno Massel DD/AT 7.74 7.203 -0.537 2. David Rampy A/EA 7.84 7.308 -0.532 3. Chase Williams E/A 8.36 7.829 -0.531 4. Pete Carbery B/A 7.56 7.053 -0.507 5. Kevin Self F/EA 8.49 7.985 -0.505 6. Todd Patterson A/SMA 8.52 8.022 -0.498 7. Will Hatcher A/DA 7.13 6.634 -0.496 8. Clark Smiley C/A 7.95 7.491 -0.459 9. Mike Trumble A/SMA 8.52 8.074 -0.446 10. Keith Hall D/SM 8.98 8.534 -0.446 11. Rick Brown F/AA 8.49 8.069 -0.421 12. Terry Ticel G/AA 8.91 8.494 -0.416 13. Chris McGaha D/A 8.26 7.853 -0.407 14. Darin West F/AA 8.49 8.087 -0.403 15. Duane Robison C/A 7.95 7.554 -0.396 16. Jody Holland L/AA 9.50 9.140 -0.360 17. Bill Morse B/SMA 8.66 8.310 -0.350 18. Greg Porter G/SMA 9.30 8.956 -0.344 19. Ray Goodman A/EA 7.84 7.564 -0.276 20. Michael Johnson A/EA 7.84 7.589 -0.251 21. Brad Klein B/AP 7.84 7.609 -0.231 22. Cordis Johnson G/SMA 9.30 9.090 -0.210 23. Adam White A/ND 7.42 7.229 -0.191 24. Dennis Smiley B/DA 7.39 11.765 4.375 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 Gee whiz Wally...I hope my "credibility" passes your expert review. LOL...............The internet...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 - A "short block" is an engine block with a rotating assembly. No heads or valve train.- A seven second quarter mile takes a lot more than just a "short block", or even a small block chevy. A short block is an engine design. A block is the spinner assembly without the heads etc. Yes there are a few other parts I need. To lazy list them and most "normal" folks get that A block is a bare block. A short block is a block + rotating assembly. A long block is a short block + heads & valve train. A turn key is a long block + carb, pan, dist & everything else. The term small block & big block is what I believe you are referring to. Also referred to as mouse & rat motors. I agree most "normal" folk don't split hairs when they hear someone use the term short block when referring to a small block mouse motor. But this is the internet. To back up my statements I googled "short block", and this is the top hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_block "Short block is an automotive term describing an engine sub-assembly. A short block is the portion of the engine block below the head gasket but above the oil pan. An in-block cam engine will also include the camshaft and timing gear. The overhead cam style of engine will not include the aforementioned parts on the shortblock. A shortblock is usually purchased to upgrade the water jacket, piston size or bore. Assemblies typically include the crankshaft installed and balanced along with the main bearing." There are also several hits to engine builders & machine shops that sell short blocks as a bare block + rotating assembly, and long blocks as a short block + heads. Nice cars you have there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 (edited) Based on the pics you posted at the bottom, are we to believe you are David Rampy of Piedmont, Ala? http://www.teamsimpsonracing.com/fpdb/images/David_Rampy.jpg Edited October 23, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 - A "short block" is an engine block with a rotating assembly. No heads or valve train.- A seven second quarter mile takes a lot more than just a "short block", or even a small block chevy. A short block is an engine design. A block is the spinner assembly without the heads etc. Yes there are a few other parts I need. To lazy list them and most "normal" folks get that A block is a bare block. A short block is a block + rotating assembly. A long block is a short block + heads & valve train. A turn key is a long block + carb, pan, dist & everything else. The term small block & big block is what I believe you are referring to. Also referred to as mouse & rat motors. I agree most "normal" folk don't split hairs when they hear someone use the term short block when referring to a small block mouse motor. But this is the internet. To back up my statements I googled "short block", and this is the top hit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_block "Short block is an automotive term describing an engine sub-assembly. A short block is the portion of the engine block below the head gasket but above the oil pan. An in-block cam engine will also include the camshaft and timing gear. The overhead cam style of engine will not include the aforementioned parts on the shortblock. A shortblock is usually purchased to upgrade the water jacket, piston size or bore. Assemblies typically include the crankshaft installed and balanced along with the main bearing." There are also several hits to engine builders & machine shops that sell short blocks as a bare block + rotating assembly, and long blocks as a short block + heads. Nice cars you have there. Thanks...LOL....I will never get "used to" the internet.....Since the early 60's when I got into cars we refer to the small block as the short block....always have and always will. Old farts I run with...if you refer to a "short block" as a "small block" you will get some funny looks...... Point is this kid sez you can't run 7's with either one anyway...right? Just aint true at all.....But I did get a good laugh....hell I seen with my own two eyeballs a guy put a 283 Chevy in a freaking motorcycle and run 6's...no power adder I wouldn't do it! Based on the pics you posted at the bottom, are we to believe you are David Rampy of Piedmont, Ala? http://www.teamsimpsonracing.com/fpdb/images/David_Rampy.jpg Rampy is a God among men. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) Well, all of the "old guys" are FUCKING WRONG!!! A short block can be either a small or big block, it is an engine with no heads, intake, cam, lifters, pushrods, or intake.... For example: and I'll type it in big letters, just like on your jitterbug! A BLOCK, CRANK, CONNECTING RODS, AND PISTONS, THAT'S IT!!! A big block is a big block (the definition depends on which manufacturer you are talking about)... A small block is a small block. Next you're gonna tell me that you can't have a 454 small block... No, this, "kid" didn't say that you COULDN'T run 7's without a power adder, I just said that it's very HARD TO DO... Yeah, it's that whole reading and comprehension thing, it really sucks because all of the little squiggly lines on the screen actually form words, which form sentences, which form paragraphs, and so-on... The thing that sucks about it is that you have to read ALL of those little squiggly lines... I stand by what I said, it's EXTREMELY hard to run 7 second quarter miles IN A FUCKING CAR on a SMALL BLOCK CHEVY without alcohol or a power adder... Edited October 24, 2010 by Caged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Wow, you have a 7 second Goat and a 10 second fifth-gen 'maro, all that proves is that you can write checks... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackback 135 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 (edited) For all the Government Motors haters our there ... here's a certain Camaro killer for ya. Even with 48 extra cubes and often 3 times the budget they still suck fumes. Also, my .02 on the short block / small block impasse... I have always heard, understood, and acknowledged what CAGED and hobbyshooter have said regarding just what a short block is. My 5.0 is a SMALL block or a Mouse. It is not a short block or it would not even crank as it would be incomplete. If i had a '69 428 SCJ it would be a BIG block or a RAT. Also, the Summit catalog agrees with this worldview so.. Edited October 24, 2010 by 690gr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I have a short block.... Cadillac 500, but it won't do a damn thing without a set of heads. Without heads, the compression is kinda low (0). Does that mean I can run a turbo or twins without any further mods? WTF are we talking about here? Smoothbores or engines? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 For all the Government Motors haters our there ... here's a certain Camaro killer for ya. Even with 48 extra cubes and often 3 times the budget they still suck fumes. Also, my .02 on the short block / small block impasse... I have always heard, understood, and acknowledged what CAGED and hobbyshooter have said regarding just what a short block is. My 5.0 is a SMALL block or a Mouse. It is not a short block or it would not even crank as it would be incomplete. If i had a '69 428 SCJ it would be a BIG block or a RAT. Also, the Summit catalog agress with this worldview so.. I have munched on MANY small block Chevy's with mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Sarge 34 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Wow, you have a 7 second Goat and a 10 second fifth-gen 'maro, all that proves is that you can write checks... Lord man! Calm down and learn to read. Nobody said shit about a 7 second GTO or a 10 second Camaro. WTF is your problem anyway? I build engines. So fucking what? You call them any fucking thing you would like and we both will be happy. But reading and comprehension could be your friend. I dont own every Comp Eliminator...I build engines. I own two shops...started as a hobby and went from there....Whoopi fucking Doo. Lord ...the idiots on the internet is overwhelming. Write checks? Did you forget your meds or something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Sounds like some of the "old timers" are confusing short block / long block with early Hemi low deck(331)/tall deck(354/392). Also Mopar low deck 383,400/tall deck 413,426,440! NONE of witch has a damned thing to do with short block (no heads)/long block (with heads). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superdrag67 11 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 This thread got off base fast. I have to ask though, thats a mistype right? Your LS3 camaro runs low 14's?? I don't think I would be proud of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 LOL. WTF happened to my topic?!? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 LOL. WTF happened to my topic?!? Sorry dude, my ADD kicked in, back to our previously scheduled topic... I've heard the twisterpuc allows you to go longer between cleanings but due to the way it's designed, gas gets by it so it would naturally work well on an over-gassed gun but not so well on an under-gassed gun... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Wow, you have a 7 second Goat and a 10 second fifth-gen 'maro, all that proves is that you can write checks... Lord man! Calm down and learn to read. Nobody said shit about a 7 second GTO or a 10 second Camaro. WTF is your problem anyway? I build engines. So fucking what? You call them any fucking thing you would like and we both will be happy. But reading and comprehension could be your friend. I dont own every Comp Eliminator...I build engines. I own two shops...started as a hobby and went from there....Whoopi fucking Doo. Lord ...the idiots on the internet is overwhelming. Write checks? Did you forget your meds or something? Sorry, I'm used to seeing the picture and then reading the caption underneath... So, you're proud of having an LS3 Camaro that runs low 14's??? Uh, dude, that's what my '77 'vette runs and it's got 150 less horsepower.... the '10 Camaro runs low thirteens STOCK... You made it slower... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ErikTaylor 41 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I was just recently forced to put the stock puck back into my S12. I had the standard twister and successfully put a few thousand rounds through it without any problems. However during my last cleaning it was really difficult to take out... to the point to where I put an an extended socket attachment through the chamber side of the gas tube and pounded the puck out with a hammer. I figured it was just dirty. So then I scraped/cleaned all the plastic and burnt powder from it, which wasn't anything out of the ordinary, and the attempted to put it back in. I couldn't get it back in. I spent about 20 minutes fiddling with it, and they took the stock puck and put it back in without any problems. I don't know if the metal somehow expanded or what, but it just wouldn't fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenman223 460 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 look at the back side of the puck and see if you can see any signs of mushrooming. see if the gogun USA letters are pressed in any. if they are thats probably why it wont go back in. the end that goes in first is probably mushroomed out a couple thousandths, just enough to keep it from going back in. this would explain having to beat it out. of course E-tac will claim that you mushroomed it by beating it out because apparently its not possible for these twister pucks to mushroom! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ErikTaylor 41 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 look at the back side of the puck and see if you can see any signs of mushrooming. see if the gogun USA letters are pressed in any. if they are thats probably why it wont go back in. the end that goes in first is probably mushroomed out a couple thousandths, just enough to keep it from going back in. this would explain having to beat it out. of course E-tac will claim that you mushroomed it by beating it out because apparently its not possible for these twister pucks to mushroom! That can be the only conclusion. I even tried lightly tapping it back in because forget trying to put it back in by hand. I don't abuse my weapons other than how they should be and I know I haven't done anything to cause by user error. None the less the stock one goes right back into place so I believe something is faulty with my puck. Do they use an inferior metal or something? I don't want to start internet rumors about a company because I know how annoying that can get. However something isn't right. Has this happened to other people? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenman223 460 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) look at the back side of the puck and see if you can see any signs of mushrooming. see if the gogun USA letters are pressed in any. if they are thats probably why it wont go back in. the end that goes in first is probably mushroomed out a couple thousandths, just enough to keep it from going back in. this would explain having to beat it out. of course E-tac will claim that you mushroomed it by beating it out because apparently its not possible for these twister pucks to mushroom! That can be the only conclusion. I even tried lightly tapping it back in because forget trying to put it back in by hand. I don't abuse my weapons other than how they should be and I know I haven't done anything to cause by user error. None the less the stock one goes right back into place so I believe something is faulty with my puck. Do they use an inferior metal or something? I don't want to start internet rumors about a company because I know how annoying that can get. However something isn't right. Has this happened to other people? what does it look like? are the letters mashed in? if so then thats probably what happened. either way i would say thats exactly what happened. yes there have been other reports of the same thing. a guy from another company came on here a few weeks ago and was offering to replace any twister puck with his puck, which he claims is the original design that etac copied. i dont know anything about that but he posted some pics of a twister puc that had mushroomed and seems like he said they had to beat it out. he posted pics of measurments with a mic. on both ends and the bottom was clearly mushroomed. as far inferior metal i dont know, they claim it is made of pre-hardened 17-4 stainless but take a look at my twister puck in the "twister puck poll" thread. Do you have a Mic. you can measure it with or can you post a picture of the back side? Apparently E-tac has Never in there history had a single part fail. NEVER. they stated this several times during that little episode but i would say that your puck has certainly failed. i would also say that my rusty puck has failed, so that makes 2 twister pucks that have failed recently. i have NOTHING against them personally just stating the facts as i see them. you should give them a call and tell them what's going on they should replace it, they might even offer to send you a whole set since it has indeed FAILED!! Edited October 25, 2010 by big-J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ErikTaylor 41 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 (edited) I have a mic here and you can see the light ring where the threading started digging into the twister puck where it was too big. The part where the lettering is I'd say slightly mushroomed (as in the outer 1/5 of the puck face is slightly higher than the other 4/5's (where the piston hits)). There is definitely a slight indentation. Well, I measured the edge where the lettering is and it reads .820 in diameter and the part that wouldn't fit in the gun reads .840. Here are some pics: Edited October 25, 2010 by ErikTaylor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenman223 460 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 so the top half has expanded? that doesnt even make sense the pics that were posted befor the bottom side where the lettering is was expanded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ErikTaylor 41 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Yea I don't get it. I'm not looking for something for free as I did shoot the hell out of it (about 95% of it being birdshot). I just figured I spent $20 out of it so I got $20 of use out of it. Here is a pic of the lettering... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zenman223 460 Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Yea I don't get it. I'm not looking for something for free as I did shoot the hell out of it (about 95% of it being birdshot). I just figured I spent $20 out of it so I got $20 of use out of it. Here is a pic of the lettering... yes but that should not happen ever, ive never heard of a factory puck expanding. it should last the life of the gun. you are at the least entitled to a replacement and im sure etac will have no problem sending you one they do seem to have pretty good customer service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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