Looking to get into the AR platform

[echoside190 127]

For a while now I've wanted to get an AR rifle and I think I have it narrowed down. As far as price is concerned, I'm trying to stay under $1,000 for the base rifle so I'll still be able to get optics and what not for it. I'm after a flattop with the rail gas block to allow for front and back BUIS with a holographic site. It's purpose will basically just be for plinking, maybe some varmint hunting and as a backup rifle.

 

My first choice I've been looking at is a STAG Model 3:

 

 

The other is the DPMS Oracle:

 

As far as I can tell, the only difference is in the barrel where the STAG has a chrome lined barrel with the M4 style contour and the DPMS has a 4140 chrome-moly steel without the M4 profile on the barrel. If anyone has experience with either I'd like to know what you thought of it and which would be preferred quality wise. Other options would help as well, building one myself has run across my mind but I just don't see it getting done for a while given my schedule and other projects going on.

[EastWind 1]

For a while now I've wanted to get an AR rifle and I think I have it narrowed down. As far as price is concerned, I'm trying to stay under $1,000 for the base rifle so I'll still be able to get optics and what not for it. I'm after a flattop with the rail gas block to allow for front and back BUIS with a holographic site. It's purpose will basically just be for plinking, maybe some varmint hunting and as a backup rifle.

 

My first choice I've been looking at is a STAG Model 3:

 

 

The other is the DPMS Oracle:

 

As far as I can tell, the only difference is in the barrel where the STAG has a chrome lined barrel with the M4 style contour and the DPMS has a 4140 chrome-moly steel without the M4 profile on the barrel. If anyone has experience with either I'd like to know what you thought of it and which would be preferred quality wise. Other options would help as well, building one myself has run across my mind but I just don't see it getting done for a while given my schedule and other projects going on.

 

I've owned four Stags, a Stag model 1 was my first AR. I loved that rifle, put about 3k rounds of .223 downrange with it. Bought a drop in .22LR kit and put another 15k of that through it. I wasn't my best looking rifle but man that thing ran. In short I would recommend the Stag if you don't want to build one yourself.

[schultze13 354]

Check out spike's tactical there LE M4 is $799 with 1/7 chrome lined barrel. I know stags and DPMS uses 1/9. I have 3 spike's tacticals rifles and 1 pistol and I love them.

Make sure you get a chrome lined barrel and as far as the M4 profile all it is is a thinner barrel that allowes the mounting of a M203 and unless you plan on mounting a gernade lancher in does not matter. These companys market the M4 profile as a upgrade because that is what our military has on their guns and that little cutout make there guns cooler they think.

Edited January 30, 2011 by SCHULTZE

[GREYLUPO 358]

If you like ARs, Id check out the new Sig Sauer 516, its awesome. Also FN scar16 and ACR are some sweet high end offerings

[22_Shooter 1,560]

For a while now I've wanted to get an AR rifle and I think I have it narrowed down. As far as price is concerned, I'm trying to stay under $1,000 for the base rifle so I'll still be able to get optics and what not for it. I'm after a flattop with the rail gas block to allow for front and back BUIS with a holographic site. It's purpose will basically just be for plinking, maybe some varmint hunting and as a backup rifle.

 

My first choice I've been looking at is a STAG Model 3:

 

 

The other is the DPMS Oracle:

 

As far as I can tell, the only difference is in the barrel where the STAG has a chrome lined barrel with the M4 style contour and the DPMS has a 4140 chrome-moly steel without the M4 profile on the barrel. If anyone has experience with either I'd like to know what you thought of it and which would be preferred quality wise. Other options would help as well, building one myself has run across my mind but I just don't see it getting done for a while given my schedule and other projects going on.

 

I've owned four Stags, a Stag model 1 was my first AR. I loved that rifle, put about 3k rounds of .223 downrange with it. Bought a drop in .22LR kit and put another 15k of that through it. I wasn't my best looking rifle but man that thing ran. In short I would recommend the Stag if you don't want to build one yourself.

 

+1 to this. Nothing against DPMS, but I'd take a Stag over anything from DPMS, any day of the week. No hesitation. My first AR was a Stag and it ran like a champ, even on cheap Ruskie ammo.

 

One thing that will help even more in keeping the price down, is assembling your own lower. Get yourself a stripped lower, a LPK and a stock, and you'll definitely save some money in the process. Then just slap on a complete upper and you're good to go. All Stag uppers are available as stand-alone products.

 

If you can do a Saiga conversion (don't know if you have, just making an assumption here), you can easily install an LPK into a stripped lower. The good thing about stripped lowers is that, for the most part, they are all the same, assuming you stick with reputable companies. A $70 lower will do the same thing as a $160 Noveske lower.

 

So my final recommendation: Get a stripped lower and parts to assemble it, and slap a complete upper on it. It's quite a bit cheaper than buying a complete AR.

 

I used this video to do my first lower assembly:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4KfUaVp8M

 

It's stupid easy.

 

If you like ARs, Id check out the new Sig Sauer 516, its awesome. Also FN scar16 and ACR are some sweet high end offerings

 

Those will shatter his $1K base price point, though.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

I prefer Rock River Arms (RRA) over everyone, even Colt. You will find that most, if not all receivers are MIL SPEC and forged by only a handful of manufactures. If you want billet I would go with either Spikes or C3 (I have a C3 sbr). I have a billet receiver and let me say you can see the difference in the money spent over a forged receiver. Aside from that your fcg will be the biggest differance in the lower receiver.

 

I have built, bought and modded the AR playform. I call it a lego-gun because all parts basically pop on/off and it could be build from the ground up in about 1-1/2 hours providing you have all the parts and tools.

 

Enjoy,

MCASSgt New River.

[mgconnor13 206]

I have a stag upper on a lower I put together and it runs great.

DPMS are ok but they are the econo car of ARs. They spit lead but they aren't anything special

[Kliegl 304]

His selector said Peace and Firepower. That's almost as good as the Safe, Fire, Fuck Yeah

someone has as their avatar here.

[GREYLUPO 358]

For a while now I've wanted to get an AR rifle and I think I have it narrowed down. As far as price is concerned, I'm trying to stay under $1,000 for the base rifle so I'll still be able to get optics and what not for it. I'm after a flattop with the rail gas block to allow for front and back BUIS with a holographic site. It's purpose will basically just be for plinking, maybe some varmint hunting and as a backup rifle.

 

My first choice I've been looking at is a STAG Model 3:

 

 

The other is the DPMS Oracle:

 

As far as I can tell, the only difference is in the barrel where the STAG has a chrome lined barrel with the M4 style contour and the DPMS has a 4140 chrome-moly steel without the M4 profile on the barrel. If anyone has experience with either I'd like to know what you thought of it and which would be preferred quality wise. Other options would help as well, building one myself has run across my mind but I just don't see it getting done for a while given my schedule and other projects going on.

 

I've owned four Stags, a Stag model 1 was my first AR. I loved that rifle, put about 3k rounds of .223 downrange with it. Bought a drop in .22LR kit and put another 15k of that through it. I wasn't my best looking rifle but man that thing ran. In short I would recommend the Stag if you don't want to build one yourself.

 

+1 to this. Nothing against DPMS, but I'd take a Stag over anything from DPMS, any day of the week. No hesitation. My first AR was a Stag and it ran like a champ, even on cheap Ruskie ammo.

 

One thing that will help even more in keeping the price down, is assembling your own lower. Get yourself a stripped lower, a LPK and a stock, and you'll definitely save some money in the process. Then just slap on a complete upper and you're good to go. All Stag uppers are available as stand-alone products.

 

If you can do a Saiga conversion (don't know if you have, just making an assumption here), you can easily install an LPK into a stripped lower. The good thing about stripped lowers is that, for the most part, they are all the same, assuming you stick with reputable companies. A $70 lower will do the same thing as a $160 Noveske lower.

 

So my final recommendation: Get a stripped lower and parts to assemble it, and slap a complete upper on it. It's quite a bit cheaper than buying a complete AR.

 

I used this video to do my first lower assembly:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4KfUaVp8M

 

It's stupid easy.

 

If you like ARs, Id check out the new Sig Sauer 516, its awesome. Also FN scar16 and ACR are some sweet high end offerings

 

Those will shatter his $1K base price point, though.

 

I always say, at least to myself, If Im going to spend $1000 on a good weapon I might as well spend $1500 on a better weapon.

[echoside190 127]

Thanks for all the input guys. I've still got a week at least before I can even shop around with cash in hand so I'll look into pricing lowers and parts. I've looked at them a few times before and it looks like its all just a matter of dropping it in and pushing some pins into place, since an AR is basically an aluminum lead throwing LEGO set.

 

It looks easy but right now its knowing it theoretically and not knowing from experience.AR's have just been a subtle interest for a while now and I just decided I might as well get it over with and get a good starter to upgrade and get different uppers in the future.

 

On a side note, as far as an optic goes, I'm looking for a holographic or reflex sight to put on it. The max budget for one will probably fall in the $400-$450 price range, maybe more maybe less. Which make/model is a good sight with proven reliability such as an EO or a Trijicon reflex or something along those lines. I'm just looking for one that can co-witness with flip ups and a good sight for less is always a plus. A few people have said to try a Primary Arms red dot but I haven't tried any of them past the point of turning one on and looking through it.

[roachtron 49]

I have a stag upper on an aero precision lower. I spent $700 originally on the rifle. You can get a good deal on a stag upper here http://ar15sa.fatcow...tore/page2.html also known as legal transfers on ar15.com. I got mine for $500 and that included shipping. The stag 2h is nice because you get a $90 rear sight included with the upper. Here are some pics of mine its been upgraded even more since with a primary arms red dot and magnifier, a bcm gunfighter, and a vtac sling.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

+1 to the above. Same place I ordered my Stag upper from back in the day. Pete @ Legal Transfers has a great rep (you can even go check out the feedback forum on Arfcom).

[superA 289]

Pay attention to the bolt and carrier and LPK, after that it's basically all the same. This excludes high dollar

barrels of course that have the potential to sling lead better than most of us can.

[YARP 300]

Shooter-awesome post bro

MCASSgt New River-Also a real big fan of building on Rock River Arms lowers, no matter what lower parts kit I've used they always work.

 

Honestly, if you did a build you could save yourself some real dough and put the $ in to some great parts. It's not for everybody but it's a great learning experience!

[kresk 10,063]

I'd go with RRA or DPMS.

[magsite20 1,664]

A few years ago I got a full sized Bushmaster with a 20" heavy barrel and removable carry handle.

The 3 gun matches at the time had targets out to 300 yards so it seemed like a great choice at the time.

1 to 4 power Millet red dot added and gun proved to be dead on accurate.

After a while a while people got tired to taking that long to paste and score so now more of the rifle stages are from point blank (in a shoot house) to 50 yards so I'm using a 9mm Mech Tech CCU.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51267

Even if I'd got a 16" lighter gun in the AR to save money I'd still use the 9mm (a hole in paper is a hole in paper).

Wish I had something the use the AR on, but oh well every once in a while I take it out at fire it for shits and grins, great gun going to waste now.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Saiga20mags.com

[steveb327 13]

+1 for Stag. Recently picked up a 3HL (lefty) upper to mate to my Olympic Arms lower, and couldn't be happier. Any lefties out there can attest to having a weapon that finally fits us.

 

Both Stag and Olympic (have had 2 Oly's) build weapons and parts for other companies, who put them together and slap their name on it - usually for more $$! Chances are, whatever you buy, you'll be shooting a Stag or Oly with someone else's name on it, anyway. My rationale was to cut out the middle man and go to the source.

 

If you haven't already bought, take a good look at Olympic Arms. Their entry-level gun is less than $800. Guarantee DPMS and others are $150+ for the same gun. You can go up from there based on options, of course. Customer service is outstanding, which is not the case with every brand. No one cares about that until you have a problem, and then the swearing and calls to your local voodoo specialist begin.

 

Oly's quality is very good, with very good out of the box reliability and accuracy. Most brands are at this level, so why pay more for it? Save your pennies for ammo and accessories!

 

Oh, regarding ammo, have you considered an AR chambered in 5.45x39, from the AK-74 platform, instead of the standard .223/5.45x39? This was Russia's answer to the .223, offers similar performance, and is the ONLY ammo that didn't skyrocket b/c of the war. Take a look at those ammo prices, and that may sway you. My next upper will be in this caliber.

 

Someone wrote this, but the least expensive route to an AR is buying the upper and lower seperately. You'll usually save $100-$200 off a complete rifle this way. If you don't have the skills or tools (doesn't take much of either, really) to build your own lower, a complete lower isn't much more expensive. It was less than $50 more to buy a complete lower at my favorite dealer, so it was worth it to me.

 

Pick up a Shotgun News, if you haven't already. This is the best place to quickly compare dozens of manufacturers' offerings and find what you want.

 

Good hunting!

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Both Stag and Olympic (have had 2 Oly's) build weapons and parts for other companies, who put them together and slap their name on it - usually for more $$! Chances are, whatever you buy, you'll be shooting a Stag or Oly with someone else's name on it, anyway. My rationale was to cut out the middle man and go to the source.

 

Stag doesn't make anything. Stag's father company, CMT, makes everything for them and other companies. I've never heard of Oly making anything for other companies (at least not major companies). Who does Oly make parts for?

 

Obviously you like your Oly's, so don't take this the wrong way........but I wouldn't personally recommend an Oly over anything else. Especially nowadays when the price difference between an Oly and companies of known/verified higher quality is not that much.

[steveb327 13]

Stag doesn't make anything. Stag's father company, CMT, makes everything for them and other companies. I've never heard of Oly making anything for other companies (at least not major companies). Who does Oly make parts for?

 

Obviously you like your Oly's, so don't take this the wrong way........but I wouldn't personally recommend an Oly over anything else. Especially nowadays when the price difference between an Oly and companies of known/verified higher quality is not that much.

 

 

 

 

Right. Stag is the commercial division (about 7-10 years or so?) of CMT (what did they used to be called, Continental?), who've been making parts and whole guns for the military and other companies for decades. I think they make the stuff down the hall, really......

 

Oly, out of WA state, is also a direct contractor for the military, and also makes parts and guns for other makers. I'll double check before listing specific companies later. I remember a few, but want to verify before I list any in error.

 

I do like my Oly's. I also like my Stag, as well as RRA, and many of the other brands I've shot over the years. I've also shot some crap guns, as I'm sure you have. I didn't list those others in the "bad" column b/c I've heard some of their quality has gotten better. But, I have no recent, personal experience with those brands, to be fair. Once bitten....

 

My reason for recommending Oly is primarily cost. Trust me, I don't have their logo tattoo'd anywhere on my butt. I felt that recommending a $1500+ AR (which you can also get from Oly, not to beat a dead horse) is great if you have that kind of coin to throw around. However, cost was listed as a factor in the person's original post. Very few, if any, companies offer a good quality entry-level AR for less than $800. Why not go with a parent maker if you get literally the same gun for less $$? As for "known/verified higher quality," have you yourself had any problems with them?

 

Think of it in a different way. If you didn't know who they were, would you, hypothetically, buy a gun with a "Continental" logo on it? Probably not. The average shooter doesn't know who they are, either. But what if you knew they were actually making most of the ARs out there, stamping somebody else's name on them? For a rack-grade gun, that middle man is not worth $200 more to me. Certainly not just to assemble it in another state with the same basic springs and parts.

 

Everyone has a preference. Not knocking your's or anyone else's. My preference is to have my gun go bang every time I pull the trigger, and not pay for a name. Both my Oly's fith that bill, have been utterly reliable, they have great customer service, and make as tight a grouping as I can muster out of the box. That's all I'm trying to add. If you're looking to spend less than $800, I would recommend Oly over anyone else. Double that money, and that admittedly opens the field. My 2 cents.......ok, maybe $2 worth.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

For the money you cant go wrong with a Delton Ar15. Google search delton ar15 and click the first link. You should be able to get a standard A-2 style or M-4 style rifle starting at about $750. Doesnt get anymore basic than that. Delton is a local eastern NC company and I have seen MANY of his rifles at the gun shows...NICE PRODUCTS!

 

MCASSgt New River

[22_Shooter 1,560]

My reason for recommending Oly is primarily cost. Trust me, I don't have their logo tattoo'd anywhere on my butt. I felt that recommending a $1500+ AR (which you can also get from Oly, not to beat a dead horse) is great if you have that kind of coin to throw around. However, cost was listed as a factor in the person's original post.

 

That's the thing, though. The difference between X brand and Y brand, even when Y brand is of better quality, is not that much anymore. You can slap a complete BCM upper on a lower of your choice (assembled by yourself, to keep cost down) for around $800, and have yourself a high quality KISS rifle. 99% of people who know AR's won't argue that BCM > Oly. So for the minimal price difference, I'd go BCM all day.

 

 

Here's a quick example:

 

BCM midlength upper - $399

BCM full-auto BCG - $139

Standard charging handle - $20

Standard handguards - $20

Troy fixed rear sight - $62

 

Spikes stripped lower - $80

Lower build-kit from PSA (includes everything needed to complete a stripped lower) - $100

 

= $820 for a high quality KISS rifle

 

 

 

Again, I'm not knocking Oly. I'm glad you like yours. But I've read far too many horror stories about them, even if I haven't handled them personally. If we were talking a huge difference in price, then I could see going with the cheaper option, depending on what your intended use was.

 

So I just checked Oly's site, and the only sub-$800 AR I see is their "Plinker Plus" (which limits you to an A1 upper, most people want flattops nowadays). Everything else is over $800.

[Saiga_rom 91]

For the money you cant go wrong with a Delton Ar15. Google search delton ar15 and click the first link. You should be able to get a standard A-2 style or M-4 style rifle starting at about $750. Doesnt get anymore basic than that. Delton is a local eastern NC company and I have seen MANY of his rifles at the gun shows...NICE PRODUCTS!

 

MCASSgt New River

 

i agree with that. i bought a carbine delton A3 a few months ago, and its been flawless. incredibly accurate and reliable. i dont see the point in spending considerably more on another brand which is essentially the same thing

[Arik 565]

anyone have experience with the smith 5.45 ar? What nags do they take? Reliability? Should I just stick with the ak74?

[22_Shooter 1,560]

anyone have experience with the smith 5.45 ar? What nags do they take? Reliability? Should I just stick with the ak74?

 

I think Cobra has the S&W 5.45 AR, try asking him. As far as I know, the only available standard mags are CProducts. No idea on reliability. On S&W's official site, they show a standard 5.56 PMag in the 5.45 rifle and have a note at the bottom saying "Also included is one 30 round magazine built specifically to accommodate the 5.45 x 39mm round". So I'm not sure if it just involves a follower swap or something more.

[steveb327 13]

That's the thing, though. The difference between X brand and Y brand, even when Y brand is of better quality, is not that much anymore. You can slap a complete BCM upper on a lower of your choice (assembled by yourself, to keep cost down) for around $800, and have yourself a high quality KISS rifle. 99% of people who know AR's won't argue that BCM > Oly. So for the minimal price difference, I'd go BCM all day.

 

 

Here's a quick example:

 

BCM midlength upper - $399

BCM full-auto BCG - $139

Standard charging handle - $20

Standard handguards - $20

Troy fixed rear sight - $62

 

Spikes stripped lower - $80

Lower build-kit from PSA (includes everything needed to complete a stripped lower) - $100

 

= $820 for a high quality KISS rifle

 

 

 

Again, I'm not knocking Oly. I'm glad you like yours. But I've read far too many horror stories about them, even if I haven't handled them personally. If we were talking a huge difference in price, then I could see going with the cheaper option, depending on what your intended use was.

 

So I just checked Oly's site, and the only sub-$800 AR I see is their "Plinker Plus" (which limits you to an A1 upper, most people want flattops nowadays). Everything else is over $800.

 

 

 

 

I agree fully about buying seperate upper and lower as the least expensive route. That's all that I do now, myself. You built a great rifle above, with parts from good makers. Can be done 1000 different ways from cheap to ridiculous. That's the beauty of the AR. I'd have a larger caliber, too, if shooting them wasn't so cost-prohibitive (i.e.- 6.8).

 

What problems have you heard about? FTFs,FTEs, breakages? Be nice to know what to look out for. PM me if you feel that's more appropriate.

 

As for <$800 Oly's, I may be spoiled to have gun dealers in my region who are direct distributors for various brands. So, I manage to pay less than MSRP, along with any other customer. No sales tax is pretty sweet, too. I can get one of the flat-tops for that price. The Plinker is low $700s. I can't be the only fortunate person, though! I spread my business to about 4 different dealers within an hour's drive, depending on what type of weapon I'm in the market for.

 

I've been watching BCM as a parts company for many years. They seem reputable. Would be interested in hearing the good, bad and ugly of them. I could be wrong, but they just started branding complete rifles in the last year or two...along with a bunch of other parts companies trying to capitalize on the Obama AR scare. I believe they would make a solid gun, probably better than many better-known brands. But, 99%? Really? Bold. What makes X > Y in that case?

 

To get back to the original post, I'll add another maker entering the budget market, DSA. Just reading about their ZM4 Spartan that starts at $775. I believe, like their excellent FALs, they build their own receivers, etc., and so can keep down the cost. Haven't shot it myself, but it's another thing to look at for actual owner reports.

 

Glad to hear other + comments about 5.45x39, too. That's easy math, IMO.

[mgconnor13 206]

I'm very happy with my Stag arms left handed upper. It eats everything I feed it. Great upper for the money I spent.

[bigcec1 72]

anyone have experience with the smith 5.45 ar? What nags do they take? Reliability? Should I just stick with the ak74?

 

I think Cobra has the S&W 5.45 AR, try asking him. As far as I know, the only available standard mags are CProducts. No idea on reliability. On S&W's official site, they show a standard 5.56 PMag in the 5.45 rifle and have a note at the bottom saying "Also included is one 30 round magazine built specifically to accommodate the 5.45 x 39mm round". So I'm not sure if it just involves a follower swap or something more.

 

 

I don't have a s&w but I built a 5.45 on a heavy barrel ar upper but the only mags for them are c products and changing the follower will work on standard mags but won't work properly past 10 rounds or so I've gotten 12 to work some times past that they won't feed worth a crap

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I agree fully about buying seperate upper and lower as the least expensive route. That's all that I do now, myself. You built a great rifle above, with parts from good makers. Can be done 1000 different ways from cheap to ridiculous. That's the beauty of the AR. I'd have a larger caliber, too, if shooting them wasn't so cost-prohibitive (i.e.- 6.8). Yup, and assembling stripped lowers is just plain fun. I went on a little spree of buying stripped lowers just so I could assemble them.

 

What problems have you heard about? FTFs,FTEs, breakages? Be nice to know what to look out for. PM me if you feel that's more appropriate. All of the above? If I get bored, I can do some digging and try to find links. Oly is one of the first manufacturers I looked into back when I was going to buy my first AR, because the Plinker Plus was so cheap. But nowadays, they're not comparatively cheap anymore, when you factor in how cheap other manufacturers are too.

 

As for <$800 Oly's, I may be spoiled to have gun dealers in my region who are direct distributors for various brands. So, I manage to pay less than MSRP, along with any other customer. No sales tax is pretty sweet, too. I can get one of the flat-tops for that price. The Plinker is low $700s. I can't be the only fortunate person, though! I spread my business to about 4 different dealers within an hour's drive, depending on what type of weapon I'm in the market for.

 

I've been watching BCM as a parts company for many years. They seem reputable. Would be interested in hearing the good, bad and ugly of them. I could be wrong, but they just started branding complete rifles in the last year or two...along with a bunch of other parts companies trying to capitalize on the Obama AR scare. I believe they would make a solid gun, probably better than many better-known brands. But, 99%? Really? Bold. What makes X > Y in that case? I just pulled that % out my ass. Point is, BCM is up to Colt quality with a cheaper price tag and nicer finish. Also, while they didn't start selling complete AR's until semi-recently, they've been spitting out their uppers for longer than that. I have no loyalty to lowers. If it's from a reputable company, it's good to go. It's the upper and BCG where it counts. Look up "The Filthy 14". It's Pat Rogers' BCM that he has (last I heard) 40K+ rounds through, all original parts, minimal cleaning, no malfs, and just re-oiling the bolt as needed. In the rare case that you get a lemon from BCM, Paul will take care of you guaranteed, no question. BCM's customer service is top notch.

 

To get back to the original post, I'll add another maker entering the budget market, DSA. Just reading about their ZM4 Spartan that starts at $775. I believe, like their excellent FALs, they build their own receivers, etc., and so can keep down the cost. Haven't shot it myself, but it's another thing to look at for actual owner reports.

 

Glad to hear other + comments about 5.45x39, too. That's easy math, IMO.

 

 

I'm very happy with my Stag arms left handed upper. It eats everything I feed it. Great upper for the money I spent.

 

I like Stag, too. A Stag was my first, and it ran like a champ.

 

anyone have experience with the smith 5.45 ar? What nags do they take? Reliability? Should I just stick with the ak74?

 

I think Cobra has the S&W 5.45 AR, try asking him. As far as I know, the only available standard mags are CProducts. No idea on reliability. On S&W's official site, they show a standard 5.56 PMag in the 5.45 rifle and have a note at the bottom saying "Also included is one 30 round magazine built specifically to accommodate the 5.45 x 39mm round". So I'm not sure if it just involves a follower swap or something more.

 

 

I don't have a s&w but I built a 5.45 on a heavy barrel ar upper but the only mags for them are c products and changing the follower will work on standard mags but won't work properly past 10 rounds or so I've gotten 12 to work some times past that they won't feed worth a crap

 

So just swapping the follower on a standard 5.56 mag only works for 10 or so rounds? That sucks. I wonder what else S&W did to the PMag that comes with the 5.45 AR, to make it work reliably at full capacity.

Edited February 28, 2011 by -Shooter-

[YARP 300]

shooter......GO TO BED DUDE! LOL!

[steveb327 13]

Shooter,

 

No need to dig up the links on Oly malfunctions; can do that myself. Hadn't had problems, so didn't seek them out.

 

It'll be a badly decomposing horse by the time I can follow-thru on my promise to verify who Oly and Continental make pieces for, but I will. Don't like saying things I can't back-up.

 

Looked up the "Filthy 14 BCM," per your suggestion. Everyone should google it. Now THAT is quality info. Saved that page in my AR favorites, actually. I like head-to-head data - the kind we don't see in most publications anymore for fear of pissing off advertisers. That was pretty comprehensive and compelling. Definitely moves BCM up my list, and proves that you can build a better AR, yourself, on the cheap.

 

Thanks for the education. I appreciate you taking the time.

Edited February 28, 2011 by steveb327