Saiga 12 cycling issues, low brass issues, issues issues issues!&#

[mhagarman 2]

Maybe you could help me, I'm really at my wits end with this saiga 12 I have. Out of the box it cycled low brass ammo just fine. Then it started messing up. It wouldn't eject the round the whole way, it would catch it sideways in the ejection port. I painted the gun, which idk if that effected it, but none the less it doesn't cycle. I've shot remington heavy dove loads, winchester universal, federal target loads, and walmarts federal value pack. None cycle. I've shot federal high brass and 00 buck shot and it doesn't cycle either.

 

I have done hours of research online on different forums and I have done everything they have recommended. I polished the bolt, cleaned out the gas block, checked the gas ports, even took off the quad rail to make sure it wasn't blocking the gas ejection port on the block itself. I even bought the carolina shooting supplys low brass reliability kit. Same problem. No matter which of the 6 gas settings on it, it doesn't cycle. It will catch the round sideways or the bolt doesn't even blow back?

 

I don't know where to send it to get it fixed, or even who to call to ask questions about the saiga. I don't know how even to call about a warrenty issue. Any help would be great! I really don't know what to do at this point.

[Bridis 319]

Did you convert it? When you painted it, did you paint the internal parts?

 

There are plenty of vendors here that could get it running again. Just pick one from the vendors page. I'm also sure someone from here that lives close to you might give you a hand as well.

 

GL.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Bridis

[armory 142]

What does it feel like when you hand cycle it? Does it do that smoothly??

And how did you check your ports??

You do have a gas puck in it, correct?

Edited March 4, 2012 by armory

[kyvtx1300 5]

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/39881-welcome-new-users-read-this-first/

 

There is a section called "Failure to Feed" That will have a link to a non-stickied article on how big you ports should be. Either somthing is binding, very possible, or you do not have enough gas.

 

I like Bridis' idea about having someone look at it. Just having someone else take a look can solve a lot of problems. When you are fighting these things, it is easy to overlook something.

[mhagarman 2]

Not converted, but did install a collapsible stock, pistol grip and quad rail. When painted, no internal parts were painted. I checked the gas ports by using a pick. I haven't checked that they were to the right tolerance. When I pull the bolt back, it doesn't feel like its grinding or being help up. If I don't let it snap back and ride it forward manually it holds up right where the bolt's shell release goes into the gun (for lack of better word). I don't know if that matters. I live in Gettysburg so if someone can help me out that's close to here would be awesome!!! I'm gonna have to find a vendor.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Not converted, but did install a collapsible stock, pistol grip and quad rail. When painted, no internal parts were painted. I checked the gas ports by using a pick. I haven't checked that they were to the right tolerance. When I pull the bolt back, it doesn't feel like its grinding or being help up. If I don't let it snap back and ride it forward manually it holds up right where the bolt's shell release goes into the gun (for lack of better word). I don't know if that matters. I live in Gettysburg so if someone can help me out that's close to here would be awesome!!! I'm gonna have to find a vendor.

 

Check the installation of your quad around your gas tube. If you get it too tight, it can cause the weapon to bind up.

[YOT 3,743]

It sounds like your gun is under-gassed and needs a port job.

 

As far as researching online at all of the different forums........ THIS is the Saiga-12. forum. Welcome and read the stickies.

[termite 463]

But he said that it cycled low brass just fine out of the box, so something afterwards is doing it. I called myself "cleaning" my gun when mine was doing this. I found that, I think it was 2 of the gas holles where plugged with plastic from the shells. Now on every cleaning, I use an L shaped picked to make sure the holes are cleaned out good. I also have had times where crud would build up where the puck rides and make it bind up, so I use a good round wire brush chucked in my 18V drill with a lot of cleaner and make sure the puck slides smooth.

[mhagarman 2]

I tore it all apart and for starters my quad rail was way too tight. I re-drilled the 4 gas ports to 3/32" listed in the FTE thread on here. I just have to carve out some of the block yet but that won't be tonight. There WAS a ton of carbon chunks in the gas port and the puc was completely black. I don't know if that is a sign of something. I just do not know enough about russian guns. The ARMY gave me a one track mind towards things haha. Although I'd take my AK47 over my issued AR anyday.

[armory 142]

Looks like you are on the right track.

Good job and Welcome Aboard.

Carbon is normal BTW.

[bsiburt 1]

I tore it all apart and for starters my quad rail was way too tight. I re-drilled the 4 gas ports to 3/32" listed in the FTE thread on here. I just have to carve out some of the block yet but that won't be tonight. There WAS a ton of carbon chunks in the gas port and the puc was completely black. I don't know if that is a sign of something. I just do not know enough about russian guns. The ARMY gave me a one track mind towards things haha. Although I'd take my AK47 over my issued AR anyday.

 

Mine did this when I installed a quad rail. When I took the rail off, the gun cycled fine. Even with the cheap stuff. Changed out the furniture and all is good. The quad rail seems to tweek the gas tube just enough to screw things up.

[Paulie_Wallnutz 4]

But he said that it cycled low brass just fine out of the box, so something afterwards is doing it. I called myself "cleaning" my gun when mine was doing this. I found that, I think it was 2 of the gas holles where plugged with plastic from the shells. Now on every cleaning, I use an L shaped picked to make sure the holes are cleaned out good. I also have had times where crud would build up where the puck rides and make it bind up, so I use a good round wire brush chucked in my 18V drill with a lot of cleaner and make sure the puck slides smooth.

 

You shouldn't do that. You will ruin the chrome lining in it.

[mhagarman 2]

UPDATE

 

I took it to the range today after I drilled the gas ports and filed out the gas block opening to show all 4 gas ports.

 

Factory Plug:

Low Brass- Jams 2 out of 10 (used Winchester Universal, Remington Walmart Value Pack)

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 (used federal high brass, 00 Buck, 000 Buck & steel shot)

 

CSS Reliability:

Low Brass- Jams 2-10 on setting #3 which is the only setting that worked

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 on the 3rd high brass setting

 

 

 

I dont know what else to do! It was a huge improvement compared to the jamming of every 2nd round before I drilled the gas ports out. But I feel that jamming 1-2 out of every 10 of every ammo shot out of it is unacceptable. I have already polished the bolt and slides, so I'm really at a loss at this point. TROMIX said it could be a bolt issue? The extractor leg or something like that. Any suggestions?!

[armory 142]

UPDATE

 

I took it to the range today after I drilled the gas ports and filed out the gas block opening to show all 4 gas ports.

 

Factory Plug:

Low Brass- Jams 2 out of 10 (used Winchester Universal, Remington Walmart Value Pack)

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 (used federal high brass, 00 Buck, 000 Buck & steel shot)

 

CSS Reliability:

Low Brass- Jams 2-10 on setting #3 which is the only setting that worked

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 on the 3rd high brass setting

 

 

 

I dont know what else to do! It was a huge improvement compared to the jamming of every 2nd round before I drilled the gas ports out. But I feel that jamming 1-2 out of every 10 of every ammo shot out of it is unacceptable. I have already polished the bolt and slides, so I'm really at a loss at this point. TROMIX said it could be a bolt issue? The extractor leg or something like that. Any suggestions?!

Try Federal Walmart bulk pack. It has jut a pinch more punch to cycle and is the same price.

Winchester and Remington are known not to cycle in some guns right on the cusp.

Edited March 11, 2012 by armory

[mhagarman 2]

UPDATE

 

I took it to the range today after I drilled the gas ports and filed out the gas block opening to show all 4 gas ports.

 

Factory Plug:

Low Brass- Jams 2 out of 10 (used Winchester Universal, Remington Walmart Value Pack)

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 (used federal high brass, 00 Buck, 000 Buck & steel shot)

 

CSS Reliability:

Low Brass- Jams 2-10 on setting #3 which is the only setting that worked

High Brass- Jams 1-2 out of 10 on the 3rd high brass setting

 

 

 

I dont know what else to do! It was a huge improvement compared to the jamming of every 2nd round before I drilled the gas ports out. But I feel that jamming 1-2 out of every 10 of every ammo shot out of it is unacceptable. I have already polished the bolt and slides, so I'm really at a loss at this point. TROMIX said it could be a bolt issue? The extractor leg or something like that. Any suggestions?!

Try Federal Walmart bulk pack. It has jut a pinch more punch to cycle and is the same price.

Winchester and Remington are known not to cycle in some guns right on the cusp.

 

Do you think that is all it is? Just change up the ammo and it shouldn't jam anymore? It jammed on high brass loads too. I'm just worried it could be something else thats small and i'm just overlooking it, or dont have the knowledge of catching something other than the obvious.

[armory 142]

How is jamming? Be more precise. Stovepipe? FTE??

What mag are you using? It wouldn't happen to be a Promag is it??? Maybe jams on the first one or two or three then runs fine?

[mhagarman 2]

I've had some stovepipes, but most of them are FTEs, they get stuck sideways or cock eyed in the ejection port.

 

I am using the factory 5 rnd and a promag 10 round. Usually in the first 3 rounds 1 jams and the last one most of the time jams.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Run Federal bulk, Winchester is horrible in these weapons!

[unclejake 428]

Run Federal bulk, Winchester is horrible in these weapons!

Yeah, I found this out today! Had some issues with a little overspray, took all apart, polished and buffed, and ran two boxes of Federal through it, no problems, Loaded up a mag from a free box of Winchester, and just about every round, FTE! Well, wifey can use it in her tricked out Mossy Pump!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Run Federal bulk, Winchester is horrible in these weapons!

not in mine....

[mhagarman 2]

I'll try the federal bulk as a last resort, if that still doesn't work i'll have to figure out who to send it to to get it looked at. Nobody around Gettysburg, PA will know anything about saiga 12s so is there anyone you guys on here suggest? I already have so much invested, i'm just wondering if i should just sell it and cut my losses or if its worth spending the extra money to get it looked at and fixed.

[armory 142]

I think you are still a little undergassed and just need a little more work.

Plus Promags are not the best, AGP or SGM are much better.

You are almost there. Don't give up.

Have you read all the sticikies pinned at the top in the forum for solutions?

[unclejake 428]

YES it is worth it to get whatever is causing your problem fixed and hanging onto the Saiga, I know that you are probably frustrated at this point, but running right, there is not another shotty out there like them...period!

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Run Federal bulk, Winchester is horrible in these weapons!

not in mine....

 

Mine either, but he ain't got the same amount of work in his shit as we do...

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Run Federal bulk, Winchester is horrible in these weapons!

not in mine....

 

Mine either, but he ain't got the same amount of work in his shit as we do...

Gotta let 'em know it can be done though. Inspiration....

[mhagarman 2]

Thanks for the inspiration evlblkwpnz and unclejake. But yea I truly haven't put a whole lot into mine as others have. All I've done is install the tapco collapsible stock and pistol grip, quad rail, minor things here and there. I bought the CSS low brass reliability kit and have gone through the stickies. I've re-drilled the 4 gas ports to 5/64" and filed the gas block opening to expose the 4 ports. I've polished the bolt and rails and that's it. So not too much, but the gun is only 2 months old. Maybe I am under-gassed still, taking the gas block back off makes me shudder at the thought.

 

Is there anywhere you guys suggest me sending it to? Somewhere they will know what's going on and won't cost me an arm and a leg? I just got out of the Army so I'm not rich haha. I really appreciate all the help from everyone on here. Its really been helpful so far!

[armory 142]

Thanks for the inspiration evlblkwpnz and unclejake. But yea I truly haven't put a whole lot into mine as others have. All I've done is install the tapco collapsible stock and pistol grip, quad rail, minor things here and there. I bought the CSS low brass reliability kit and have gone through the stickies. I've re-drilled the 4 gas ports to 5/64" and filed the gas block opening to expose the 4 ports. I've polished the bolt and rails and that's it. So not too much, but the gun is only 2 months old. Maybe I am under-gassed still, taking the gas block back off makes me shudder at the thought.

 

Is there anywhere you guys suggest me sending it to? Somewhere they will know what's going on and won't cost me an arm and a leg? I just got out of the Army so I'm not rich haha. I really appreciate all the help from everyone on here. Its really been helpful so far!

I would see if any forum members live close to your location. That would be the cheapest!!!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

Thanks for the inspiration evlblkwpnz and unclejake. But yea I truly haven't put a whole lot into mine as others have. All I've done is install the tapco collapsible stock and pistol grip, quad rail, minor things here and there. I bought the CSS low brass reliability kit and have gone through the stickies. I've re-drilled the 4 gas ports to 5/64" and filed the gas block opening to expose the 4 ports. I've polished the bolt and rails and that's it. So not too much, but the gun is only 2 months old. Maybe I am under-gassed still, taking the gas block back off makes me shudder at the thought.

 

Is there anywhere you guys suggest me sending it to? Somewhere they will know what's going on and won't cost me an arm and a leg? I just got out of the Army so I'm not rich haha. I really appreciate all the help from everyone on here. Its really been helpful so far!

 

If you haven't taken off the quad rail completely do it and put the stock hand-guard back on, I have built at least a 100 or so S12s and every once in a while we see one that doesn't like the quad rail. If you have ever seen one of these shoot in slow motion the flex is tremendous, a lot of the quad rails will prevent this flex or allow one side to flex more than the other. As you can imagine this will cause the gun to bind and not cycle. I always tell people to put the gun back to stock and add one part at a time until they find what is causing the problem. I had a gun once that cycled anything until I put a side mounted optic red dot combo, after 300 or so rounds and loads of frustration I took it off and surprise the gun ate everything again.

[mhagarman 2]

HERE ARE PICS OF THE MODS AS OF NOW, MAYBE YOU GUYS CAN SEE A PROBLEM, CAN UPLOAD MORE PICS UPON REQUEST OF DIFFERENT PARTS

 

By mhagarman at 2012-03-11

By mhagarman at 2012-03-11

By mhagarman at 2012-03-11

By mhagarman at 2012-03-11

[armory 142]

Try it with the stock handguard on it instead the rail like NinerRider suggested.