Zambidis 90 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I am looking to complete my latest S308 project. The intended use of this rifle is in 300-600 yard shooting. It has an Ultimak rail, a dinzag trigger, a TWS top cover/ rail, and a burris 3x9 with balisticplex recticle. Now I need to get a proper stock. The above option in the poll are what I am looking at. I like the idea of a folder to make it a more compact package to store and transport. It also allows for more discrete transport than a long rifle case when that is desired. However, I want to assure it is stable enough for shooting at 600 yards. I'm interest to hear the thoughts of others. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 None of the above... The damned PRS is just too frikkin heavy. I'd do Block/Pig/UBR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) What check riser options are available for the UBR? I cannot stand guns that don't allow for a proper cheek weld. Besides being annoying it is an accuracy killer. The TWS is low, but to keep the scope from hitting where the rear sight (and the TWS cover) mounts I cannot use low rings (it bugs the crap out of me). I've been thinking of a UBR for my .223. However I think I'll stick to using it just one my Noveske. I'm not sure what I think of the look of the UBR on an AK. Some I've seen on AKs looked kind of funny to me. Others might not be too bad. It might be the UBR with the folding mechanism that looks funny, IDK. Edited October 16, 2011 by Zambidis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I like the look of UBR on the AK. I think the UBR is too heavy for 7.62 & 5.45 usage, but good for .308, especially .308 with 21" barrel. Also looks wicked on the shotties. IIRC, don't the MagPul cheek risers for the MOE/CTR stocks work with the UBR? ETA: NVM.... researching something. ETA: Yep, I thought they did, thought I remembered this... http://www.ar15.com/...&f=124&t=160919 Page 2 of MagPul UBR Users Guide, http://cdn.magpul.co...r-final_web.pdf Edited October 16, 2011 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I didn't know they worked with the UBR. That is good to know. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 None of the above. Fab-Defense M4AK http://www.makosecurity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=M4AK&Category_Code=_AK47Stocks Steel Galil type hinge, no need to cut the tang and probably 2-4x stronger than any aftermarket folding stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funkytrain 4 Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 None of the above , anything that represents a true ak-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 $358 ........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 $358. for a well made, folding/collapsible stock isn't a great deal, but it isn't horrifying either. My VLTOR AK adapter tube and Emod stock, costs a total of $205.00 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan6864 11 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 $358. for a well made, folding/collapsible stock isn't a great deal, but it isn't horrifying either. I guess that depends on what you consider horrifying I bought my first saiga 308 for $450 and my second one for under $350. It is just a stock nothing more all it does is give the rifle a place to rest on your shoulder. Until I find a stock that will grant 3 wishes I just can't see spending just shy of what I paid for the entire rifle. Id much rather spend my money on ammo and range time than a chunk of plastic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 No ordinary chunk of plastic there.... Some high quality Polymer, Aluminum & Steel. Not going to have some of the problems too common to many well regarded folders, e.g. Ace. I know where you're coming from though. Its why I don't have Aimpoints & Trijicon ACOGs on my ARs/AKs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 None of the above , anything that represents a true ak-47 Like it being chambered in .308 Win ? A typical AK stock simply wont function as needed for my intended purposes. I don't build for looks be it tacticool or traditional. I select parts based on function. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funkytrain 4 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) None of the above , anything that represents a true ak-47 Like it being chambered in .308 Win ? A typical AK stock simply wont function as needed for my intended purposes. I don't build for looks be it tacticool or traditional. I select parts based on function. Ok first thing yes 308 isn't an atypical ak but Russian 762x54 is and the 308 a is a good representation of that caliber/case with advantages of ammo availability . Second thing is Build ur rifle however u want whether it be " TACTICOOL " or traditional or a clone or for the function u see fit for what u need but this thread is about voting on what u want as an individual . So imo if u want a long range weapon don't those normally have fixed stocks not folders and if you have bank (i dont) u can afford the higher quality stuff that will handle 308 abuse. Mine still need accessorys to finish the look I want but its comfortable I can make headshots a 200 yds with steel sights and 2 in moa with a scope but haven't stretched it much further than that saving $ for a good bdc reticle scope . Edited November 5, 2011 by funkytrain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 So imo if u want a long range weapon don't those normally have fixed stocks not folders and if you have bank (i dont) u can afford the higher quality stuff that will handle 308 abuse. No not necessarily. Two examples of very fine long range weapons should suffice. First the Accuracy international Arctic Warfare Second the Sako TGR-42 Folding stocks are handy for storage and transport. That is why I want one. I, however, want one that will be stable and work well for shooting at moderately long ranges. My issue with a typical AK stock is it just doesn't give me a proper cheek weld with a scope on my gen 2 TWS rail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funkytrain 4 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) So imo if u want a long range weapon don't those normally have fixed stocks not folders and if you have bank (i dont) u can afford the higher quality stuff that will handle 308 abuse. No not necessarily. Two examples of very fine long range weapons should suffice. First the Accuracy international Arctic Warfare Second the Sako TGR-42 Folding stocks are handy for storage and transport. That is why I want one. I, however, want one that will be stable and work well for shooting at moderately long ranges. My issue with a typical AK stock is it just doesn't give me a proper cheek weld with a scope on my gen 2 TWS rail. Ok my only problem with your examples is their bolt action and that the rifles are built with the folder not an accessory like in the situation we are discussing now. And aren't those rifles in a much larger caliber ? Imo a rifle shouldn't have a folder just for convenience of storage it should function folded also and some of the stocks that are long range shooter friendly are to bulky folded . Mine has the lowest profile mounts to get a 3x9x40 to clear the rear sight and it feels fine to me , but no matter what you do it will never feel like a bolt action rifle made with a sniper in mind . Idk if u want some ease of storage and a good cheek weld get collapsing not folding . But just my opinion. Wow just looked up info on those rifles and they are couple of thousand nice not ak cheap no comparison . Just the plastic alone is over 1k . Edited November 5, 2011 by funkytrain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Ok my only problem with your examples is their (sic) bolt action I'm not really sure how them being bolt action or auto loaders is really here or there to be honest. and that the rifles are built with the folder not an accessory like in the situation we are discussing now. Again I'm not really sure why that is important. The question was don't long range rifles have fixed stocks and the answer is not not necessarily. Basically many counter examples to your question are going to be factory offering. The guns pictured are built for long range work, and have folders that is the point. We are talking about adding a stock to a rifle being pressed into Long-ish range use. I'm adding an "accessory" or after market part simply because Saigas don't come into the US with folders or stocks well suited to using optics.. I'm not sure how it being a non OME part should per se count against use of a folder? And aren't those rifles in a much larger caliber ? They are available in calibers both larger and smaller. You can get an AI in .223 up to a 50 BMG. Both are also available in .308. Wow just looked up info on those rifles and they are couple of thousand nice not ak cheap no comparison Yes they are nice rifles with nice feature and the are costly. I'm not sure how that refutes in the least the idea that long range weapons as a rule have fixed stocks or that having folding capabilities would not be useful for my purposes. I want a folder for the same reasons those cost is not an issue rifles include them. Mine has the lowest profile mounts to get a 3x9x40 to clear the rear sight and it feels fine to me , but no matter what you do it will never feel like a bolt action rifle made with a sniper in mind . It might feel right to you but I can assure you it wouldn't to me. A stock that gives a good cheek weld with irons simply will not also give a good cheek weld with a optic that is sitting higher than those irons. There is no way around that. You need a riser or something that adjusts. but no matter what you do it will never feel like a bolt action rifle made with a sniper in mind . I'm not sure what you mean by feel like a bolt action. One certainly can have a stock that is stable and give a cheek good cheek weld and that is what's needed. Imo a rifle shouldn't have a folder just for convenience of storage it should function folded also and some of the stocks that are long range shooter friendly are to bulky folded . The biggest reasons to have a folder is to make it easier to transport, conceal and store the weapon. I'm not really sure why else one would want one apart from those reasons. I certainly have no use for one apart from those things on this build. As to "functioning folded", I'm not sure what you even mean. The function of stock is per se not there when it is folded. Do you mean that the rifle can still be fired? It will do that but when looking at the purpose of these rifles when is it going to be fired with the stock folded. This isn't a PDW or the like. I'm not trying to be rude but it seems you don't really know much about the type of rifle I'm looking to build or the products in question. Thanks for your input but I don't care to be challenged on things you don't really know about. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
funkytrain 4 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Um let's see u make a lot of good points I am not a mountain of knowledge when it comes to the multitude if firearms , and I'm not tryin to be a Dick and challenge u. I'm just voicing my opinion of what I would want if I was to install a folding stock to me its not for storage its for close quarters combat and and the ability to shoulder for longer range . So we have different views as to the need of a folding stock I agree to disagree . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 a folding stock to me its not for storage its for close quarters combat Usually the stocks get unfolded even if the combat is close quarters. The stock isn't there to fold away for close range shooting, its for carrying the weapon under your jacket or getting in and out of vehicles. Back when the secret service carried Uzis the SOP was to immediately deploy the stock upon taking the weapon out. You'll never see a SWAT team with folded stocks going into a house. I used to work somewhere where I saw a lot of MP5 PDWs under jackets of guys in various VIPs security details. It is my understanding they do the same thing deploy the stock then put the weapon to use. The folding stock is not for shooting with it folded, its for letting the gun fit into a smaller space, be that to hide it, transport it, or store it, when its not being used. As my first post said this is a gun intended to be set up for shooting from 300-600 yards. Thus, what is good for CQB is really neither here nor there with this build. If I was looking for CQB stuff I wouldn't even be considering a PRS and I wouldn't have a 3x9 optic on it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It's not a folder, but Rhineland makes a very nice PSL/SVD style thumbhole stock, complete with adjustable cheek riser. It gets shipped as bare wood, so you need to finish it yourself, though. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well since someone voted and this was bumped back up, I figured I'd offer an update. I bought both a CTR and PRS as well as the ACE AR folding mechanism. I may try the folding mechanism on another gun first and see how I like it before I commit to cutting the tang on the 308. I just need to get some rings to mount my scope. As an aside, something that kind of bugs me is that the TWS top cover is touted as a way to mount a scope lower. In reality it seems I will need such higher rings to get the scope tube to clear the area where the rear sight was that there is not real advantage. Hopefully in a couple weeks when I have some free time I will get around to getting the scope mounted and actually shooting the thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 I put the ACE AR folding mechanism, with a ACE Hammer on mine. I think you'll like it Zambidis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 How stable is the stock with the ACE mechanism? That is my main concern. If there is wobble then it seems like it would defeat the purpose of the whole build. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 There is some wobble with the ACE folder. However that has not been an issue with accuracy for me. I do have a CSS folder on a .223 that is rock solid, but it's a bitch to fold. So either way you have to give a little something for the folder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 I would suggest that before you cut the tang, you consider this option http://www.bonesteel...tube-akfstb.htm it locks tighter, is lighter and strongre than the ACE, does not bolt together with screws, and gives you more useable adjustment. if you need a folder without wobble this is for you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) ^ That looks like a pretty cool product, solid and a very simple way to put a folding AR-style stock on any Saiga without cutting the tang. Nice work, Bonesteel Arms. This thread reminded me... I've got a bunch of new stock parts laying around that I really should assemble on my S-308.. including a CTR and an Enidine Shot Shock tube. The theory is that it will elimate most/all felt recoil, assisting with quick and accurate follow-up shots. Maybe I'll actually put it together this weekend and see. Edited April 4, 2012 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 As an aside, something that kind of bugs me is that the TWS top cover is touted as a way to mount a scope lower. In reality it seems I will need such higher rings to get the scope tube to clear the area where the rear sight was that there is not real advantage. Hopefully in a couple weeks when I have some free time I will get around to getting the scope mounted and actually shooting the thing. It depends on what kind of scope you are mounting. If you are mounting one of the lower power types that have just a straight tube out the front, you can get it lower with the TWS than with just about any other mount. The "dogleg" is indeed in the way if you want to mount a more normal, higher power scope, as is more appropriate for the S308. Remember that the TWS was designed more for a standard AK with its shorter ranged cartridge, and putting one on a .308 was more of an afterthought. Maybe somebody will come up with a better mount, but for now the TWS is probably the best one. Which is not the same as saying it is perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Poll Closed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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