SaigaKen 338 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Very happy with my Tromix No FTE's Love the Moly Resin Coating Pauly's bolt/trigger polish is like butter Matches well with my Tromix S308 (had the .410 and 7.62 Saigas Moly Resin too) The auto gas and the hinged rail on the VEPR 12 is cool, but do I really need to spend another grand when my Tromix is sooo sweet Which would you rather have? (if you could only have 1) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Different animals of the same family. You need one of each. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Vepr 12 or the SGL12, all day long. I dont want to come off insulting but I will say that most of my opinion has to do with how I think an ak style rifle/shotgun should look like. lets just say im not going to put jeep doors on a lambo and call it good. I hate to say it but I guess im somewhat of a purist when it comes to aks. I dont mind the occasional AR stock on the ak but mixing and matching other parts is taking away from its look imo. So if you have different tastes and/or dont care what it looks like then you'll be fine. Im sure all those parts work great, thats not in question. I want as many as possible OEM parts including trigger guard, pistol grip, muzzle comps and hiders, mags, hand guards, and internals. Only way to go about that is to SBS/SBR it. Otherwise you fall under 922r and all those us made parts are necessary. to each his own. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'll actually have some Red Russian wood on mine someday.......but a long way off What I have now is economical (but not installed by Tromix) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
45Bretired 19 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Love them both. I'm a big fan of magwells but thats because of the way I play. I already have an Auto Plugged 100% reliable S12 so all I need is a magwell and I'm good. I'm not dogging the hinged rail but I like my optics mounted mid gun like exactly where the rear sight is on my S12 so the hinge wouldn't do me any good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rnemhrd 165 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 One or the other Tromix. That gun has been gone through with a fine tooth comb, and I like the sights better. You can add a mag well not that I would. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Not a magwell guy either Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 I'd go for the Molot. However tiny wins for me, so if you are putting an 8" tromix up against a full size molot, I'd take the dainty little gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Russian 1 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 I'd have to see what accessories are available. It doesnt sound like much for the new arrivals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaKen 338 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I'd go for the Molot. However tiny wins for me, so if you are putting an 8" tromix up against a full size molot, I'd take the dainty little gun. I debated over and over if I was going to have mine shortened to an 8". I still want to use my S12 for hunting and that isnt feasible with the limited ammo's and less accuracy. Also thought about buying another S12 and have it shortened to an 8", then I saw Tonys build list......Feb 1st 2015 .....that helped my decision Edited September 16, 2012 by Saiga Power Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I'd go for the Molot. However tiny wins for me, so if you are putting an 8" tromix up against a full size molot, I'd take the dainty little gun. I'd get the VEPR.... and chop it to 8". Then it would be gorgeous.... and dainty I'm a purist, for the most part. The Tromix builds stray too far from what I feel a Kalashnikov should look like. Lots of people love them though. To each his own.... Edited September 16, 2012 by evlblkwpnz 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Evl- phrased the question as either/or, so I answered in kind. Of course a stubby Vepr 12 would rock. The rail space obviates the need to get a titan on it or adding some heavy grip for a VFG, so that balances out the increased weight in a little gun. I'd go for the Molot. However tiny wins for me, so if you are putting an 8" tromix up against a full size molot, I'd take the dainty little gun. I debated over and over if I was going to have mine shortened to an 8". I still want to use my S12 for hunting and that isnt feasible with the limited ammo's and less accuracy. Also thought about buying another S12 and have it shortened to an 8", then I saw Tonys build list......Feb 1st 2015 .....that helped my decision Well you should get a shorty then. Length has nothing at all to do with accuracy aside from making you more aware of your aim. That is controlled by choke, and the design of your ammo, especially the shot cup. As has been discussed and more importantly - measured- length has very little to do with velocity either. 24 " to 8" made at most a 200FPS difference, and almost none with most loads. 12" showed very little difference in velocity at all with the majority of loads.Length mattered for this reason aa hundred years ago, but powders have improved since then and reach full burn much sooner. On paper, the veper wins in almost every category of features and quality, however one of the most bragged on features seems like a minus to me. Namely, the thicker side walls. That is unnecessary weight. How do I know it is unneccessary?-- Easy, there are no reported problems of receiver stress on Saiga shotguns. Remember folks, a design is perfect when there is nothing more to add or remove. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Evl- phrased the question as either/or, so I answered in kind. Of course a stubby Vepr 12 would rock. The rail space obviates the need to get a titan on it or adding some heavy grip for a VFG, so that balances out the increased weight in a little gun. I'd go for the Molot. However tiny wins for me, so if you are putting an 8" tromix up against a full size molot, I'd take the dainty little gun. I debated over and over if I was going to have mine shortened to an 8". I still want to use my S12 for hunting and that isnt feasible with the limited ammo's and less accuracy. Also thought about buying another S12 and have it shortened to an 8", then I saw Tonys build list......Feb 1st 2015 .....that helped my decision Well you should get a shorty then. Length has nothing at all to do with accuracy aside from making you more aware of your aim. That is controlled by choke, and the design of your ammo, especially the shot cup. As has been discussed and more importantly - measured- length has very little to do with velocity either. 24 " to 8" made at most a 200FPS difference, and almost none with most loads. 12" showed very little difference in velocity at all with the majority of loads.Length mattered for this reason aa hundred years ago, but powders have improved since then and reach full burn much sooner. On paper, the veper wins in almost every category of features and quality, however one of the most bragged on features seems like a minus to me. Namely, the thicker side walls. That is unnecessary weight. How do I know it is unneccessary?-- Easy, there are no reported problems of receiver stress on Saiga shotguns. Remember folks, a design is perfect when there is nothing more to add or remove. I'll offset that thick receiver weight by losing a lot of barrel and op rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Pate 478 Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Magazine commonality would be my #1 issue. Also not a fan of the non-adjustable gas systems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Magazine commonality would be my #1 issue. Also not a fan of the non-adjustable gas systems. Thats why Go.....tac47 invented the Auto Plug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Magazine commonality would be my #1 issue. Also not a fan of the non-adjustable gas systems. I'm usually of this mindset, but WOW.... I really want one of these. I will have one.... and a lot of mags for it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Russian 1 Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Price is a consideration as well. Will these shoot right out of the box? No gas issues? No FTF's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Price is a consideration as well. Will these shoot right out of the box? No gas issues? No FTF's? All that matters to me is.... it will run when I am done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Russian 1 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm interested to hear what its like. Please share. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm interested to hear what its like. Please share. I will likely shoot some videos of one in action in factory form when they come in. It won't be long before one undergoes surgery. They are hurting for an AK100. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 If I were to spend the same amount of time customizing my Saiga 12 from the factory to my VEPR 12 from the factory, it's a no brainer of the VEPR 12 all the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Here is my assessment in another thread. I have both and will say out of the box it is a totally different expirence. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/81468-vepr-12-vs-custom-saiga-12-and-the-winner-is/ You should have both but out of the box it's no contest. For an extra. 400 cash you get everything you need on one of these shotguns. And if you added it all to an s12 it would cost you more like 1500-2000 for an s12 with these features. Vepr 12 wins. Edited November 17, 2012 by rogers 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Tromix is much better quality. Vepr QC blows. That being said, I like the Magwell, LRBHO and hopefully Crossbolt safeties some Veprs offer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Tromix is much better quality. Vepr QC blows. That being said, I like the Magwell, LRBHO and hopefully Crossbolt safeties some Veprs offer. It must be bliss.... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Tromix's most basic package for a non-SBS is $395, it includes a few parts, but mostly you are buying QC that Izhmash might have overlookeda name and a warranty. Since the VEPR only really needs parts for compliance reasons and starts with higher QC off the bat, How much extra QC do you think a professional builder like Tromix would deliver for $395? Their SBS service on the Saiga costs $1260+ I am not saying they would do the job for the same money, but If I am dropping nearly $1500 for service and a stamp on a shotgun, putting another $400 into a better gun to begin with might be in order. Also, some of that $1260 goes into adding features that are stock on the Vepr, such as better sights. It seems to me that the cost could go down proportionately for the service. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) I am sorry, but the statement that VEPR starts off with higher QC off the bat is not true in my experience. It's an urban legend. I have three VEPRs and each of them lacks proper QC. All crooked rails, crooked sights on two. Not sure how even the most basic firearm QC could miss things like this. Their QC blows. Edited November 18, 2012 by ec4321 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 I wish I could elaborate on precisely why, but I would take a VEPR 12 without thinking twice about it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SwissyJim 117 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 I *love* my Tromix... but, not familiar with other varieties and it's my first AK platform weapon. Plus meeting the man himself, Tony, was worth it's weight in gold, platinum and silver trolled together. Based on the Tromix S12, I am adding more AK stuff to my safe, and thats what it's all about , right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Magazine commonality would be my #1 issue. Also not a fan of the non-adjustable gas systems. I'm usually of this mindset, but WOW.... I really want one of these. I will have one.... and a lot of mags for it Not a problem. Just use the MD-20 drums that you already have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9n9xdgaH2M&feature=youtu.be 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) I am sorry, but the statement that VEPR starts off with higher QC off the bat is not true in my experience. It's an urban legend. I have three VEPRs and each of them lacks proper QC. All crooked rails, crooked sights on two. Not sure how even the most basic firearm QC could miss things like this. Their QC blows. Just curious, do you have an s 12? if so how did it run out of the box? most of the time they won't come close to reliably running out of the box with ALL AMMO. the vepr 12 on the other hand so far has nothing but good reviews out of the box, with just minor break in problems that smooth out with use after about 100 rounds by most peoples experience. I would call that better QC. Nothing is perfect. except maybe a Tromix. lol j/k I do have to admit though that as far as QC goes Tromix builds are probably better than a factory vepr 12. and they should be. but they still lack a lot of features that the vepr 12 offers Edited November 18, 2012 by rogers 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.