Kvar stock... not impressed.

[Brian M1 50]

This last weekend I decided to fix the problem of my tool kit not retracting out of the Kvar stock properly. Whoa. Wish I hadn't. One thing lead to another.

First off, I took the buttplate off. I was shocked when I saw the inside of that stock. Pitiful is the only way I could describe it. It may look rugged on the outside, but don't be fooled. This stock is wimpy. It is VERY thin, flash molding everywhere, uses an additional (not attached) block of composite for backing for the sling screws, etc.

Ok, I move on. I wrap some med grit sand paper around a roundish butterknife handle and twist and sand the channel for the tool kit. I must have sanded for 1/2 hr before I took enough off that the tool kit would slide all the way down and out without binding. I blew out the dust, and peeked inside and see one of the factory Saiga stock screws protruding in there about 1/3"! Ok, so the screws don't hang on to much. I move on.

I put the spring back in, the buttplate on, and try it out. Sure enough, the tool kit no longer binds in there. Yay!... however... it still hangs up on part of the hole in the buttplate (the side that the door hinges from). Ugh.

So I file away at the hole, elongating it slightly. Then I slather the tool kit (and channel) with teflon spray. I put it back together and BAM!... it works great! So I try it a few more time, then uh oh. hanging up again. Grr.

So I inspect the floorplate more. What's this?? The floorplate does not even sit level on the stock (it's about 1/8" not flush at one end. So I fiddle with the plate screws. Nope. It's the curvature of the plate. Argh.

So I then sand down the end of the stock so as to get the plate to sit more level. Bam! Now the plate sits level and looks flush! Yay! But then... The trap door binds more (it's in the middle) and is slow/sticky action.

So I spray Teflon (Triflow) everywhere I think it could use it. Pow! Now it works!! Tool kit pops out! It was noisy in there.. but worked! Try it a few more times and ...darn... hangs up on plate hole again. Tried over and over, it's hit or miss whether it will pop out or not. Sometimes works great, sometimes not. Kvar has a KNOWN (much talked about and publisized) issue with it's "trapdoor" feature. Unfortunately, they seem to require MUCH mod to make this feature SOMETIMES work, and at that point... they are not returnable (I think once you even mount it with screws it's not even returnable).

 

Bottom line- this stock LOOKS rugged. However... my sample sucked. It's thin, poorly crafted, fit and finish is horrible, it required MUCH works to bring it to even ATTEMPT to use it's (expensive) selling feature (trap door) and I would not bother paying more for one EVER again. I'm going with a cheaper Tapco next time. Sure, Tapco's have a looser fit and no trap door... but apparently Kvar's solution to those sucks (and for a lot more money).

 

Even better... I'd love to see a stock that has a hinged buttplate so one could use foam and put whatever they want in there! Now THAT would be awesome!!

[jimdigriz 580]

All of mine work great, and they are more rugged than they appear. But then again, I didn't try to alter mine, other than basic fitting to the receiver.

 

They are better than the Tapco variety, because the Tapco stock is insubstantial at the connection point and also relies completely on the screws to make the stock immobile. The K-Var stock doesn't even need screws if correctly fitted.

 

The K-Var stock does have at least 2 faults, though. The mechanism for holding the toolkit is hit and miss (I don't use mine), and the finish on some of them are terrible. I still can't figure out why they can't get the finish right at least.

[CFOofEVIL 8]

Mine has treated me fine, other than the same cleaning kit binding issue. It'll get stuck every now and then. If it does get stuck, banging the butt of the stock down onto the floor unsticks it with no issue.

[pyzik 597]

Bummer to hear about your experience. I had a K-var stock on my rifle for about 5 years and it never caused me any grief (other than getting my finger stuck in the trap door).

[DrThunder88 912]

The stock screws are basically there to keep the stock from walking out and don't suffer much loading parallel to their axes. As Jim mentioned, they don't really get much of a load perpendicular to their axes. So long as they bite and stay put, it's good for me. As for the sling swivel screws being held in by a separate piece of plastic, it could be argued that steel block with some machine screws would be a better alternative, since the most likely failure would seem to be from the plastic engaged with the screw threads, which would be present even if it was a single piece.

 

The flash on the mold lines is a bit chintzy, as is a buttplate that doesn't fit flush, though I would hope to notice the latter immediately upon purchasing it. The stock however is tough, despite its crappy finishing. I tried testing a bunch of stocks by breaking a piece of 1/4" poplar sitting on a punching bag (laying horizontally). The Kvar stock did break the wood without breaking itself.

[TheDarkHorse 216]

I think the Tapco stock doesn't get the credit it deserves. Having said that, I have never owned a Kvar stock, but always wanted one. I came up with a fix for the Tapco stock that might work on the Kvar...hot glue. I bought an industrial grade hot glue gun and buy the long-length bulk pack glue sticks. When the hot glue cures it has a hard rubber texture and is very solid. I have filled several of my stocks with it and they are very solid and sturdy. It also gives enough weight to counterbalance the weapon. In the case of the Kvar stock, you could insert some aluminum tubing or conduit for the return spring and fill the rest of the stock with hot glue. It will take a hollow polymer stock and make it into a solid club. It also works great on the sporting stock.

[Jaba1017 71]

Mine worked no problem. Return yours, sounds like it is a dud. No reason to have to modify it to work. If it doesn't work send it back.

[Brian M1 50]

When you compare a Kvar stock to that of a Mossberg (or Remmingington) factory synthetic stock, you'll understand what a piece of garbage the Kvar is. I've used MANY synthetic stocks (all shotgun, however) and THIS is the worst I've ever seen. I understand the Tapco isn't very significant (although it only differs astetically. The Tapco is hollow on the outside, using a solid inside with only a rib for contact on the outside, while the Kvar is solid on the OUTSIDE, giving full contact, but hallow on the inside. So they achieve the same result with different approaches), however I'm so dissapointed with the Kvar junk, I'll never buy another Kvar product again. I have, in my hand, a factory mossberg 500 stock which I just took off. I cannot believe how much more stout it is than that POS I just put on my AK (Kvar). That's a shame.

[Brian M1 50]

I realize I've said some really negative stuff about Kvar in my last post. So now I'm going to back it up.

This is the Kvar junk:

 

And THIS is what a normal (quality) synthetic stock such as a Remmington/Mossberg/etc (in this case, THIS is a Mossberg 500 factory synthetic stock) look like. Notice the thickness, the quality of molding, the lack of flashing, the quality of edges where screws insert, etc. THIS is a stock a that costs less than the Kvar!:

Kvar should be ashamed of themselves, and I hope anyone that questions their quality refers to this comparison.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Brian M1

[Agent Lemon 157]

Nice coca cola Brian.

 

When my cleaning kit refuses to come out of the buttstock, I just take a cartridge and stick the tip of the bullet nose into the hole in the center of the cleaning kit cap. Comes right out. Never had to destroy a buttstock over the cleaning kit.

 

If you're out in the field, surely you have at least one cartridge, right?

 

Perhaps the tapco will serve you better indeed. I heard that they make handguards and magazines, too. Much easier on the wallet as well.

[TheDarkHorse 216]

Can't argue with those comparison pictures...

That kvar is mighty thin-walled. I guess I may just buy one and try my hot-glue fix on it. It made a world of difference in my past attempts. I'd have to get a used one though. Can't see paying retail for something I have to repair/improve.

[Fallschirmjager667 729]

fuck tapco, fuck kvar, go get a bulgarian plum set for $45 from apex gun parts

[jimdigriz 580]

fuck tapco, fuck kvar, go get a bulgarian plum set for $45 from apex gun parts

 

If you have 922r parts to spare. However, the Bulgarian buttstock is not likely to be significantly different in construction or quality from the K-Var stock. (Which is to say that it's more than good enough).

[TheDarkHorse 216]

Fuck 922r.

 

Nothing in the second amendment about having to mix and match parts. Thats some bullshit that the burro-crats conjured up to mind fuck us.

[jimdigriz 580]

Fuck 922r.

 

Nothing in the second amendment about having to mix and match parts. Thats some bullshit that the burro-crats conjured up to mind fuck us.

 

OK, it's bullshit. But if ever they decide to target you, it's best to give them nothing to work with. I'm not risking prison over something piddly.

[mancat 2,368]

Fuck 922r.

 

Nothing in the second amendment about having to mix and match parts. Thats some bullshit that the burro-crats conjured up to mind fuck us.

 

I like this guy.

 

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I do not like this guy.

[Lone Eagle 839]

922r? What's that?

[DrThunder88 912]

Interesting pictures! They inspired a few thought on the subject. First, as Jim says, my Bulgarian buttstock and US-made Kvar buttstock were roughly identical in thickness and of exactly the same design. Assuming both are made of the same glass-filled Nylon material, there's not much practical benefit in choosing one over the other. Second, also as Jim alluded, I've not heard any horror stories on Kvar or Bulgarian stocks breaking willy-nilly, so they are most likely designed to the minimum specs for durability over a wide, WIDE range of conditions. It's hard to see in the photo, but, if the Mossberg stock is of the traditional design, there would be a significant risk of a standard style shotgun stock breaking compared to an AK stock.

[Brian M1 50]

Interesting pictures! They inspired a few thought on the subject. First, as Jim says, my Bulgarian buttstock and US-made Kvar buttstock were roughly identical in thickness and of exactly the same design. Assuming both are made of the same glass-filled Nylon material, there's not much practical benefit in choosing one over the other. Second, also as Jim alluded, I've not heard any horror stories on Kvar or Bulgarian stocks breaking willy-nilly, so they are most likely designed to the minimum specs for durability over a wide, WIDE range of conditions. It's hard to see in the photo, but, if the Mossberg stock is of the traditional design, there would be a significant risk of a standard style shotgun stock breaking compared to an AK stock.

I'll agree that a .223 doesn't need a very strong stock, but there's no excuse for cheaping out with the manufacter of it. I'll also agree that shotgun's probably benifit from a sturdier stock (that was a factory Mossberg stock in the photo, but my Remington 870 stock is the same quality build), but remember... people are using these Kvar stocks on S12's also (scary thought). The Kvar may not have many complaints, and may get the job done, but I'm very dissapointed in the quality of it. IMO, it's junk. Sadly there isn't much choice for synthetic AK stocks however. I guess it's the lesser of the evils... but that's not saying much.

[Agent Lemon 157]

When I thread the barrels on my Saiga AKMs, I put on the stock. Then with the stock between my legs I start threading. Holds up fine. I'd like to see the tapco t6 stock hold up, that rattly piece of shit lol.

 

p.s. I have no experience with the foreign made polymer stocks, but if they're the same thickness and good enough to arm an army, then it should be good enough for us, eh?

[mancat 2,368]

K-VAR stocks are straight plastic, while Bulgarian/Russian surplus "plum" stocks are polyamide resin. They are strong as shit. I doubt that most owners will ever break a K-VAR stock in normal use, but I have no doubt in my mind about which is stronger.

 

In the mid 80s, Ford actually made an experimental engine using Torlon, a patented polyamide resin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine

Edited June 19, 2012 by mancat

[Agent Lemon 157]

Oh yeah? Well I use mine to open doors and kill spiders on the wall. It still holds up fine.

 

ETA: but really though, unless you're going for a period correct build, then wood furniture is the way to go. So sexy... Does not stop the heat as well though .

Edited June 19, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[DrThunder88 912]

Interesting pictures! They inspired a few thought on the subject. First, as Jim says, my Bulgarian buttstock and US-made Kvar buttstock were roughly identical in thickness and of exactly the same design. Assuming both are made of the same glass-filled Nylon material, there's not much practical benefit in choosing one over the other. Second, also as Jim alluded, I've not heard any horror stories on Kvar or Bulgarian stocks breaking willy-nilly, so they are most likely designed to the minimum specs for durability over a wide, WIDE range of conditions. It's hard to see in the photo, but, if the Mossberg stock is of the traditional design, there would be a significant risk of a standard style shotgun stock breaking compared to an AK stock.

I'll agree that a .223 doesn't need a very strong stock, but there's no excuse for cheaping out with the manufacter of it. I'll also agree that shotgun's probably benifit from a sturdier stock (that was a factory Mossberg stock in the photo, but my Remington 870 stock is the same quality build), but remember... people are using these Kvar stocks on S12's also (scary thought). The Kvar may not have many complaints, and may get the job done, but I'm very dissapointed in the quality of it. IMO, it's junk. Sadly there isn't much choice for synthetic AK stocks however. I guess it's the lesser of the evils... but that's not saying much.

What I mean is that if a traditional-style shotgun stock breaks at the wrist (I imagine the most likely place for a break) at a most inopportune time, you may still be left with a stock screw to hold onto. If an AK stock breaks at the wrist, you'll still be left with pistol grip to hold onto. In other words, a break on a traditional stock is more likely to make the gun unusable in a crisis than an AK stock.

 

K-VAR stocks are straight plastic, while Bulgarian/Russian surplus "plum" stocks are polyamide resin. They are strong as shit. I doubt that most owners will ever break a K-VAR stock in normal use, but I have no doubt in my mind about which is stronger.

 

In the mid 80s, Ford actually made an experimental engine using Torlon, a patented polyamide resin. http://en.wikipedia....tomotive_engine

I don't mean to burst your plastic bubble, but "nylon" is nearly synonymous with "polyamide resin". I may have capitalized "Nylon" out of habit for talking about the DuPont trademarked polyamide resin. There are variants, of course, with different properties, but if they don't mention what variety of polyamide resin they're using, I think it's safest to assume it's the cheapest. If it was made of Adamantamide, which could deflect bullets and pop a steamroller's tires, I feel like that would be a major selling point.

 

Oh, and "plastic", if it means anything distinguishing in the world of polymer manufacturing, means "thermoplastic", which polyamide definitely is. Another definition includes the other major class of polymers when it comes to gun parts: thermoset resins, usually colloquially referred to as "Bakelite". Once again, sort of a "lead ship" mentality even though there are variations within the class. The nylon material in stocks may be a composite, which is to say there is a filler of fiberglass reinforcement in the plastic matrix, but I'd have to see some documented specs to draw conclusions about whose plastic is crap and whose plastic is purple gold. Usually the percentage of glass to polymer in nylon is ~30% in high-strength varieties of the stuff.

 

Now I don't know about either K-var's wares or Bulgarian plums, but I am reasonably sure Tapco uses glass-reinforced Nylon in their products. I assume the other two do as well, and I'm unwilling to imagine some huge difference in material properties just because some guys on the Internet refer to the brand they don't like as "plastic" and the brand they do like as "polyamide polymer resin".

Edited June 19, 2012 by DrThunder88

[yard 1]

I hate to resurrect this and is a little off topic, but I just bought a k-var buttstock for my unconverted s-12. I want a buttstock for hunting and have a tapco t6 now. Some reasons are: the tapco single-point mount is right behind the saiga sight mount and I have to remove the sling mount to slide on the sight rail. the other issue is that the t6 is wobbly and I don't like how it carries or feels to shoot. It hasn't arrived yet, but I see now that the stock doesn't curve down like a factory unconverted stock would and I only got a buttstock with no pistol grip. Does this stock need a pistol grip mount in order to be complete or should I reach the trigger without one? I know this is something I should have figured out before buying.. Any thoughts or better yet, a picture of an unconverted saiga with one on it would help. Thanks!

[gunfun 3,931]

You are going to need to move the trigger group if you want to use that KVar stock. You will also need to either install a PG nut or use a trigger guard that has a built in pg nut. This is a job that just about anyone can do. Do not be intimidated.

 

I believe there are adapter blocks that would allow you to do a similar arangement to your t6, but you will have a much better gun if you do a proper pistol grip conversion for legal, ergonomic, and aesthetic reasons. Please read the sticky about why you should convert.

 

It also costs about the same or even less to do it right as it costs to use a hokey setup like the t6. You will be much happier with your gun in the long run if you restore your trigger to the proper location.

[gunfun 3,931]

PM-d to avoid threadjack

[ZombieApoc1911 0]

Hey Guys,

 

I am trying to remove and replace my Saiga 12 K-Var Stock.

 

Replacing with an ATI Strikeforce Elite.

 

I have removed the two TOP screws. I don't see a third screw on the bottom of the K-Var stock...how do you get this thing off?

 

Thanks in advance!

[mancat 2,368]

Give it a kiss and ask nicely...

 

Usually the stock will come out just by wiggling it up and down while pulling. If not, tap it out from the receiver using a plastic or wooden dowel & hammer.

[jimdigriz 580]

Hey Guys,

 

I am trying to remove and replace my Saiga 12 K-Var Stock.

 

Replacing with an ATI Strikeforce Elite.

 

I have removed the two TOP screws. I don't see a third screw on the bottom of the K-Var stock...how do you get this thing off?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Saiga receivers typically have a hole in the bottom next to the end of the buttstock where you can stick a screwdriver and use as a lever to loosen up the stock. At least, the rifles do. Not sure about the shotguns.