changes in new imports from legion.

[TwentyNizzo 66]

There's nothing wrong with the current barrel hood design. It works perfectly IMO. The problem lies in the cheap, very soft hulls used in some rounds (i.e winchester universal)

Edited September 7, 2011 by TwentyNizzo

[jdtravers 637]

I had a new Legion in the car and just went and got it. YES, the barrel hood is extended all the way back to the back of the lug recess like we do for the 2 3/4 inch improvement, but the receiver still says 12/76 which for those of us who are metric retarded is still chambered for 3 inch shells.

 

I have worked on a few and had not caught this. It still has only 3 ports. The ports I would have caught right away because the first thing I do is check them when I do a conversion.

 

I will take a pic in just a minute and post!

 

Jack Travers

JT Engineering

[jdtravers 637]

This is a new legion I am converting/finishing for a customer and YES the hood is extended! I have to spray it in the AM, so after it cures I will check it out and see if a 2 3/4 inch can still catch on the hood.

 

Jack

 

I couldn't wait. A 2 3/4 inch shell will NOT kick up and get caught on the hood now. It looks like it has been indexed (underneath). Definitely more reliable!!

[yooper14.5 84]

Awesome! I wonder how they got the 3 inch to work. Maybe the extractor just forces the shell to flex past it, or they lengthened the receiver/rails. How does it look like they did it?

Edited September 7, 2011 by yooper14.5

[yooper14.5 84]

This is a new legion I am converting/finishing for a customer and YES the hood is extended! I have to spray it in the AM, so after it cures I will check it out and see if a 2 3/4 inch can still catch on the hood.

 

Jack

 

I couldn't wait. A 2 3/4 inch shell will NOT kick up and get caught on the hood now. It looks like it has been indexed (underneath) so if someone wants to shoot 3 inch shells they can remove the extended section. Definitely more reliable!!

 

I'm shocked the russians would make it so it took permanent modifications to run 3". can you try putting a 3" empty in the chamber with the carrier in and pull back and see if it will eject?

[jdtravers 637]

This is a new legion I am converting/finishing for a customer and YES the hood is extended! I have to spray it in the AM, so after it cures I will check it out and see if a 2 3/4 inch can still catch on the hood.

 

Jack

 

I couldn't wait. A 2 3/4 inch shell will NOT kick up and get caught on the hood now. It looks like it has been indexed (underneath) so if someone wants to shoot 3 inch shells they can remove the extended section. Definitely more reliable!!

 

I'm shocked the russians would make it so it took permanent modifications to run 3". can you try putting a 3" empty in the chamber with the carrier in and pull back and see if it will eject?

I am not at the shop. I will check it out tomorrow and see if there are any internal changes which would allow it to cycle/eject 3 inch shells.

[yooper14.5 84]

This is a new legion I am converting/finishing for a customer and YES the hood is extended! I have to spray it in the AM, so after it cures I will check it out and see if a 2 3/4 inch can still catch on the hood.

 

Jack

 

I couldn't wait. A 2 3/4 inch shell will NOT kick up and get caught on the hood now. It looks like it has been indexed (underneath) so if someone wants to shoot 3 inch shells they can remove the extended section. Definitely more reliable!!

 

I'm shocked the russians would make it so it took permanent modifications to run 3". can you try putting a 3" empty in the chamber with the carrier in and pull back and see if it will eject?

I am not at the shop. I will check it out tomorrow and see if there are any internal changes which would allow it to cycle/eject 3 inch shells.

 

ok, thanks. Hopefully they won't take permanent modifications to work w/ 3" shells.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

OK... This is now VERY interesting indeed... New shit from the factory... Confirmed.

Now watching this thread with intense interest.

 

It boggles the mind that they'd chamber for 3" with a modification that that might require removal to run the 3".

[jdtravers 637]

I just took the measurement from the front of the ejector to the back of the barrel hood it is: 2.920 which is pretty damn close enough for a 3 inch shell to have enough clearance to eject. I don't have a 3 inch fired hull to measure but it should be just under 3 inches.

 

A fired 2 3/4 inch hull measures approximately 2.650 to 2.750, hence 2 3/4 inch shell.

 

 

Jack

[Lidocaine Looney 26]

I have not tried 3" shells yet. I am afraid to if it is over gassed! Will the auto plug or V-plug "gass it down" safely? How should I correct this problem. Is there a way to confirm if I really do infact have an overgassed gun??

 

Both plugs will do good, just remember the autoplug isn't advised to run 3" magnums.

 

Fixed...

[beefcakeb99 572]

Just a thought, but what is the manufactuure date found in the serial number?

 

Aren't there often times where 09 guns end up getting inspected in 2010?

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Sorry JDT,

I have to LOL a wee bit, in three hours you went from...

 

The guns are still set up for 3 inch shells, so the barrel hood can not be lengthened or the 3 inch shells won't eject. It would have to be set up and chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells only to make this modification/improvement to the barrel hood.

 

Jack

To taking the time to look...

I had a new Legion in the car and just went and got it. YES, the barrel hood is extended all the way back to the back of the lug recess like we do for the 2 3/4 inch improvement, but the receiver still says 12/76 which for those of us who are metric retarded is still chambered for 3 inch shells.

 

Jack

To doing a 180'

I just took the measurement from the front of the ejector to the back of the barrel hood and there is enough clearance to eject a 3 inch shell.

 

Jack

But what I really like, is what seems to be a excitement to your posts, and your willingness/quickness to delve into it.

Gotta love my fellow gun nutz!

[TwentyNizzo 66]

Well, apparently IZHMASH/LEGION doesn't agree with me. Shows how much (little) I know

 

Pretty cool to see some upgrades to the venerable IZ-109.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Just a thought, but what is the manufactuure date found in the serial number?

 

Aren't there often times where 09 guns end up getting inspected in 2010?

First two numbers in the serial #, but it only the year, and the Inspection date is in the rifle's paperwork, along with such as accuracy test results and etc. (Is this what you're asking?)

One would imagine that some late 09' guns could possibly be inspected in 10'.

Edited September 7, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

My next video will be a few 3" Magnum 5 round mag dumps

 

I still have 20 or so.... maybe a '100 round 3" Magnum Russian 5 round mag dump' video is in order

 

I'm only joking.... or am I?

 

I'm not even touching the 'gassing' conversation. All of my guns are excessively flatulent

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8U0HxhR2Bc&feature=related

[beefcakeb99 572]

Just a thought, but what is the manufactuure date found in the serial number?

 

Aren't there often times where 09 guns end up getting inspected in 2010?

First two numbers in the serial #, but it only the year, and the Inspection date is in the rifle's paperwork, along with such as accuracy test results and etc. (Is this what you're asking?)

One would imagine that some late 09' guns could possibly be inspected in 10'.

No, I am asking what the production date...not the inspection date is of the guns in question....I am doubting they are even 2011 guns.

Also, where is the oem lrbho?

[Paulyski 2,227]

BAD ASS with the factory barrel extension!

 

I wonder if they were watching us on this site & figured, "why not?"

 

They've done it before with the LRBHO...

[beefcakeb99 572]

BAD ASS with the factory barrel extension!

 

I wonder if they were watching us on this site & figured, "why not?"

 

They've done it before with the LRBHO...

Well, couldn't this be done by the importer like the port possibility?

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

No, I am asking what the production date...not the inspection date is of the guns in question....I am doubting they are even 2011 guns.

Also, where is the oem lrbho?

OK, gotcha now, so lets ask Jack & Werra.

 

Jack, what year is that Legion?

 

Werra, your inspection date is 05/11', but what is the DOM in the SN#?

That is the first two numbers of the SN#, thanks.

Edited September 7, 2011 by ChileRelleno

[jdtravers 637]

No, I am asking what the production date...not the inspection date is of the guns in question....I am doubting they are even 2011 guns.

Also, where is the oem lrbho?

OK, gotcha now, so lets ask Jack & Werra.

 

Jack, what year is that Legion?

 

Werra, your inspection date is 05/11', but what is the DOM in the SN#?

That is the first two numbers of the SN#, thanks.

 

I just took the measurements with a mic, and yes a 3 inch shell does have clearance to eject, very close, but it may be OK. This is a 2011 gun, inspected 03/11.

[Paulyski 2,227]

BAD ASS with the factory barrel extension!

 

I wonder if they were watching us on this site & figured, "why not?"

 

They've done it before with the LRBHO...

Well, couldn't this be done by the importer like the port possibility?

A port is quick & easy.

Pulling the barrel & doing a hood is much more involved.

It's quicker if you have a mill, but still, the importer would have to mark the price up a bit & you'd notice.

 

On the other hand, I know quite a few builders who measure then enlarge the 3 or add a 4th small port before ever selling a gun.

It's quick if you have a dedicated workstation for it & do multiple guns at one time.

[beefcakeb99 572]

No, I am asking what the production date...not the inspection date is of the guns in question....I am doubting they are even 2011 guns.

Also, where is the oem lrbho?

OK, gotcha now, so lets ask Jack & Werra.

 

Jack, what year is that Legion?

 

Werra, your inspection date is 05/11', but what is the DOM in the SN#?

That is the first two numbers of the SN#, thanks.

 

I just took the measurements with a mic, and yes a 3 inch shell does have clearance to eject, very close, but it may be OK. This is a 2011 gun, inspected 03/11.

So the SN is H11XXXXXX? OR similar?

[kindapointless 22]

.08 clearance isn't a whole hell of a lot. I'm kind of worried by that but I guess they are just following the market probably by the same reason the autoplug was designed around 2 3/4, the fact that no one really goes out and dumps a bunch of 3 inch. well I guess yet again I am an exception to the norm. since I have gotten into hand loading I have been firing these a lot I have a good anti squirrel load worked up the fires on #3 of the v plug (more payload of bird shot vs the magnum velocity ) firing great quantities of them seems to wear the plastic ramps of the mags more then 2 3/4 does though. I would really rather see the factory go the other way with it and offer a 3 1/2 inch mag chamber then going to a more of a 2 3/4 preferred type chamber. there are some nasty ooo buck loads and some slugs out there for the super mag. or if some one just makes me a Saiga 10 gauge I will shut up and go away

[netpackrat 566]

I can't imagine buying a modern 12 gauge that was not reliable with 3" shells. Such a thing would be totally useless to me. I reload and practice with 2-3/4, but for HD I keep it loaded with 3" buck, and for woods carry with 3" slugs.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

BAD ASS with the factory barrel extension!

 

I wonder if they were watching us on this site & figured, "why not?"

 

They've done it before with the LRBHO...

Well, couldn't this be done by the importer like the port possibility?

A port is quick & easy.

Pulling the barrel & doing a hood is much more involved.

It's quicker if you have a mill, but still, the importer would have to mark the price up a bit & you'd notice.

 

On the other hand, I know quite a few builders who measure then enlarge the 3 or add a 4th small port before ever selling a gun.

It's quick if you have a dedicated workstation for it & do multiple guns at one time.

+1

 

Also, anyone can add/enlarge a port. Now, welding on the barrel hood? That is a whole new ballgame that I would rather leave to a real pro or a really talented DIY'r. Yeah, I don't think we want the importers extending the barrel hood.

[jdtravers 637]

Yes, the Serial Number is: H 114XXXXX

 

According to my measurements the tolerances are extremely close, 2.900 from the front of the ejector to the back of the barrel hood, for a 3 inch shell to clear the hood. The gun is designed to kick the shells to the right of the hood when they eject, but that is not actually/always the case.

 

Just as in feeding during high speed cycling of the gun, everything "S" shapes, when the shell feeds it will kick up to the hood and then down to the feed ramp at least one time, sometimes more and the same on ejection, it will ride on the hood coming out, hit the receiver up and out again when the shell strikes the ejector.

 

High speed photography and then slow motion show some pretty wild shit during cycling of a firearm. Everything flexes after the first round is fired. Looks like a water hose.

 

I can not say how well 3 inch will eject. Yes, there is minimal clearance, but in my opinion, there will be some FTEs because of deflection off the extended hood. Maybe not.

 

May go buy a box and put them through this gun when it is finished just to see out of curiosity.

 

For my primary builds/customers, 3 inch are never used, not an issue. The reliability factor this gives for 2 3/4 inch shells is outstanding. I will no longer have to pull/weld up the barrel hood to be able to ensure the shells feed 100% for the competition and tactical guns. With a mild feed ramp blending/polishing and the barrel hood extension, FTFs are not in issue.

 

Jack

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I just checked the S12 that I modded. When handcycling, the rounds have plenty of clearance and eject fine. After the shell is fired and the end is uncrimped, it may be close. With weapons, things don't always happen like we think they will and I am very curious as to what will be the result. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say it is going to work fine. I needed a good excuse for a range trip anyways

[werra 1]

I will look at the serrial on mine and try to reduce the file size of the pics I took when I get home this evening. I won't be able to test 3" shells until I get my BCG & FCG back from Cobra. BTW, he is also adding an HD op-rod. I wounder if the extra weight will help with over gassing?

 

So, hopefully tonight I will have some good pics and serial number for ya'll.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I will look at the serrial on mine and try to reduce the file size of the pics I took when I get home this evening. I won't be able to test 3" shells until I get my BCG & FCG back from Cobra. BTW, he is also adding an HD op-rod. I wounder if the extra weight will help with over gassing?

 

So, hopefully tonight I will have some good pics and serial number for ya'll.

 

I've got your parts about ready to start now actually, clearing out about a dozen other sets right now, and yours is next in line. I would be too worried about all that over gassing talk if I were you. Wait til you get the parts all in there, and get to the range with it. If you end up with any issues at all I will be very surprised. There are also lots of things one can do to tune an S-12 to it's existing gas system, with all the various after market parts now available. Weight can be added or spring pressures reduced, gas can be turned up or down, etc. Don't get all worried about the fact that your gun runs just fine.

[werra 1]

 

I've got your parts about ready to start now actually, clearing out about a dozen other sets right now, and yours is next in line. I would be too worried about all that over gassing talk if I were you. Wait til you get the parts all in there, and get to the range with it. If you end up with any issues at all I will be very surprised. There are also lots of things one can do to tune an S-12 to it's existing gas system, with all the various after market parts now available. Weight can be added or spring pressures reduced, gas can be turned up or down, etc. Don't get all worried about the fact that your gun runs just fine.

 

 

Thanks Cobra! Can't wait to see the results!! I know it will be impressive work!

Also, thanks for the reassurance on the gas system - I was just surprised to see that it had 4 ports instead of three and that it cycled cheap walmart low brass target loads on setting one. I will be testing it out as soon as my new improved BCG comes in.