Which gun to upgrade first 74 or s-12?

[redfish28 50]

Hi ya'll,

 

I live in Texas, pretty close to the border. If you watch the news I don't have to tell you how dangerous things are down here. I have an Ak 74 and a S-12 and don't know which one to make as my primary weapon. I need help deciding so that I can start upgrading one of them. So which one do you think would be better. I don't live in the city if that helps. I want to improve the 74 so that I can see the sight better at night.(red dot and mount or night sights.) The S-12 needs to be full converted. Money is always an issue. Both will eventually get done just want a nudge where to start.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Hi ya'll,

 

I live in Texas, pretty close to the border. If you watch the news I don't have to tell you how dangerous things are down here. I have an Ak 74 and a S-12 and don't know which one to make as my primary weapon. I need help deciding so that I can start upgrading one of them. So which one do you think would be better. I don't live in the city if that helps. I want to improve the 74 so that I can see the sight better at night.(red dot and mount or night sights.) The S-12 needs to be full converted. Money is always an issue. Both will eventually get done just want a nudge where to start.

 

The AK-74 is a great platform, and an excellent rifle - but let's face it - when you are potentially dealing singlehandely with cross border incursions on your own turf, you NEED a force multiplier. You can put more lead downrange faster with an off the shelf semi auto S12 than you could with even a full auto AK-74. With a properly tuned tactical S12, there is absolutely no question that you have an absolute (close quarters) tactical advantage over the M4s and AKs that the Zetas carry.

 

With regard to range - I have seen SWAT officers consistently hit a hard silhouette, center of mass, at 200 yards with HK iron sights on a semi auto 12.5" short barreled S12.

 

That combination of range and raw firepower is simply unbeatable in my opinion.

 

Whatever you choose for personal defense, you are absolutely correct to be asking these questions. There is no doubt that the border war has come to us.

 

Mike

[MN.9130 44]

My vote's on the -74: sounds like it's already in the military configuration, and if money is an issue, 5.45 is king. If it's a red dot you're after, I would recommend the Ultimak M1-B and a Primary Arms Gen 7: I'm about to pull the trigger on this myself. The setup will co-witness with your AK irons, so even if you decide to go night sights later, you're good to go. Total cost will be under $200 shipped for the Ultimak/Gen 7. After 45 minutes of internet digging on night sights, I can't say I found anything I was crazy over: some of the best documented stuff uses an intentionally large front sight: not my cup of tea. The Meprolight ML-33115 set seems inexpensive and has a thinner front post, but I didn't find a wealth of knowledge on it. I'd recommend the dot, then the sights, in that order.

 

You'll pay out the ears to get a S-12 this far, and then you'll pay again each time you go shooting, unless you spend even MORE to get it set up to run low brass.

 

Am I biased? Sure, I'm a rifle guy.

 

Purchase ammo and range time, and use both. Take the savings and take a carbine course, NRA or whatever else is being offered close by. Call up your local ranges, ask them what's being offered.

Edited November 1, 2010 by MN.9130

[redfish28 50]

Daniel I'm sorry but I'm further south.

 

 

 

 

MN.9130 good advice.

 

 

 

Waffen can't argue that the S-12 is a powerhouse. 2oo yards is further than I would have thought an S-12 could be effective. Thats awesome.

[zenman223 460]

Waffenshcmied said it best. the S-12 is a very devastating weapon at close to medium range. I just posted in another topic about how that is the reason i bought my S-12. i believe it is one of the most devastating weapons availble, including full auto weapons. You can put so much more lead on target with an S-12 than with the 74. Not to mention with slugs and decent shooting your good out to 100 yards. 200 yards is pushing it but i have no doubt it can be done. besides if your making shots out to 100 yards most likely you will be in big trouble b/c its not likely to be in a self defense situation with ranges of 100 yards even it its with Mexican drug traffickers. a shotgun with 00 buck is about as good as it gets for home defense and the Saiga-12 is King of the shotgun!!

 

i say focus on the Saiga-12, its immensely more versatile and will be a better fighting weapon as long as it runs properly.plus with the shotgun you can reduce the chance of overpenetration or traveling through several walls in your home. of course regular 00 buck will but other ammo wont. did i mention its immensely more versatile?

Edited November 1, 2010 by big-J

[Paulyski 2,227]

I'm saying S-12.

 

Being an American & actually having laws to have to live by, I doubt you'll be taking pot-shots at drug cartels from your house... Maybe you would, but I wouldn't wanna start a war with a drug cartel that knew where I lived.

 

You're more likely to have to defend yourself, & for that purpose, you can't beat the S-12.

If it was a war with opposing armies, the AK-74 round would be helpful, but if you're shooting someone 200 yards away, in the current situation down there, it's a kinda hard sell for a self defense case.

 

I'd say keep a Russian 8 round mag in the gun with 3" Magnum .00 Buck chambered, 7 rounds of .00 buck in the mag first, then top off the mag with a slug.

Reason being, the slug pressing against a closed bolt won't deform like shot will, so reliability won't be compromised.

 

For those who may think I'm irresponsible for keeping my gun locked & loaded...

If I have to use it, I'll likely be reacting to someone else's actions.

If they make the first move, they have the advantage of the element of surprise, so the defender is already at a disadvantage, especially if waking up to an invasion.

 

The split second of fumbling as you awaken to disengage the safety & rack a shell in could cost you your life.

Now if you leave a loaded mag in & just keep the BHO engaged, a drop or bump could knock the charging handle & chamber a shell, so now you have a loaded 12 gauge falling with no safety on....

I just keep mine ready to rock & roll with a flip of the safety.

 

Just my .02 cents.

 

Good luck.

[TARE 47]

You should price out the upgrades that you would get for either, and see which one is more feasible for you currently. I have an AK-74 and and s12 and I would grab the SAIGA for home defense, unless there was a shit load of people to deal with.

 

You could get nights sights for the Ak-74 for around 100 for good ones, but there is also far cheaper glow paints for this kind of thing.

 

You could also just upgrade you're sights on the SAIGA12 for now.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

I think it all depends on the area you live in. If you live in a typical suburban area where you might have to defend your home or face the possibility of a car jacking or street shootout I say the S12 will be the best bet. If you live on a ranch or farm and have good sight lines and can see someone rustling your livestock or stealing you property then the 74 can be used to reach out and discourage this behavior.

 

I have both nearby and ready to go, but I live in the burbs and the S12 will work for me in 80% of the issues that might arise...

[Paulyski 2,227]

I think it all depends on the area you live in. If you live in a typical suburban area where you might have to defend your home or face the possibility of a car jacking or street shootout I say the S12 will be the best bet. If you live on a ranch or farm and have good sight lines and can see someone rustling your livestock or stealing you property then the 74 can be used to reach out and discourage this behavior.

 

I have both nearby and ready to go, but I live in the burbs and the S12 will work for me in 80% of the issues that might arise...

Can we still shoot people for cattle rustling?

Does the castle doctrine cover that in castle doctrine states?

 

If so cool.

[PRISONSHANK 70]

I'm going to totally agree with MN.9130...

You said yourself your not in the city, and a 74 should make shots out to 300 yards fairly accurately.

If you were to have to bug out of your position it would be much easier to carry more ammo/mags with the 74.

I highly recommend an ultimak co-witness set-up, its an amazing upgrade to ak iron sights.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I'm going to totally agree with MN.9130...

You said yourself your not in the city, and a 74 should make shots out to 300 yards fairly accurately.

 

Yes, definitely. There is a guy in the 5.45 section posting targets of an Appleseed shot where he was hitting 500 yard targets with a 5.45.

 

As for the shotgun, I have never done 200 yards with standard foster/brenneke shaped slugs but looking at ballistics tables, the slug falls 36" low and slows down to 880fps by that range. Combine that with all-lead projectile, soft consistency and shape, and I can't see the slug being very effective at that range (though I definitely wouldn't want to stand at the 200 yard line either). The Box o Truth did some penetration tests and the 12g slugs did not even penetrate a soft vest at 25 yards. So while I'm sure it's possible to hit stuff at 200 yards, I can't imagine it to be very humane (read: effective) to hunt with at that range.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I vote "C": neither one.

 

Get yourself a 7.62x39 rifle for your "primary" weapon role.

[mgconnor13 206]

Since you live in a fairly open area I'd go with the 74. My S12 is my CQB/ poor mans SMG. I keep my AK handy in case I decide I want to go on the offensive in an open area like the cotton and tobacco fields around here or I'm dealing with large groups.

 

Real world I would be comfortable fighting with either one.

Your 74 is already battle ready as is. Sights are nice, so is a tac light, not necessary but SUPER helpful to have.

 

Use the ultimax rail and the use some sort of off set light mount. A micro dot can be pricey but there's some good options out there, I've been looking to replace my EOtech(it's just too big for the AK) I've been looking at a Bushnell 1x25 3 MOA red dot. I've seen them on sale for $100 plus shipping online

 

Here's my AK set up.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Rusty truck

[self_inflicted 70]

[mgconnor13 206]

Really you could use the 74 as is. Tritium sights or a red dot and a light can all be installed very quickly, then you would have a go to gun until you finish your S12. The S12 is going to take the most time and money to upgrade, but once your S12 is completed I'd use that. Putting a Russian red dot or a gas tube rail and a red dot on your 74 could be done for under $300 if you shop around.

 

WaffenSchmied is right about the shotgun being able to put A LOT of lead down range in a hurry. Like I said I view my S12 as my poor man's SMG because I can deliver more lead then an MP5 can. Say you have a 40rnd mag in a 9mm SMG that's the same # of projectiles as in 5 00 buckshot shells. A saiga can carry a lot more lead then that. =

 

For defense a shotgun is the best thing out there under 100 yards (may be able to use it a little farther depending on ammo and your set up)

 

Like I said my S12 is my close range weapon, so it's my primary weapon. I'd switch over to my 47 is if I'm going to be out in open terrain where I'm going to need to shoot over 100 yards consistently.

 

Ideally if you had some one with you, you can use the rifle for cover fire while you close with the shotgun.

[redfish28 50]

Thanks to everyone who has voted/ replied to this post. I am still thinking about which one to continue to mod, but everyone has brought up really good points and I find myself falling back in love with my S-12.

 

Self-Inflicted thanks for the video brother.