Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 While at the range testing out the Saiga, I also brought my Glock 23, and my XD 9 mm. I let me buddy shoot the Glock for a bit, and he started sqeeling after a shot. I thought he was just being a sissy, complaining about the recoil of the .40, after shooting the 9mm. Once he put the Glock down on the table, I knew something was wrong. He had black power on this hands, where his left hand cupped the bottom of the mag well, and on his right index finger, which was closest to the slide. No injury, thank god, but a tiny bit of powder and lead in his left palm. The shell was still in the chamber. The end cap was ejected. The blast basically went through every possible escape path. It seems like the mag well was the easiest route. It never ejected the mag, but it sure took a blast. I don't know what that small piece is called, but it blew it off, and the pin and spring were hanging out. It doesn't look like there is any structural damage. Need to take it in on Saturday and have it checked out. After researching, it seems like it might have been bad brass? Yes this was a reload, but I seriously doubt it was an overcharge. My press uses the disc, which scrapes the measurement, which makes it very difficult to overcharge a round. Any thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Are you're reloads FMJ or lead bullet? Glocks are known for having this happen on occasion when using lead bullets. The barrel rifling fouls more than standard cut rifling and can cause over pressure issues with results similar to what you have in the photos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wearefla 16 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Ooh, extractor went bye bye, where did it land? You and your buddy lucked out. Without knowing, I would have asked first, was this a reload? An object lesson for why we should always wear high quality polycarbonate eye protection. I am very glad and thank God for no serious injuries, a lesser firearm might have come apart, done more damage. You are smart to have it checked by gunsmith, if you're lucky you can replace extractor, spring, plunger, and keep on rockin'. Yeah, I would guess it was the brass if you didn't load it hot, how many reloads do you do before brass recycling? You know not to shoot lead bullets in a factory barrel right? Edited May 23, 2012 by wearefla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Looks like the pistol did a good job containing a kaboom. Looks like all you lost was the extractor claw. Good call having it thoroughly inspected for damage. How badly damaged was the next round in the magazine, and the magazine itself? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is a brand new gun. Only the second time it's been shot. Yes they were relaods, and yes lead bullets. And yes, factory barrel. I know of the warnings, but I've shot hundreds of lead reloads through my last Glock 23c (stolen in home burglary). No way was the barrel rifling fouled. It looks new. Looks like the pistol did a good job containing a kaboom. Looks like all you lost was the extractor claw. Good call having it thoroughly inspected for damage. How badly damaged was the next round in the magazine, and the magazine itself? The mag has some slight "burn" damage. I think it's ok, but you can definitely see where it took the most blast. The next round in the mag took a bit of a beating, but it also looked ok. I can take some pics of them when I get home. The gun held up amazingly well. I was freaked out, but my buddy was pretty calm about it. I think because the damage was held to a minimum, it took away from the "holy shit" factor. I assume that if there is no structural damage, the extractor claw can be replaced? Any idea on cost? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Seems to be luck of the draw on using lead reloads in Glocks. Heard lots of stories like yours. Some guns never have an issue and other end up like the one in your pics. I like Glock alot. I hate to hear and see about these kinds of problems. Lucky it wasn't worse. Might have to have it x-ray to see if there are any stress cracks you can't see. If you're really lucky Glock may warranty it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magsite20 1,664 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) While ignoring the lead part of the whole thing with reloads a very little change in the charge in some powders (like Clays) can result in wow-wee moments in shooting. I’d put this one on the reloaded shell/s not the Glock as the problem child. Edited May 23, 2012 by 20-Mags 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yes they were relaods, and yes lead bullets. And yes, factory barrel. I know of the warnings, but.... Glad everybody is ok. Warnings are warnings for a reason. This is also a particular risk on a .40 cal gun due to the pressure and not fully supported case head correct? Looks like the incident could have been predicted given the circumstances. So are you going to fix it and keep running these same reloads? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Voltia 375 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Whose reloads? Yours? Or someone else's? If the gun is as it is, and it was your reloads, check your methods and equipment and materials. Other people's reloads....don't shoot them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Definitely contact Glock. Because you were firing reloads, they might tell you to pound sand. Don't lie to them about it. Be honest - they'll help you or they won't. They were very helpful to me in the past. They might just send you a new extractor claw and plunger. It's been a few years since I've stripped a Glock slide, and I can't recall exactly how the extractor claw is retained. I think it has something to do with the firing pin safety. I'd replace all the small parts directly affected by the kaboom - possibly even the firing pin. A brand new Glock extractor will run you about $20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 yeah, not blaming the Glock at all. Would like to know what happened, so I can avoid it in the future. So many different things could have gone wrong, it's hard to know for sure. What's left of the shell looks good. No idication that it was bad brass. But it might have been weak around the base. Maybe the charge was a little hot, and the bullet was seated a hair too low? Dunno. Hopefully the gun is ok, and thankfully everyone still has their eyes and fingers in place. My reloads. I always inspect my brass, but honestly look more at the mouth of the brass than the base. That will change. I also spot check the powder charge, and it's always spot on. As far as materials, I don't think changing bullets will make a difference. I have changed power, but havent used it in the .40 rounds yet. I think I bought Tite-group this time around. If I upgraded the barrel to be able to shoot lead reloads, what barrel would you recommend? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Could've been a manufacturing defect in the original brass - the first firing could have caused microfractures, and the second detonation may have been enough to finish the job. I've had exactly this mode of failure before with Ultramax ammunition in .45 and in .223. Fortunately the .223 was in a break-action rifle, so it was an inconvenience instead of an injury. It was a huge pain in the ass getting the broken shell out of the chamber of the pistol when the .45 blew out. The damage was minimal, didn't even lose the extractor on the 1911. Could be the loading was the problem, could be it was the brass, could be a combination of the two or yet another factor not yet considered. If there was a small defect in the brass and the bullet was seated too deeply, pressures could easily spike enough for a kaboom. Edited May 23, 2012 by Shandlanos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) In looking at the shape of the brass, had you considered an out of battery discharge? I would definately have a very knowledgeable person determine the cause because and out of battery discharge will be there no matter what you feed it. Explore all angles. I had an OOBD on an XDm9 and Springfleid replaced the frame due to damage. I also was shooting reloads. They kept the frame and said it had been destroyed so they couldn't return it to me for independent inspection. CYA technique I suspect. Good luck. 1911 ETA - The pistol really should be returned to Glock for inspection regardless of whether they charge you or not. Edited May 23, 2012 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pyzik 597 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 If you admit to shooting conical nose lead through the Glock, will they still honor the warranty? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Im with 1911 on this one. Almost looks like the brass may have not been reformed completely in your press, and perhaps that caused the shell to sit a cunt hair out of battery when it went off. check your sizing dies and your case trimmer, is what I would look at. possible it was the lead bullet as was stated. Most warranties wont cover damage from reloads, and in your user manual, you will see where it states (in every other manual, as well) to only fire good condition new factory ammunition down said firearm. This gets the manufacturer off the hook, and why the retail business of selling reloads is a niche market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pimpmastak76 21 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glockmeister carries anything you need for your Glock. Parts for the slide are fairly inexpensive. The extractor is $20. As for a good aftermarket barrel, Lone Wolf or KKM. I have a Lone Wolf on my G21. Drops right in with no fitting required. Definitely have that slide x-rayed though. Always better to be safe than sorry, especially with a gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armalite_ar50 86 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Get a aftermarket barrel for the lead loads. I KB's a G17 back in the 90's with lead still have the barrel around here somewhere. Stress cracks all over form the KB. and a big bulge very visible to the naked eye. I put a Chip Mcormick barrel in it and I still have the gun all I shoot is lead. All I lost in my KB was the barrel. Like you a friend was shooting it when it happened. the slide just locked back on the bulge and we had to slam it hard to get it forward to get the gun apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
master of the bush 17 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is also a particular risk on a .40 cal gun due to the pressure and not fully supported case head correct? Correct. Leading in the barrel will cause a pressure increase and the result is what has been posted whether or not that what the OP believes. Doing that would be like believing libz are here to do you good. No lead through Glock factory barrels and the .40's are unsupported chambers for an anemic, shit round. Get you a 9 or 10. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Spoke with Glock, they said send it to them and they would replace the extractor free. They will also do a thorough inspection and send it back free. Can't beat that service. Looking at new forged barrels as we speak. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Excellent, nice to see customer support is not completely dead. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is also a particular risk on a .40 cal gun due to the pressure and not fully supported case head correct? Correct. Leading in the barrel will cause a pressure increase and the result is what has been posted whether or not that what the OP believes. Doing that would be like believing libz are here to do you good. No lead through Glock factory barrels and the .40's are unsupported chambers for an anemic, shit round. Get you a 9 or 10. It's not that I don't believe that leading in the barrel can cause this, it's that this is a brand new gun, and there was no leading at the time of the kaboom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Similiar to Springfield. Tell us if they keep the frame and send you back a different serial number. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 That's what I was thinking. How will that work? Will the new serial be transferred to my name? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YARP 300 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds like an overcharged round, or at least shows all the signs of it. case enters chamber, trigger is pulled, primer ignites, bullet starts to leave the brass (maybe the case neck was tighter then normal, did you use lube to reload?), case bulges and sticks in the chamber partially, slide attempts to cycle and the extractor (being under intense amounts of pressure) decides it's leaving the scene of the crime when it can't get the brass out. If you changed powder there's a very good chance it burns faster and created more pressure then what your used to with other powders. maybe you just got unlucky and found one that shoots out of battery? Either way I'm glad Glock is taking care of you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds like an overcharged round, or at least shows all the signs of it. case enters chamber, trigger is pulled, primer ignites, bullet starts to leave the brass (maybe the case neck was tighter then normal, did you use lube to reload?), case bulges and sticks in the chamber partially, slide attempts to cycle and the extractor (being under intense amounts of pressure) decides it's leaving the scene of the crime when it can't get the brass out. If you changed powder there's a very good chance it burns faster and created more pressure then what your used to with other powders. maybe you just got unlucky and found one that shoots out of battery? Either way I'm glad Glock is taking care of you! Same powder I have been using for about 1,000 rounds. Crimp might have been tighter, bullet might have been lower, dunno. The case end cap definitely hit the bottom of the slide, you can see the indent clearly. You can also see what looks like a deep scratch from the firing pin. I keep thinking and thinking, but there are so many variables that could have happened, it's so hard to say. But I'd really like to know, to avoid this in the future. And Yarp, love your avatar. Beautiful dog bud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
master of the bush 17 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is also a particular risk on a .40 cal gun due to the pressure and not fully supported case head correct? Correct. Leading in the barrel will cause a pressure increase and the result is what has been posted whether or not that what the OP believes. Doing that would be like believing libz are here to do you good. No lead through Glock factory barrels and the .40's are unsupported chambers for an anemic, shit round. Get you a 9 or 10. It's not that I don't believe that leading in the barrel can cause this, it's that this is a brand new gun, and there was no leading at the time of the kaboom. You start getting leading after the first shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Are you're reloads FMJ or lead bullet? Glocks are known for having this happen on occasion when using lead bullets. The barrel rifling fouls more than standard cut rifling and can cause over pressure issues with results similar to what you have in the photos. I doubt that was the cause. Even if you're shooting soft lead rnds, (which, to be on the safe side, most people shouldn't do), a Glock's barrel has to be very dirty to have any kind of overpressure problem. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 While ignoring the lead part of the whole thing with reloads a very little change in the charge in some powders (like Clays) can result in wow-wee moments in shooting. I’d put this one on the reloaded shell/s not the Glock as the problem child. Yep. That was a bad reload. This problem seems more common with .40 S&W than other pistol calibers. ...If I upgraded the barrel to be able to shoot lead reloads, what barrel would you recommend? A KKM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I am going after the brass as being bad. It looks like it was pulled apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bodam 9 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 It was either pulled apart, or blown apart. If we could figure out which, it would be easier to figure out, lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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