How are the Saiga-12's right out of the box..without all the mods?

[IQRaceworks 0]

I'm just about ready to dive in and buy my firs S12. The thing that keeps holding me back is that after reading through all of the forum posts, and trying to learn as much as possible.....it seems like they are a lot of work and money to get them running right. How do they run/function right out of the box? Are they reliable?

 

I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much time, labor, and money it's going to cost me to make one that is reliable and a good shooter. Is it manditory to do all of the mods I've been seeing (conversion, FCG mod, enlarging gas ports, changing the gas plug,polishing the carrier......on and on)?

 

Do any of you guys just keep them the way they come out of the box and not do all of those mods, and spend all of that extra money on them. I would like a reliable, fun to shoot, $450 semi-auto 12ga........not sure I want to have to put another $500+ in it + time to do the mods.

 

Any info would be great!!

 

Thanks

[EJ45 38]

I have converted one S12 and can only comment on that (there are folks here with LOTS more experience with them than me!) my S12 was a 3 hole 09 model. Out of the box it shot federal bulk on setting 2 without a single problem. Its YOUR shotgun and the mods can go from simple or very expensive depending on what sort of performance YOU expect from it. The stock trigger is pretty bad and the balance is a little off without a full conversion. If you are OK with this then just shoot the hell out of it and make sure it functions as its supposed to.

 

I have seen a few folks with a basically "stock" S12 who were happy with it. Myself .... I did a basic conversion and got the internals polished ... to me it was a night and day difference and I wouldn't hesitate to do another conversion if/when I add another Saiga to my collection.

 

Read as much as you can, shoot a lot and see what mods you think you would benefit from.

 

edit .... the mods themselves aren't all THAT time consuming or difficult ... its pretty rewarding to see what you can accomplish with a little know how

Edited December 26, 2010 by EJ45

[Skitterfish 10]

I got lucky with mine. It is a three hole made in 08 and ran great out of the box. I was able to run Walmart bulk on setting two with no issues and everything else on setting one. From what i understand the reliability of the guns can run from great to terrible from the factory. If you can, i would recommend taking out the gas plug before you buy one to see if the gas ports are all open and you have at least three. just a noobs two cents.

[Paulyski 2,227]

You read about all the problems, because that's the nature of a forum.

 

People who get a gun that runs great out of the box don't post questions.

 

So although they're a crap shoot, many run very well.

 

 

ETA;

if you're motivated, we can walk you through about anything.

Also, keep in mind that they do have a warranty. Many of us just PREFER to do our own work.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Paulyski

[JAldrich2008 28]

Mine ran pretty well. It would shoot Winchester AA and Remington Nitro all day, and was about 90% with Federal. I took of my gas block, and opened up my ports/added a fourth and it hasn't jammed since. If you have basic tools and knowledge, you can do anything with the help of this forum. Remember, these guns are an investment. If you set one up to run perfectly, it's gonna be worth some serious coin. I saw one here sell for $1000 within 2 hours of being posted, and it wasn't even heavily modified. So now I can justify all the money I've got into mine

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I have owned 3 S12s. They all needed varying degrees of attention. The first one needed very little, the second needed just about everything addressed, and I just threw the book at the third because I had found a recipe that worked for them. The first 2 were previously converted and the 3rd one was never fired before I tore it down to a barrel and receiver. It takes me about 14 hours to convert the weapon a go through every point of resistance, including porting. The result is worth the investment of time. If I were better set up, it wouldn't take as long, but I am limited by my tools and much of it is done with, Dremel, hobby files, and sandpaper.

 

ETA: If you are good with your hands, it doesn't take $500 to get them running good. High brass (high price, lol) ammo break in, funky springs, aftermarket plugs, and aftermarket pucks are not needed to make a S12 run well. I don't use any of them. Aftermarket plugs are useful to increase adjustability of the gas sytem, but do not "fix" an undergassed condition. Pucks are good for a compliance part if you need it. I think most of it is snake oil

Edited December 26, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

You read about all the problems, because that's the nature of a forum.

 

People who get a gun that runs great out of the box don't post questions.

 

So although they're a crap shoot, many run very well.

 

 

ETA;

if you're motivated, we can walk you through about anything.

Also, keep in mind that they do have a warranty. Many of us just PREFER to do our own work.

 

+1 on the 'PREFER'. With all due respect, the pros aren't the only ones here that can make a weapon run I understand why they charge as they do, but to have a pro go through a weapon is out of reach for many, especially in this day and time. Some DIY out of necessity. I do it because I enjoy it and I'm a cheap bastard. The less I spend on 'smithing, the more I can spend on the next weapon, ammo, or parts. I just sent my S12 out to TAC47 to have some rivets pressed. If I had a press, I would have done it myself. It killed me to send it out, but it was cheaper than a press and AK builder rivet tool.

[geepelton 105]

To put it simple: buy it, break it in, try cheap wally world bulk (not winchester), if it does not cycle reliable send it off to cadiz gun works for warranty work and it will cost you nothing, then enjoy!!!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Out of the box, Saiga 12s are pretty crappy.

 

They handle poorly, have a terrible trigger, are awkward to load/reload, and some also have reliability issues from the factory and/or canted sights.

 

The strength of the gun is the fun of converting it and making it run a lot better. Putting newer, better furniture on, polishing/tuning the insides and/or the gas ports, customizing it exactly the way you want it, etc. makes it a great shotgun and a lot of fun to own and work on.

 

Do any of you guys just keep them the way they come out of the box and not do all of those mods, and spend all of that extra money on them. I would like a reliable, fun to shoot, $450 semi-auto 12ga........not sure I want to have to put another $500+ in it + time to do the mods.

 

Unfortunately the Saiga-12 is likely not for you.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[YOT 3,743]

And just as a comparison..... a REM. 1187 new starts at about $800 on gun genie. Plus you'd have to add to add shipping, FFL fees, and taxes. Just sayin'

 

 

ETA: The Saiga becomes part of you.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Yeoldetool

[TwentyNizzo 66]

You read about all the problems, because that's the nature of a forum.

 

People who get a gun that runs great out of the box don't post questions.

 

So although they're a crap shoot, many run very well.

 

 

ETA;

if you're motivated, we can walk you through about anything.

Also, keep in mind that they do have a warranty. Many of us just PREFER to do our own work.

 

+1 on the 'PREFER'. With all due respect, the pros aren't the only ones here that can make a weapon run I understand why they charge as they do, but to have a pro go through a weapon is out of reach for many, especially in this day and time. Some DIY out of necessity. I do it because I enjoy it and I'm a cheap bastard. The less I spend on 'smithing, the more I can spend on the next weapon, ammo, or parts. I just sent my S12 out to TAC47 to have some rivets pressed. If I had a press, I would have done it myself. It killed me to send it out, but it was cheaper than a press and AK builder rivet tool.

 

Agreed, and also working on it yourself is incredibly fun and satisfying.

[Bvamp 604]

I have owned mine since 2003, havent modified it at ALL, and its jammed thrice in 12000 rounds.

[Parson Julabee Jones 32]

"They handle poorly, have a terrible trigger, are awkward to load/reload, and some also have reliability issues from the factory and/or canted sights."

 

As to handling, yes, my gun is heavy, large, and a bear to handle easily. It's hard to find a 'hand-hold' on the gun when magazines or drum are in place. But not enough so that I put it aside due to that. Ergos are a personal thing generally, and I like mine overall. I did JB Weld a 50 cent rubber cover over the charging handle, and that gives me much improvement when using the gun. I would however, like to see a last round bolt hold open marketed for this gun.

 

Triggerwise, I would have had my S12 converted long before now, had it not been for the trigger. For the life of me, I cannot see any replacement trigger actually doing better than the one my gun came with. It is a match to any trigger in any gun I have, and I do have some expensive guns with good triggers. I guess though, I could continue to use my stock trigger, even with conversion....

 

My reliability issues were dealt with easily enough with belt sander, Dremel tool, the info on this site, and elbow grease.

 

I figure there are at least two kinds of gun owners. First are those who buy their guns and use them with as little 'fiddling' to them as possible. Others enjoy the 'fiddling' (I'm a motorcycle owner, and enjoy the work I do to the bike, as much as riding the bike) with their guns, adding this and that, doing this and that to them. Yeah, I'm one of those 'fiddlers'....and enjoy it immensely.

 

PJJ

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

PJJ,

LRBHO is available from Cadiz Gun Works

 

You must have been sleeping in class that day

[GREYLUPO 358]

Dont listen to these other jokers who will tell you a stock saiga 12 sucks, they dont know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Ive had mine for almost a year, Ive got 840 rounds of 00 buckshot and 300 rounds of slugs through her and Ive never had one fucking problem, not one.

 

Ive wanted to convert mine for awhile now but Ive been busy buying other guns, buying and stocking ammo and buying mags for all my other weapons, a conversion can wait.

 

Ive also got a remington 870 express tactical and a mossberg 590a1, my stock saiga 12 is lighter and the trigger is better than the remmy or mossberg and its just all around handier.

 

If you know what you are doing, having a pimped out pistol griped internal polished quad railed saiga 12 will be no better or faster or deadlier than a stock one. Thats a fact.

 

Id say go for it, enjoy it, learn it, buy lots of ammo and mags for it, then down the road convert it if you want.

Edited December 27, 2010 by GREYLUPO

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Dont listen to these other jokers who will tell you a stock saiga 12 sucks, they dont know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Yeah, it's not like I owned a perfectly functional unconverted S-12 for about a year, that ran everything from 3" slugs to fed bulk birdshot. Not like I am speaking from actual, unbiased experience or anything. Don't mind me guys, I'm just making shit up

 

Ive had mine for almost a year, Ive got 840 rounds of 00 buckshot and 300 rounds of slugs through her and Ive never had one fucking problem, not one.

 

No offense, but a thousand rounds of full power loads is not a showing of reliability. Even the worst vodka specials will cycle buckshot and slugs fine.

 

How does your gun run Federal Bulk Pack? Winchester Bulk Pack? On setting 1 or 2? How many gas ports do you have? Is your block canted?

 

Not saying your gun is a vodka special, just letting you know that running full power loads is nothing to brag about, as even the worst guns will do that.

 

Ive also got a remington 870 express tactical and a mossberg 590a1, my stock saiga 12 is lighter and the trigger is better than the remmy or mossberg and its just all around handier.

 

I understand things like balance and trigger are subjective, but I have a hard time believing that an unconverted S-12 handles just as well as a purpose-built tube fed. I've also owned a stock S-12 alongside Remingtons, Mossbergs and Ithacas and the comparison is not even close. The grip angle on the S-12 is jacked up and it doesn't swing or point half as good as any of those. I wouldn't expect it to. It would be a very poor contest to compare a neutered, after-thought contraption like a stock S-12 to a purpose built pump. It simply isn't a fair contest.

 

If you know what you are doing, having a pimped out pistol griped internal polished quad railed saiga 12 will be no better or faster or deadlier than a stock one. Thats a fact.

 

Yes, and a single shot NEF will take a buck or stop an attacker just the same if you're skilled too. It's not a very good analogy to use.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Triggerwise, I would have had my S12 converted long before now, had it not been for the trigger. For the life of me, I cannot see any replacement trigger actually doing better than the one my gun came with. It is a match to any trigger in any gun I have, and I do have some expensive guns with good triggers. I guess though, I could continue to use my stock trigger, even with conversion....

 

I would suggest you handle a converted gun with an Arsenal or other brand trigger. They are an immense improvement over it. Personally I like the Arsenal trigger as it is just right, takes a nice firm, hard pull with a pronounced break at the end, lends itself very well to accuracy and will not bump fire. I'm not sure how the factory Saiga-12 trigger could possibly stand up to other triggers. I have had/handled Remington, Mossberg, Ithaca and Browning semi-autos and they all make a stock Saiga's trigger feel like a squishy pile of dog shit. I understand things like trigger pull are subjective, but I'm not sure how the after-thought jerry-rigged S-12 factory trigger could possibly be better than any purpose built trigger. I've never once seen a person convert their gun and not say the trigger was a million times better afterwards.

 

The Saiga-12 shotgun is meant to be in AK-style configuration, the entire trigger and stock system is an afterthought, and the only reason it exists is due to our import laws., if not for them these guns would be coming over in proper pistol grip configuration with a regular trigger.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[GREYLUPO 358]

Dont listen to these other jokers who will tell you a stock saiga 12 sucks, they dont know what the hell they are talking about.

 

Yeah, it's not like I owned a perfectly functional unconverted S-12 for about a year, that ran everything from 3" slugs to fed bulk birdshot. Not like I am speaking from actual, unbiased experience or anything. Don't mind me guys, I'm just making shit up

 

Ive had mine for almost a year, Ive got 840 rounds of 00 buckshot and 300 rounds of slugs through her and Ive never had one fucking problem, not one.

 

No offense, but a thousand rounds of full power loads is not a showing of reliability. Even the worst vodka specials will cycle buckshot and slugs fine.

 

How does your gun run Federal Bulk Pack? Winchester Bulk Pack? On setting 1 or 2? How many gas ports do you have? Is your block canted?

 

Not saying your gun is a vodka special, just letting you know that running full power loads is nothing to brag about, as even the worst guns will do that.

 

 

 

 

No classy I dont think you know what you are talking about, not all the time.

 

Im sure Ill get a half page of why im wrong with some :rolleyes: faces or maybe a couple of :lolol: faces thrown in

and maybe even a funny random internet pic expressing how you feel.

 

 

 

Im pretty damn sure I dont have a vodka special, like I said I never had 1 problem. I dont shoot wally world special birdshot in my saiga 12 because well, I train like I would fight, with full loads

like the gun was made to shoot. Its 100%. I also shoot alot with my other 2 shotguns plus a ton of .45, 7.62x 39 and 51mm so thats alot of time and $$.

 

I will use my Remington or Mossberg if I want to shot birdshot, which I have on occasion when I shoot skeet.

 

Saying a stock saiga 12 shotgun sucks to a guy looking into one is just stupid and ignorant, but id expect it coming from a kid who

also said that that fag bradley manning should be hailed as an American hero.

 

I love my saiga 12 shotgun, its fast and reliable and fun. Will I like it more when I convert it? Time will tell

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Im pretty damn sure I dont have a vodka special, like I said I never had 1 problem. I dont shoot wally world special birdshot in my saiga 12 because well, I train like I would fight, with full loads

like the gun was made to shoot. Its 100%. I also shoot alot with my other 2 shotguns plus a ton of .45, 7.62x 39 and 51mm so thats alot of time and $$.

 

Once again, a thousand rounds of full power loads say nothing about your gun. I have a feeling you don't even know how many ports your gun has, or what size they are, or if your block is canted or not. How can you claim to know about your gun's reliability if you've never even tried to cycle any birdshot?

 

Don't worry, I don't need half a page to explain why you're wrong. It's very simple. A "vodka special" is actually a civilian line gun that gets mixed with a military line barrel. The military line guns are intended to be used only with buck and slugs, as Spetsnatz aren't going into combat with #7.5 shot. Since the gun is only intended to run buck and slugs, two small ports are more than plenty of gas to reliably cycle the action, and a restricted enough gas flow that the gun will not beat itself to death and have a shorter life span. This mix-up obviously causes problems to civillian shooters looking to use cheaper ammo for practice, as their two port gun won't cycle birdshot worth a crap. Luckily they are pretty rare for the most part, and out of the box, a majority of S-12s will be reliable enough to cycle birdshot on Setting 2.

 

Once again, any Saiga-12, be it tuned and polished or a vodka special, will cycle buckshot and slugs. That's nothing to brag about, and until you've tested your gun with birdshot (which it seems you won't out of some macho need to only shoot slugs) you are simply bragging about something any S-12 on the face of the earth can do. You may as well also brag that yours has a barrel and black paint on it too! But you say I don't know what I'm talking about?

 

And let's be honest here. The real reason you don't shoot birdshot is probably because the indoor range you go to does not allow it. Am I right?

 

Saying a stock saiga 12 shotgun sucks to a guy looking into one is just stupid and ignorant, but id expect it coming from a kid who

also said that that fag bradley manning should be hailed as an American hero.

 

I'm not sure what politics has to do with Saiga-12s, if you want to talk about Wikileaks why don't you bring it to the political section? This isn't the place for that trash and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate it if you kept your political stuff and pissing matches out of our gun related sections.

 

I didn't say that "a stock S-12 sucks to a guy looking at one". The original poster asked "If I'm looking to buy a shotgun and be done with it out of the box, is the Saiga-12 for me?" to which I explained why it is, in my opinion, not the gun for him. Plain and simple, the Saiga platform is a gun for people who enjoy working on them, tuning them, modifying them, etc. half the fun of these is doing the work on them.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[GREYLUPO 358]

Im pretty damn sure I dont have a vodka special, like I said I never had 1 problem. I dont shoot wally world special birdshot in my saiga 12 because well, I train like I would fight, with full loads

like the gun was made to shoot. Its 100%. I also shoot alot with my other 2 shotguns plus a ton of .45, 7.62x 39 and 51mm so thats alot of time and $$.

 

Once again, a thousand rounds of full power loads say nothing about your gun. I have a feeling you don't even know how many ports your gun has, or what size they are, or if your block is canted or not.

 

Don't worry, I don't need half a page to explain why you're wrong. It's very simple. A "vodka special" is actually a civilian line gun that gets mixed with a military line barrel. The military line guns are intended to be used only with buck and slugs, as Spetsnatz aren't going into combat with #7.5 shot. Since the gun is only intended to run buck and slugs, two small ports are more than plenty of gas to reliably cycle the action, and a restricted enough gas flow that the gun will not beat itself to death and have a shorter life span. This mix-up obviously causes problems to civillian shooters looking to use cheaper ammo for practice, as their two port gun won't cycle birdshot worth a crap. Luckily they are pretty rare for the most part, and out of the box, a majority of S-12s will be reliable enough to cycle birdshot on Setting 2.

 

Once again, any Saiga-12, be it tuned and polished or a vodka special, will cycle buckshot and slugs. That's nothing to brag about, and until you've tested your gun with birdshot (which it seems you won't out of some macho need to only shoot slugs) you are simply bragging about something any S-12 on the face of the earth can do. You may as well also brag that yours has a barrel and black paint on it too! But you say I don't know what I'm talking about?

 

And let's be honest here. The real reason you don't shoot birdshot is probably because the indoor range you go to does not allow it. Am I right?

 

Saying a stock saiga 12 shotgun sucks to a guy looking into one is just stupid and ignorant, but id expect it coming from a kid who

also said that that fag bradley manning should be hailed as an American hero.

 

I'm not sure what politics has to do with Saiga-12s, if you want to talk about Wikileaks why don't you bring it to the political section? This isn't the place for that trash and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate it if you kept your political stuff and pissing matches out of our gun related sections.

 

I didn't say that "a stock S-12 sucks to a guy looking at one". The original poster asked "If I'm looking to buy a shotgun and be done with it out of the box, is the Saiga-12 for me?" to which I explained why it is, in my opinion, not the gun for him. Plain and simple, the Saiga platform is a gun for people who enjoy working on them, tuning them, modifying them, etc. half the fun of these is doing the work on them.

 

 

 

 

Well all Ill say is I really like the saiga 12 platform, converted or not. If you shoot as much as I do, especially with shotguns, a stock saiga is really no problem. Its fast, its light, and its shorter than my Mossberg 590a1. They complaints about the trigger is null, its better than my other shotguns and I have no problems with it cause Im not trying to shoot sub moa groups at 100 yards with it.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Well all Ill say is I really like the saiga 12 platform, converted or not. If you shoot as much as I do, especially with shotguns, a stock saiga is really no problem. Its fast, its light, and its shorter than my Mossberg 590a1. They complaints about the trigger is null, its better than my other shotguns and I have no problems with it cause Im not trying to shoot sub moa groups at 100 yards with it.

 

Well, you backed down really fast. Tell me, I nailed it with the birdshot thing, didn't I?

 

Also, who the heck said they want to shoot sub-moa groups at 100 yards with a semi-shotgun?

 

Either way, thanks for your opinion, and it's a shame you had to come in here acting all arrogant and calling people out instead of just putting your thoughts out there in a constructive way like you did just now.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[GREYLUPO 358]

Well all Ill say is I really like the saiga 12 platform, converted or not. If you shoot as much as I do, especially with shotguns, a stock saiga is really no problem. Its fast, its light, and its shorter than my Mossberg 590a1. They complaints about the trigger is null, its better than my other shotguns and I have no problems with it cause Im not trying to shoot sub moa groups at 100 yards with it.

 

Well, you backed down really fast. Tell me, I nailed it with the birdshot thing, didn't I?

 

Also, who the heck said they want to shoot sub-moa groups at 100 yards with a semi-shotgun?

 

Either way, thanks for your opinion, and it's a shame you had to come in here acting all arrogant and calling people out instead of just putting your thoughts out there in a constructive way like you did just now.

 

 

 

 

Actually I didnt even respect you enough to read through your whole reply, so to save myself some time and brain cells I just replyed cause arguing with you wastes both. I know Im right and

what im talking about so who cares what some homo from Jersey who jerks off to my girlfriend thinks? :lolol:

 

Youre the one who took offence to what I wrote cause deep down you know your a dumbass and it reminded you of yourself. Thats a win for me in my book.

 

And I called it with your replys with the :lolol: and :rolleyes: and even a . too easy

Edited December 27, 2010 by GREYLUPO

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Dude, you can't be serious. You don't even know the first thing about gas ports, your indoor range doesn't allow you to shoot birdshot, but you want to come in here and tell other people they don't know what they're talking about? And be a gigantic douche bag about it in the process?

 

I guess I may as well lay of you now. You're just way too easy.

 

It's a shame that instead of learning a little about your shotgun and what it means to make an S-12 reliable, you'd rather throw middle school insults.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[bwade 38]

Honestly you are better off with a cheap pump then you are a stock Saiga 12.

 

Sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear, but it is the truth. For 500-600 dollars(whatever you end up paying for an S-12) a stock Saiga isn't worth it. If you decide to put the extra 150 bucks or whatever into restoring/converting the beast into what it should be then fuck yes it's worth it.

 

i have a nicely done but basic CGW S12(no mallninja bullshit) and it's just not a fair comparison to when it was in import configuration. Looking back.. to save some money I should have done the conversion myself but I wanted it done right with the holes welded up and the trigger done up so I spent a little more than what a basic job would entail.

 

In whatever you choose, good luck.

[GREYLUPO 358]

Dude, you can't be serious. You don't even know the first thing about gas ports, your indoor range doesn't allow you to shoot birdshot, but you want to come in here and tell other people they don't know what they're talking about? And be a gigantic douche bag about it in the process?

 

I guess I may as well lay of you now. You're just way too easy.

 

It's a shame that instead of learning a little about your shotgun and what it means to make an S-12 reliable, you'd rather throw middle school insults.

 

 

 

 

Well maybe in the shit state of Jersey they dont allow birdshot/buckshot in an indoor range, but up heres its no problem. In fact myself and my girlfriend are going to shoot 20 boxes of buck Wednesday with my

 

awesome trouble free S12 and Mossberg 590a1 as well as a few boxes of .45 for my HK, shall I take some pics for you? I can even throw some of my GF blasting away for your collection

 

I know all my weapons quite well thankyou, you assume too much.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Okay...

 

There we have it Boys and girls!!!

 

There's no guarantee.

It might run great, it might need tuning. If you want to shoot the lighter loads using the 3 port guns imported as of late, it may need a little tuning.

 

At any rate, if you run into issues, we can talk you through about anything, & remember, they ARE warrantied.

[Etek 32]

Mine ran 100% out of the box on EVERYTHING.

 

Still does.

[akkalish 1]

Greylupo? i do not see how you can come out swinging at a contributing member of this forum. He knows his shit and has been help to many of us out here. Grow up or get lost!!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Greylupo? i do not see how you can come out swinging at a contributing member of this forum. He knows his shit and has been help to many of us out here. Grow up or get lost!!

 

What's funny is he's been banned here before for being a jackass and apparently didn't get the hint.

 

going to shoot 20 boxes of buck Wednesday with my

 

awesome trouble free S12

 

For the fourth time, no one gives a shit that your S-12 can cycle buckshot. Everyone's can.

 

Oh and I can shoot pretty much anything that I want to at both clubs I go to. Unlike you, whose indoor range does not even allow birdshot so you have to pretend you're too macho to shoot birdshot

Edited December 27, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[GREYLUPO 358]

Greylupo? i do not see how you can come out swinging at a contributing member of this forum. He knows his shit and has been help to many of us out here. Grow up or get lost!!

 

What's funny is he's been banned here before for being a jackass and apparently didn't get the hint.

 

going to shoot 20 boxes of buck Wednesday with my

 

awesome trouble free S12

 

For the fourth time, no one gives a shit that your S-12 can cycle buckshot. Everyone's can.

 

Oh and I can shoot pretty much anything that I want to at both clubs I go to. Unlike you, whose indoor range does not even allow birdshot so you have to pretend you're too macho to shoot birdshot

 

 

Again you assume too much. How the hell would you know my range cant take birdshot? Damn youre a dick lol. Ill give you the number if you want to be proved wrong you can call them and ask yourself, they will allow everything from birdshot to .50 cal. I dont really care what your ranges in shit town New Jersey will allow, its in New Jersey!

 

Like I said I do shoot birdshot when I go skeet and trap shooting. My saiga is for buck and slugs only, cause thats the way I like it like it. Can you even have buckshot in that state?

I know they dont trust you people with hollowpoints or high cap mags or clean women