brad cole 65 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 If you shorten a barrel, then weld a bayonet to the barrel to achieve legal length is that legit. I like the look of short barrel but its not allowed here in mich. If anyone has info it would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm not an expert or the BATFE but I'm gonna say probably not. That sucks that sbr's are a no no there. Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) If you shorten a barrel, then weld a bayonet to the barrel to achieve legal length is that legit. I like the look of short barrel but its not allowed here in mich. If anyone has info it would be appreciated. No. You cant weld a bowling trophy on there to make it legal length, either. Edited December 19, 2011 by DogMan 6 Link to post Share on other sites
ThirtyAughtSix 101 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 The whole purpose of a shortened barrel is compactness. Adding something to it to make the length longer than the barrel kind of defeats the purpose. Plus you'll lose power and the only thing you'll gain is a funky looking weapon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 About the only thing that you *can* do is have a permanently-attached brake or flash suppressor to bring your overall length up to spec. I'm not sure that's really worth all the headache. Stick with a 16.5" rifle or 19" shotgun barrel. Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 The whole purpose of a shortened barrel is compactness. Adding something to it to make the length longer than the barrel kind of defeats the purpose. Plus you'll lose power and the only thing you'll gain is a funky looking weapon. True, but stupid laws make for stupid measures. I'm not sure if a bayonet would count towards bbl length. I vaguely remember reading about any legal extension having to encircle the bullet path, but don;t quote me. Link to post Share on other sites
ThirtyAughtSix 101 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 The whole purpose of a shortened barrel is compactness. Adding something to it to make the length longer than the barrel kind of defeats the purpose. Plus you'll lose power and the only thing you'll gain is a funky looking weapon. True, but stupid laws make for stupid measures. I'm not sure if a bayonet would count towards bbl length. I vaguely remember reading about any legal extension having to encircle the bullet path, but don;t quote me. Oh I'm quoting you.... lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
brad cole 65 Posted December 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 thanks for the direction guys idea crapholed. I was just desperate and stretching any idea past real thought. full barrel period or I could just move Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Not quite. You could start with a 16.5" (rifle) barrel and a 2" brake/comp/flash hider. Cut 2" off the barrel and then permanently attach the muzzle device. Same overall length as the plain barrel, but you get the advantage of the brake. That's about as close as you can get to a SBR/SBS in those states that don't allow them. Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 They will measure your barrel from the closed bolt face to the MUZZLE. It doesn't matter what other crap sticks out past. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 So, as long as you have a permanently-attached brake/comp/flash suppressor, they're measuring to the very end of the muzzle device, right? I just want to confirm before I spend money and do something potentially stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Yes. The ATF also defines "permanently attached". To be strictly legal, this work has to be done by a C2 SOT, since you will have committed a felony when you cut the barrel below 18". 2 Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Scott-From one michigan guy to another, if your goal is to get this below 30" so it can be registered and carried as a pistol (truck gun) purchase a Draco and go from there. It's already registered as a pistol, then add the appropriate length flash hider and pin and weld it THEN add your folding stock, make sure this is the last step you do so that you don't accidently create an SBR. Quick and easy for our stupid Michigan laws. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Yes. The ATF also defines "permanently attached". To be strictly legal, this work has to be done by a C2 SOT, since you will have committed a felony when you cut the barrel below 18". Coolness. I was thinking about that for a Tromix conversion, actually. I know I'd be breaking the law if I did it myself. The curse of not knowing where you will be living in the future makes it just too much of a pain in the butt to mess with NFA items, but a compensated S12 would be an excellent compromise. Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Yes. The ATF also defines "permanently attached". To be strictly legal, this work has to be done by a C2 SOT, since you will have committed a felony when you cut the barrel below 18". Only if the barrel is still attached to the receiver, right? How difficult is it to remove the barrel from a Saiga 12? Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Kenny 144 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Hydraulic press and a couple specialty tools made from brass to avoid screwing up the barrel or receiver. It's something that can be done by John Q. Public, but it's something I will happily pay someone else to do. Besides, I think the licensed types don't have to dismount the barrel, it's only us unlicensed folks that have to jump through the extra hoop. Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 I remember asking the same question in chat this summer. LOL Great minds must think alike.......as does ours. Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hydraulic press and a couple specialty tools made from brass to avoid screwing up the barrel or receiver. It's something that can be done by John Q. Public, but it's something I will happily pay someone else to do. Besides, I think the licensed types don't have to dismount the barrel, it's only us unlicensed folks that have to jump through the extra hoop. Even 4 an experienced smith it can be a pain in the ....... Yep it's the licenced types who pay thousands of $ a year, and send in forms to legally cut down a weapon..I myself think they are jumping thru rings of fire. There was a previous poster a couple of years ago that was ex law enforcement who made fun of people who thought cutting down a barrel under legal length then immediatly perminatly attaching was a no no He consistantly posted that....let me get this right...the batf was spying on people and ready to break your door down as soon as the hacksaw meat the barrel. Sorry it's late...just can't put up with......... sorry signing off Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Yes. The ATF also defines "permanently attached". To be strictly legal, this work has to be done by a C2 SOT, since you will have committed a felony when you cut the barrel below 18". Only if the barrel is still attached to the receiver, right? How difficult is it to remove the barrel from a Saiga 12? It doesn't make any difference whether or not the barrel is physically attached to the receiver. Without an NFA tax stamp specific to the fiream in question, it is a felony for an unlicenced person to cut a shotgun barrel below 18", for any purpose. Link to post Share on other sites
markdavidson 28 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 2 Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 ^^^^ WORD. The word is EXPEDITIOUSLY. Link to post Share on other sites
markdavidson 28 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) I posted this question on 3 different boards, and have been given three answers with over 600 views. 1. unless you are doing this in the backroom of the ATF, nobody will know... 2. It's legal 3. NO DON'T DO IT you are going to the federal pound me in the a$$ prison the only two pieces of documentation I have seen is a letter (non-binding), and a reference to a SCOTUS decision reached on US v Thompson Center. what I do, or have done in my shop with the doors locked and the light low, is my business and mine alone, but I feel a responsibility to know ALL the laws regarding actions or activities in which I am engaged. I CCW and therefore I know the laws intimately, because I alone are the one responsible for them... this is no different. I can draw 2 conclusions from this... there are a lot of home tinkerers that are doing things irresponsibly because they don't have the real answers, or this question has been definitively answered and no one cares to take the time to chime in. Edited March 8, 2012 by markdavidson Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks Mark. I believe i have seen the letter before. As there is no signature, no way of authenitcating it, and the letter as shown is incomplete, I don't believe any conclusions can or should be drawn from it, or actions (justificaltions) taken citing the contents. The forum moderator responsible for NFA questions has stated his position on the matter clearly and in no uncertain terms here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/75023-cutting-down-the-barrel/ Link to post Share on other sites
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