A closer look at the pistol and it's use

[BpS12 512]

^^ I don't think anybody is saying "pistol 1st". The pistol is just much sneakier and underappreciated for it's abilities. Sure fight your way back to your long gun but what if you can't make it? You will have make do with what you have.

 

 

That's why I carry two,

[YARP 300]

Pistols are fairly inaccurate ( Compared to the rifle) past 35 yards are and almost worthless past 75 unless its a 12 inch 357 revolver or larger, but at the point why not just get a Draco or AR pistol because you've lost most concealment potential. maybe you can trick shot with your Glock or whatever but the guy with the rifle will have a much faster aim, more effective rounds, greater mag capacity, far superior effective accuracy and deeper penetration. even past 35 yards the advantage of the rifle speed of aim is going to start taking effect but 60+ and your best bet is to run away quickly.

 

I'd hardly call headshots (8" plate) at 100m innaccurate. I do get what your saying though, and yes I too would want my rifle if the option was there. Just to clear up the idea that I'm suggesting a pistol over a rifle, I'm not. I'm really trying to make the point that your

A.not going to have your rifle on you if SHTF

B.You may have to fight to get back to that rifle (so you better be damn good at it)

C.your hands may be preoccupied do other things, you won't have your rifle in them when you need it.

 

I'll say it again. It's 2011 folks, technology is moving forward. You don't need 20 pistols to get the job done, sell what you don't use and get an RMRed Glock, 1911, sig or whatever platform works for you. You won't regret it.

 

 

For the record I consider SHTF to be anytime I have to draw my weapon, although 20Nickels post (READ THE ARTICLE, it's excellent) is more likely what will happen then some all out war.

[SOPMOD 254]

I can hit large paint buckets with only a couple of misses rapid fire at 100 yards over and over again.While that presents a 14x12in target and would be horrible for a rifle it's still "Minute of Badguy" and would get the job done at street fighting distances.

 

Until you get the chance to shoot every day for a couple of weeks(under some good instruction) there are a lot of possibilities that won't seem realistic to you at your present level of training.

 

I personally guarantee that if you put 40,000rds downrange in fire an maneuver on multiple steel targets over the course of a year and you will emerge on the other side as someone for whom the "Impossible" is commonplace.

Edited July 30, 2011 by SOPMOD

[RobRez 1,895]

^^ I don't think anybody is saying "pistol 1st". The pistol is just much sneakier and unappreciated for it's abilities. Sure fight your way back to your long gun but what if you can't make it? You will have make do with what you have.

 

Exactly. If a Big SHTF scenario happens, who knows when it will be or where you will be. Chances are good you will be at work, and if you are a lucky one who carries at work, your pistol will get you home to your rifle if you are proficient with it.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

I personally guarantee that if you put 40,000rds downrange in fire an maneuver on multiple steel targets over the course of a year and you will emerge on the other side as someone for whom the "Impossible" is commonplace.

Well, yes. But going out occasinally and shooting at a steel ipsc target at 100 yards will teach you how to make it work. I was told by a state police SWAT guy that he considers that a well trained shooter should be able to get 50% hits at 300 yards with a 9mm, .40 and .357sig. A .45 not so much, but it's certainly good to at least 100 meters. I've never done 300 with a pistol, but I know with a .40 I can hit a man sized target at 100 meters with boring regularity by aiming at the top of the head.

[BpS12 512]

I can hit 4 outa 5 in a "head sized" area on my targets, at 40yrds with a snub nosed .45. I'm happy with that, for now. This convorsation has inspired me to push for better though.

 

But I'm finding it funny that peolpe are talking about 1-300yrd shots with a pistol but the going concensus is that a x39 just wont be accurate beyond 3-400yrds. Seems to me, it depends more on the shooter, much like the pistol. ymmv

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

Most shooters can't shoot up to the inherent accuracy in their guns, but it depends on the gun too. There is a reason that the stereotype of the AK that is inaccurate as hell exists. It's not always true, but it certainly isn't always untrue.

 

Having a crappy trigger, crappy ammo and a crappy barrel all come together give you the 2 MOA you reliably need to hit 600-800 yard targets is unlikely.

[YARP 300]

Bumping this back to the top with the Nevada IHOP story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/us/07shooting.html

Yet more proof that when it hits the fan, your rifle will not be in your hands.

[MT Predator 2,294]

Good thread YARP. I'm tracking with ya.

[Gunfixr 76]

I think most here would agree that the best gun to use in a fight is the one you have with you.

Therefore, since we cannot have a rifle with us all the time, we need to practice the unusual with what we will have with us. Would I rather have a rifle? Sure I would. But, like most, I cannot carry a rifle all the time. In fact, here in VA., it's illegal to have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle ( a law related to hunting, actually). So, after having fought my way to my vehicle to retrieve my rifle, it's not even ready, as it needs to be loaded first.

As for being "outgunned" and going to lose just because the badguy has a rifle, that's bullshit. The weapons' user is the weapon. All weapons are just tools, mechanical devices with which we can transfer our will onto another. Our will is what gets it done. If the other guy has a rifle, and you a handgun, and your skill is better than his, he still loses. You cannot miss fast enough or often enough to win.

While personally I've been slack on the 100yd handgun shooting, I do not fear taking the shot at 50yds at all.

I carry reloads also. While I agree that dropping a couple badguys will definately deter the rest, I'll have more ammo, just in case I'm wrong. After all, the consequences of having too much ammo are far less than the consequences of not having enough.

As far as I'm concerned, there's only two times you can have too much ammo; when you're swimming, and when you're on fire.

[20nickels 21]

Well said Gunfixr. We used to be able to shoot pistol on our local 100 yd range until the everpresent mag-dump guy ate up the baffles, posts and sidewalks. Back to 15 yds only now.

[magsite20 1,664]

[YARP 300]

As far as I'm concerned, there's only two times you can have too much ammo; when you're swimming, and when you're on fire.

 

I may have to steal this line some time!

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

As far as I'm concerned, there's only two times you can have too much ammo; when you're swimming, and when you're on fire.

 

I may have to steal this line some time!

 

Need to add that one to the sayings thread

[ironhead7544 35]

I prefer a G26 to any of the snubbies for this reason. I can hit fairly well at a distance. With CorBon 115 gr I get 1260 fps. Shoots flatter to 100 yards. 13 shots with the +2 baseplate. Thinking of switching to a G19 or maybee a G34. The longer G34 barrel helps with more velocity at long range. A shooter with a G34 could walk in hits at long range. And carry a lot of ammo. Just my .02.