pharmbob 0 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I have recently acquired 2 converted Saiga 12's with the trigger group moved forward, and some minor modifications (polishing, etc). Both of these guns have the bolt hold open left out, despite there being a "slot" for one to reside in from the original sporting configuration. Is this common, or a good reason why I should not reinstall one from after market parts I find online (like CSS)? Seems like it would be helpful to have, unless it effects the reliability or action of the gun. Thanks in advance for any replies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Do you mean the factory left out the BHO? Or you mean you left it out in the conversion? Either way, there should be no problem installing one on a converted gun. I bought my gun already converted and installed the CSS BHO. It was fairly simple, but took a while because you have to grind down the hammer axis to make room for the BHO to use the same pin. It works nicely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Uwishucould158 4 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Problly jus forgot i would put the css one in Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pharmbob 0 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Do you mean the factory left out the BHO? I meant it was left out (BHO) in the conversion from 2 different individuals. I wasn't sure if this was a trend or just coincidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I'd rather not have one anyways, its just an extra part that can add failure to the system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acutedeath 2 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) If the hammer is ground to provide clearance for the BHO, you may consider putting a BHO in place to limit side-to-side travel of the hammer, perhaps? Edited August 16, 2012 by acutedeath Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I find it VERY useful since I can't load a mag without the bolt being locked back. I'd imagine it would be a little more difficult if I had to hold it open by hand. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I'd rather not have one anyways, its just an extra part that can add failure to the system. If it is installed properly there's no way it can fail...they put them in at the factory, so these guns were designed to have them... I find it VERY useful since I can't load a mag without the bolt being locked back. I'd imagine it would be a little more difficult if I had to hold it open by hand. I had to do this before I installed mine. It was a hassle, but not unbearable once you got used to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mac66 12 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) My 2001 era 12 did not come with a bolt hold open. I cut a notch in the safety lever, pull the bolt back and slide the notch up to capture it and hold it back. Photo is from when I converted it. Did the same thing with my other non-saiga AK rifles. Edited August 16, 2012 by mac66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 They suck! leave it out and notch the safety lever. to use as a bolt hold open. Like a krebs lever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Anyone have any REASONS why they don't like the BHOs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I can't see any negatives with it; they don't get in the way of operating the gun at all. If you don't like it you don't have to use it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Anyone have any REASONS why they don't like the BHOs? They can be a pain in the ass to reinstall. Some people complain of the lever being in the way of their trigger finger. They do jam up, even on factory unconverted guns. They are an extra part to cause a malfunction. A simple search of this site will yield a metric shit ton of threads concerning the issue. When they do, they lock up the entire action making it a complete pain in the ass to fix. I personally never had any issues (other then installation being a headache) with reusing the BHO on my 132 or 109. Lots of people like them, lots of people hate'em. Edited August 16, 2012 by Mullet Man 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I find it VERY useful since I can't load a mag without the bolt being locked back. I'd imagine it would be a little more difficult if I had to hold it open by hand. You should have someone like Pauly work on your bolt. It is awesome being able to load on a closed bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 I find it VERY useful since I can't load a mag without the bolt being locked back. I'd imagine it would be a little more difficult if I had to hold it open by hand. You should have someone like Pauly work on your bolt. It is awesome being able to load on a closed bolt. That is next on my list! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 You should have someone like Pauly work on your bolt. It is awesome being able to load on a closed bolt. I have been able to load full mags in both my Saiga 12's on closed bolts with no modification whatsoever....from day one. Having said that, I love the BHO's and use them whenever I handle the weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
45Bretired 19 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 The only issue I've had ,well seen was when my wife tried to hold high to shoot it her trigger finger would push the BHO up under recoil and lock the bolt back. Take into consideration she is 5'1" and 108lbs and even with low power stuff it still knocks her around. I've tried and tried to teach her to shoulder it differently to no avail. She is fast and accurate with a handgun and carbine but some people I guess just ain't meant to use shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 You should have someone like Pauly work on your bolt. It is awesome being able to load on a closed bolt. I have been able to load full mags in both my Saiga 12's on closed bolts with no modification whatsoever....from day one. How is that? I thought you couldn't do this unless the bolt was modified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheDarkHorse 216 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I dont know Kenny....It's always come easy with mine and I have wondered why so many others have issues. It must be the technique because nothing has ever been modified on either of my 12's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sattv4u 3 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Mine is not installed also, i just picked up this converted S-12 yesterday also the spring to retaine the triger group pins is missing to ??? WTF ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
im_n2_vws 28 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I just re-installed my BHO. I used the dental floss method(youtube). Wasn't that hard.Only problem I had was the hole on the bho from CSS was a little too tight. I couldn't get it to go in. Took it apart and trial fit the pin throught the hole in the lever it was too small of a hole. A drill and a few seconds later it was together. Edited August 17, 2012 by im_n2_vws Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pharmbob 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks for this suggestion I just re-installed my BHO. I used the dental floss method(youtube). Wasn't that hard.Only problem I had was the hole on the bho from CSS was a little too tight. I couldn't get it to go in. Took it apart and trial fit the pin throught the hole in the lever it was too small of a hole. A drill and a few seconds later it was together. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I dont know Kenny....It's always come easy with mine and I have wondered why so many others have issues. It must be the technique because nothing has ever been modified on either of my 12's. Interesting. Both of yours were purchased new, correct? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FOURBUX 22 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I dont know Kenny....It's always come easy with mine and I have wondered why so many others have issues. It must be the technique because nothing has ever been modified on either of my 12's. If you look up Gunfun's profile, he has a video (edit: in his signature) on how to load a full magazine on a closed bolt without modifications. It is technique - you may do it without realizing it or something. It's basically angling the magazine so that the bolt pushes down the round as you lock the magazine in. I've tried it and it works, but it takes some finesse. I dented a few top rounds beyond use before I got it to work. Edited August 17, 2012 by FOURBUX 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 ^ Awesome, I'm going to try that when I get home and practice it lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 95 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Anyone can load a full mag on a closed bolt, it just takes some practice and doing it slowly to start so you can see how you need to press it in. Mods like Pauly's def help out, but it's not impossible. I'm sure the Russians don't call "timeout" so they can lock the action open, they learn to load it just like any other AK they use 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I didn't watch the video yet but tried it when I got home and figured it out pretty quickly. Thank you gentlemen, you have changed my life. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 They now use magwells. And when I opened my box it looked nothing like what the Spetznas use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 95 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Right, but they still loaded full mags on closed bolts when they used the S12, and someday in the future all the old men shooting clays will be using stock imported saiga's and the whippersnappers will be using VEPR 12. And they will mumble about the rails and the hinged dust covers and how they used to walk to school up hill both ways in bare feet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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