Monkeyman 0 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I have access to piles of cheap skeet and sporting clay loads for free. My Saiga 12 won't cycle them even with light-load setting and lighter spring. I've read the gas block can be removed and the gas ports opened up to 90 thousands of an inch to improve light-load function. I'm thinking this has been done hundreds of times before, can anyone link me to a tutorial? TIA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Do a search. All that GREAT info is already written. It does help and will probably fix your problem is your ports aren't .093". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jlbullet 1 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 There's a series of videos on youtube that go into detail particularly this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1JLON0xkSY&feature=fvsr . A procedure is here on this forum posted by JeffD http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33836 Cadiz firearms will do the work under warranty for free. They are the official warranty service for Saiga-12 manufactured by RAAC. As long as the gas block hasn't been modified they'll check it and port the gun to .093 and adjust the gas block if necessary. They send the shipping label at no charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torqued 8 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I did it on my drill press. Made a significant difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redfish28 50 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I am sure someone will chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I would not follow the video instructions previously posted. The gas port should be drilled as a 45 degree angle like the rest of the ports from the factory. The correct way to do this is to remove the gas block completely. There are plenty of threads to explain how to do this. Drilling a straight hole like the one done in the video, will result in your gun fouling prematurely. It's your gun and you can decide how you want to go about opening the gas ports. The demonstration given in the video would be easier to do but it is completely incorrect in my opinion. It is worth the extra time and effort to do this mod properly. RF Edited March 1, 2011 by redfish28 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I am sure someone will chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I would not follow the video instructions previously posted. The gas port should be drilled as a 45 degree angle like the rest of the ports from the factory. The correct way to do this is to remove the gas block completely. There are plenty of threads to explain how to do this. Drilling a straight hole like the one done in the video, will result in your gun fouling prematurely. It's your gun and you can decide how you want to go about opening the gas ports. The demonstration given in the video would be easier to do but it is completely incorrect in my opinion. It is worth the extra time and effort to do this mod properly. RF Yep, +1. The guy in that video series is pretty talented. BUT, it surprised me that he went to the trouble of cutting the pistol grip hole, and doing everything else right, but then takes a shortcut like that on the gas holes. With all the trouble he goes through to knock out the old bead sight, drill & tap for a new one, etc. he could have knocked off the gas block much easier and done it properly. Edited March 1, 2011 by Spartacus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I am sure someone will chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but I would not follow the video instructions previously posted. The gas port should be drilled as a 45 degree angle like the rest of the ports from the factory. The correct way to do this is to remove the gas block completely. There are plenty of threads to explain how to do this. Drilling a straight hole like the one done in the video, will result in your gun fouling prematurely. It's your gun and you can decide how you want to go about opening the gas ports. The demonstration given in the video would be easier to do but it is completely incorrect in my opinion. It is worth the extra time and effort to do this mod properly. RF Yep, +1. The guy in that video series is pretty talented. BUT, it surprised me that he went to the trouble of cutting the pistol grip hole, and doing everything else right, but then takes a shortcut like that on the gas holes. With all the trouble he goes through to knock out the old bead sight, drill & tap for a new one, etc. he could have knocked off the gas block much easier and done it properly. OMG + 1,000,000 !!!!! Wait.... shhhhh.... I think I hear the 'gassers' typing up their posts about "overgassing" and how the trunnion will disintegrate into a fine dust if the ports are enlarged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 OMG + 1,000,000 !!!!! Wait.... shhhhh.... I think I hear the 'gassers' typing up their posts about "overgassing" and how the trunnion will disintegrate into a fine dust if the ports are enlarged lol.... yeah my gun's got gas baby! Then again, it's got a Tom Cole HD OP Rod now too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Monkeyman 0 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 OK, took the gun apart last night and did some work on it. There were only three gas holes, each less than 0.080". I opened up all three to 0.095" and will do some testing this afternoon. If it still doesn't run I'll drill a 4th hole. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 when you send the gun out for warranty, do they make all the holes .093? Is that pretty much what they should be at? I have 3 holes and can see them all through the opening, just curious if I should just make them .093 and be done with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torqued 8 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I did it on my drill press. Made a significant difference. I will note, I did NOT use the vid. Removed my block and drilled at 45.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 when you send the gun out for warranty, do they make all the holes .093? Is that pretty much what they should be at? I have 3 holes and can see them all through the opening, just curious if I should just make them .093 and be done with it. First thing you should do is test fire the gun at the range. There is so much variation on these guns that one gun with relatively small gas ports may run better than one with relatively larger gas ports if the action is running slicker than the one with larger ports. Test fire the gun, and then do a port job if you have to. As for warranty service, I imagine the gun is examined for any obvious defects and then they run a mag of Federal target loads through it to test. If the Federal ammo runs ok, I doubt the gas ports are altered at all regardless of how it left the factory. You don't spend time fixing something that isn't broken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TTMR 11 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 First thing you should do is test fire the gun at the range. Agreed, mine appears to be a "bad" gun with no visible ports but it cycles quite well with all but the lightest walmart cheapies. If I ever take the block off maybe I'll open it up a little. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) I've test fired it already. It eats everything including walmart Winchester bulk. Just curious about doing it to make the gun better and live longer. Wasn't too sure on the deal. But I guess after reading other posts. I'm the kind of guy who can't leave things be. Lol. I always mod everything I own. I was looking for something else to tinker with on my new favorite gun. I guess I'll find something else. Haha Edited March 3, 2011 by WESLEY 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TTMR 11 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 The Winchester bulk is all mine won't shoot and from reading I've done that isn't uncommon. Even my FN just barley cycles it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I've done alot of sanding and polishing on mine before I even shot it. I had a few FTE at first, but after a 100 rnds it worked like a champ. Guess I did something right. For once. Lol. I have 3 visible ports also Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TTMR 11 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have two drilled and you can't see em in the block. I get a few fte's when shooting winchester. My local wally world sells federal for the same price and she eats that stuff up. Even about 50% effective when you forget to set the gas right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
docwade 3 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I just pulled my gas block this morning since I was having FTE's on the federal 3 dram 7.5. I have a three hole gun and bored them out as detailed in the threads. I have one of those auto plugs on the shelf, so I went ahead and oversized the mddle hole. I'm on the way to the range in a few. I'll let you guys know how it pans out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blkrifleman 3 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ok i finally converted my s-12! All was easy untill i went to take the gas block off. I used the airhammer method and i was at the gas ports! Anyway i had 4 ports but one was almost completly covered by the gb and another was partially blocked. I opened all all four holes up with a 3/32 bit at the propper 45 degree angle and opened up the hole in the gb so the ports where uncovered. I reassembled the gun installed the tac47 aka auto plug and factory puc. Loaded with cheap winchester 7/8oz loads and went shooting, fte so i adjusted the auto plug a half turn three rounds then fte put another half turn and she runs like a champ! So i then installed the e-tac medium puc and had a fte put another half turn on the plug and she is good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Great you got the gun running. Just watch your gun for signs of overgassing. Usually, 4 port guns have a port diameter of .075"- .080", with the 3-hole guns having a port diameter of .093". I know others have taken their 4 port guns up to the three port standard with no problems, but just be watchful. The medium twisterpuc should help though, as it allows some gas to escape past the puck, reducing the gas force which is operating the piston. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
docwade 3 Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 The auto plug should prevent over gassing as well. Took my conversion out. 1.5 turns with the auto plug with a three hole gun with two ports at .09 and one at .109. Runs pretty good on the federal bulk pack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well after the break in of 100 or so rounds, she was running perfect. So I put another 250 rounds through her flawlessly. I took it out today all cleaned up and had 1 out of every 10 FTE. So I said fuck it, When I got home I took it all apart and cleaned it up, took the GB off, the ports were at .077, I opened them up to .093, and opened the GB hole up at the same time. They were all exposed before, but I opened it up a little bit more. I run the buffer also, and im thinking about the auto plug as well. Ill make sure it runs 100% before I do anything else. The pins came out good, and the GB slide off with a couple blows with the 2lb hammer. I used a heavy duty saw zaw blade that I had laying around and wrapped it in electrical tape. Went back together easier than it came off, I used a scrap 2x4 to pound it back on and got the pins lined up perfect the first time. I used the instructions found on here, so thanks to the OP that did the write up. Took about an hour to do. Hopefully I will get out and shoot it this coming week and will post the results. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well after the break in of 100 or so rounds, she was running perfect. So I put another 250 rounds through her flawlessly. I took it out today all cleaned up and had 1 out of every 10 FTE. So I said fuck it, When I got home I took it all apart and cleaned it up, took the GB off, the ports were at .077, I opened them up to .093, and opened the GB hole up at the same time. They were all exposed before, but I opened it up a little bit more. I run the buffer also, and im thinking about the auto plug as well. Ill make sure it runs 100% before I do anything else. The pins came out good, and the GB slide off with a couple blows with the 2lb hammer. I used a heavy duty saw zaw blade that I had laying around and wrapped it in electrical tape. Went back together easier than it came off, I used a scrap 2x4 to pound it back on and got the pins lined up perfect the first time. I used the instructions found on here, so thanks to the OP that did the write up. Took about an hour to do. Hopefully I will get out and shoot it this coming week and will post the results. Rob Good job on getting the gas port job done, sounds like it did need it if the ports were at .077 and you were still getting random FTEs. I'll be interested in how it runs with the buffer in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Thanks man. It was pretty easy. It ran really good before with the buffer. And this time out it acted up. Hopefully it will be better next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) The auto plug should prevent over gassing as well. It should, in theory. In practice, maybe not. For example, I installed an autoplug and did the calibration yesterday. Low brass and high brass birdshot were working fine, so I tried some slugs. Well, the birdshot hulls of various types all landed in within a 2 foot circle, the slug hulls landed 8-10 feet further away, which suggests the slide is moving a LOT faster. I propped a piece of cardboard against the rear trunion and fired a slug and I ended up with an embossed circle on it from the firing pin being driven into the cardboard, as if by a hammer. So I'm going to try soon starting with something not so bad as the birdshot I used, but it's not fully living up to the claims. Edited March 7, 2011 by KevinInNM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blkrifleman 3 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Yea i was out shooting today and it cycled the cheap stuff fine. All the hulls where about 3 foot or so from me then shot some hi brass buck and they flew a good 10 feet. Ordered a buffer for it, i know not for the s12 but i'm stuborn. lol Sure like the idea of not having to adjust it though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't work on customer Saigas. Only work on employee s-12's and frends s-12's. I do them for free, because they would do the same for me. Most are SBS. On standard length (18-19") i do pretty much the same thing. I rip them down to nothing. Knock off the pins, T gaurd, gas tube, barrel, internals, sights, stocks, etc....and I start from complete scratch. A clean slate. Throat the bbl. Add a 4th small-port and open up the gas block hole to accomidate. I remove the side-scope mount. THen weld up all he holes and resurface the entire reciever. Do the PG conversion. Reinstal bbl and gas tube assembly, Add sights. Add a heat sheild. Notch the gas plug for more adjustments. Mirror polish the bolt, carrier, and internals. Glass bead gun, parkerize, and then HK-Black baked on enamel. Assemble and lubricate. Every gun I have built for friends like this has run 100% out of the box on low brass. No break in required. NOTED: C&S DOES NOT WORK ON CUSTOMER SUPPLIED SAIGAS OR SELL CONVERTED SAIGAS. I hope this write up can maybe help somone save some time chasing an ftf/fte problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RJWesleyIII 7 Posted March 14, 2011 Report Share Posted March 14, 2011 I don't work on customer Saigas. Only work on employee s-12's and frends s-12's. I do them for free, because they would do the same for me. Most are SBS. On standard length (18-19") i do pretty much the same thing. I rip them down to nothing. Knock off the pins, T gaurd, gas tube, barrel, internals, sights, stocks, etc....and I start from complete scratch. A clean slate. Throat the bbl. Add a 4th small-port and open up the gas block hole to accomidate. I remove the side-scope mount. THen weld up all he holes and resurface the entire reciever. Do the PG conversion. Reinstal bbl and gas tube assembly, Add sights. Add a heat sheild. Notch the gas plug for more adjustments. Mirror polish the bolt, carrier, and internals. Glass bead gun, parkerize, and then HK-Black baked on enamel. Assemble and lubricate. Every gun I have built for friends like this has run 100% out of the box on low brass. No break in required. NOTED: C&S DOES NOT WORK ON CUSTOMER SUPPLIED SAIGAS OR SELL CONVERTED SAIGAS. I hope this write up can maybe help somone save some time chasing an ftf/fte problem. What is throating the barrel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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