22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Maybe I could have and maybe I couldnt, but goddamnit I would have tried. This sums it up for me. My guess is that if he received return fire, he would have ran, or went for cover, giving people time to escape. He was suited up for a battle, but didn't have the guts to bang it out with police when they showed up. So I assume a citizen in the theater actually taking shots at him would have made him reevaluate his priorities. Doesn't really matter, though. That chain of theaters has a no-carry policy, preventing law-abiding folks from carrying in there. See how well those policies work out for you if you follow the law? I'm not advocating breaking the law..........but concealed is concealed. Unless you're going through a metal detector........ . 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 The thing is, it was dark in the theater so how do you determine whether or not he is wearing armor or a load bearing vest to take this so called "perfect shot"? Like I said, hits on soft armor are still going to hurt him. Hits on a ballistic helmet are still going to have an effect. It's not like the guy is sitting in a concrete bunker looking out a 3 inch slit. If a controlled pair to the torso doesn't stop the threat, follow up to the head. That's why most reputable trainers will have you shooting failure drills. Carry enough ammo so you can stay in the fight as well. It still blows my mind some people will CCW something like a LCP with nothing but the magazine in the pistol. Good thoughts. Hits are still hits. That said, has anyone noticed the sheer number of Chairborne Rangers on this thread? Everyone can Armchair Quarterback this scenerio but if you train correctly, you will not be making that split second decision on whether or not to take that 25 yard shot on the 3 inches of unprotected human tissue. Instead, you will instinctively shoot until the threat stops...or stops you. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WhiskeyMinion 300 Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Even if you didn't hit him, a little cover fire goes a long way. Might have saved a few more people Quote Link to post Share on other sites
454496 71 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 But would a sub-compact 45 acp at that range knock him down? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've been through the CS chamber and caught it out in the feild. With out a mask, it sucks. Even with a mask, it's a PITA. Even just smoke obscures vision and impedes breathing in a confined space. You may have had little more than a flash to shoot at and scurrying innocents between you and it. This is the kind of environment that only SWAT officiers and Combat Vets may have seen regularly(possibly some paintballers and airsofters). Few others train for such and fewer more even think about what to do in such a case. As for what I would have done, that depends alot on where I was from the shooter, if I was armed(I don't go where I'm not allowed, so I wait for the disk to come out alot), and if my loved ones are with me. If I were to be sheilding my loved ones retreat and close enough to positvely ID the perp, I'd rather rush him than stand there or take it in the back. Even if I went down I would hope that my life spared others. If I were to far too make a difference, I'd be out of there and helping others out in the process. I'm former Mil, LE and EMS we have an auto-response to move towards trouble or at least get others out of the way of it. Thinking aobut what we would do is just a start, experiance it if you can. Here's some good advice..... http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=24077 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've been through the CS chamber and caught it out in the feild. With out a mask, it sucks. Even with a mask, it's a PITA. Even just smoke obscures vision and impedes breathing in a confined space. You may have had little more than a flash to shoot at and scurrying innocents between you and it. This is the kind of environment that only SWAT officiers and Combat Vets may have seen regularly(possibly some paintballers and airsofters). Few others train for such and fewer more even think about what to do in such a case. This would have made it even more difficult for him to get a bead on where the return fire was coming from. He would have had a chance with the shotty but shooting an AR with a Promask on is really a PITA. But would a sub-compact 45 acp at that range knock him down? More than likely yes, especially without a trauma plate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I totally agree with MT Predator on this. There are no guarantees when you decide to shoot back at an aggressor, but that doesn't mean you can't effectively help save lives (including your own) by defending yourself. The sting of a painball is under 20 foot pounds of energy and can easily leave welts and bruises. A 9mm will hit with more than 15 times that amount of energy at the point of impact of the body armor stopping it, however the body armor will stop it from causing the tissue damage that leads to blood loss and it won't likely disrupt the central nervous system or vital organs. It will still hurt and unless you take hits all the time and test body armor for a living, you won't likely know if the body armor actually stopped it until you check yourself. Our animal 'predator' and chase' instincts can be redirected from a blinded focus intent on pursuing the 'prey' or in this case the victims at the theater to a self-safety and preservation instinct if the predator is challenged with a serious physical retaliation. Sharks have been documented letting go of the prey if they get their eyes gouged and sometimes their nose punched hard enough. It is the same reason why a warning shot or making yourself larger and louder can often scare away a threatening bear, cat or dog. I have a buddy who was in South America photographing architecture when he saw a guy eyeing him and his camera as he passed. He noticed the man following him intently and then running after him, so he turned around and ran at the man following him with a loud yell which startled the man enough to turn and run the other way. In a dark theater, even hearing loud gunshots that weren't his (not to mention the pain and sting if any connected) could have been enough to get him to switch mindsets long enough for others to disarm him or for yourself and others to escape to safety. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MightyLordRay 94 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Giving that man an immediate threat to contend with would have been an ideal distraction for everyone else to hightail it out of there. If I was going to die, then it's better me, than a higher number of people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NM0 586 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Until presented the situation who knows. I like to think an armed citizen could get lucky and significantly reduce the rate of causalities, regardless what happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 id like to think that if somebody was packin heat, than it wouldnt have turned out as bad as it did. to me, its just more proof that unarmed people dont stand a chance in hell. this is the very reason TO carry. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VR762Shooter 838 Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) In a dark theater, even hearing loud gunshots that weren't his (not to mention the pain and sting if any connected) could have been enough to get him to switch mindsets long enough for others to disarm him or for yourself and others to escape to safety. This is what I was thinking. It doesn't sound like he had some over the top training or anything. He was a student with little training and likely only connected so many shots because of how full the theatre was. I think if one or more people had even attempted return fire he would have curled up in the corner Edited July 31, 2012 by VR6Shooter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm not saying don't take the shot if you have it. I'm saying be VERY aware of your situation. If you hit someone else by mistake, you become the criminal. In a CS situation its a bitch to see anything, let alone focus on a target. However, even then a few shots in the floor would likely have caused this guy to bolt and run. But there is a reason these "massacres" only happen in "Gun Free Zones". So going on about what we would do if armed is a moot point. What would you so if unarmed? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MightyLordRay 94 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 What would you so if unarmed? That's a good point. If I was unarmed I certainly wouldn't try to be the hero. Forgive me for sounding selfish, or inconsiderate, but most likely I would have my wife with me. I might possibly have friends, and other family with me too. I would be looking out for the safety of those around me, especially my friends and family. I hate the idea of low crawling with my face on the disgusting floor of a movie theater, but if that is what the others and I had to do, then it's gonna' get done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 For one, the authorities haven't confirmed he used CS. His apartment was booby trapped with fireworks and flammable liquids so it leads me to believe he threw some kind of firework type smoke grenades. Carrying in a "Gun Free" zone like a theater will result in a Trespass charge instead of a criminal charge if caught. Big deal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 For one, the authorities haven't confirmed he used CS. His apartment was booby trapped with fireworks and flammable liquids so it leads me to believe he threw some kind of firework type smoke grenades. Carrying in a "Gun Free" zone like a theater will result in a Trespass charge instead of a criminal charge if caught. Big deal. that's what is weirding me out, concrete details have yet to be spoken for on a whole. Just really odd. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 For one, the authorities haven't confirmed he used CS. His apartment was booby trapped with fireworks and flammable liquids so it leads me to believe he threw some kind of firework type smoke grenades. Carrying in a "Gun Free" zone like a theater will result in a Trespass charge instead of a criminal charge if caught. Big deal. that's what is weirding me out, concrete details have yet to be spoken for on a whole. Just really odd. Nobody has their story straight yet to spur on the conspiracy theorists. Until they get that right, they won't release the details............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 it just seemed like after Columbine things were a lot quicker to be released and not shrouded so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I believe they are keeping details sealed as not to give this fucktard any glory and to prevent copy cats from using the same M.O. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 To late MT, some tard down your way drank a little to much and went to see the dark knight. Atleast this time he did not have a gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 To late MT, some tard down your way drank a little to much and went to see the dark knight. Atleast this time he did not have a gun. que? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/01/13067471-man-allegedly-yells-this-is-it-at-batman-showing-panic-ensues?lite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 wow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) http://usnews.nbcnew...nic-ensues?lite Well at least the guy isn't creepy looking! Edited August 1, 2012 by BuffetDestroyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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