Swat mags And Magwell Now Avaiable?

[TacticalResponse 0]

ozone 00 added this url to my post. does this mean that the swat mag and magwell are now available?

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/viewitem.asp?item=39732749

Edited November 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[mopeman 0]

Who the hell wants a "decorative" mag well! I want a real functioning one.

[TacticalResponse 0]

I don't think he knew how to put it into english properly. You have to remember that the Russian language cannot always be translated into english the way that we would like it to be and vise versa. He probably used one of those Russian to English computer translations and just thought that it was correct. Regardless, I'm going to do some research this week on this mag and magwell and try to find the truth out about it, even if It means having to call Russia. I'll find out if this is a language problem or if this is a real functioning magwell.

Edited November 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[topmaul 42]

sounds like a bad translation to me.

[PvtPyle 0]

And when you buy from russeller you very well may never see it.

[TacticalResponse 0]

If it really does exist maybe we can get it through Finland or Britain instead of russeller.

Edited November 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[shaneman153a 39]

Hmm.... I dunno, but did anyone click the link showing that it's been re-listed? Anyone wanna front me the 400 it will cost to win the auction, I'll tell you how well it works, and might even post pics......

[kmoore 3]

I don't think he knew how to put it into english properly. You have to remember that the Russian language cannot always be translated into english the way that we would like it to be and vise versa. He probably used one of those Russian to English computer translations and just thought that it was correct. Regardless, I'm going to do some research this week on this mag and magwell and try to find the truth out about it, even if It means having to call Russia. I'll find out if this is a language problem or if this is a real functioning magwell.

 

I work with a Russian who is also an avid shooter. Let me know if you'd like help in the translation. Maybe a conference call, or an email in russian?

[ozone_00 3]

looks like the auctions only last one day, just search "saiga 12" for the relist. When I first saw this auction, I figured it was a normal mag with a fake magwell attached, then as I looked at it, it didn't appear to have the normal rock-in tabs on it. Could be the real deal. I just about creamed in my jeans over the pic of the S-12 at the bottom.

[TacticalResponse 0]

Thanks for the offer Kmoore, if I have any problems I will send you a message. how do you guys think that the magwell in the picture attaches to the receiver?

Edited November 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[G O B 3,516]

"Built in decorative replacement" Looks like this is a mag made to LOOK like it has a magwell extension.

"Decorative" not functional.

 

G O B

[ditchdigger 0]

It looks like the back is pinned on the same place the mag release lever is now. As for the front I can't tell for sure. Bad ass though. Did it say if the well was polymer or metal? Also what retains/releases the mag after it's installed? Sorry to edit again but in the picture of it on the gun the factory mag release is still there but it looks photo-shopped. I think it would be removed if it was actually installed.

Edited November 7, 2005 by ditchdigger

[ditchdigger 0]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Nov 6 2005, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Built in decorative replacement" Looks like this is a mag made to LOOK like it has a magwell extension.

"Decorative" not functional.

 

G O B

If it is purely decorative then how do you lock it in? The tabs on the well don't look even close to standard mag "lugs" and th mag itself doesent appear to have them at all. Looks like the real deal to me but like I said before I can't tell how the new mag is retained/released after the well is on the gun?

[TacticalResponse 0]

ditchdigger I think that the only way that we can get to the bottom of this is to contact someone in Russia. I'm going to do a little investigating this coming week and attempt to find out the facts for everyone on this forum. I'll post the results of my investigation.

 

My investigation reveals that Izhmash is not producing them or at least so they claim. They say that they are to large of a company to be involved in such a very small matter. well thats the way it was said to me. However, I would like to take a stroll through the factory that does their injection molding. Maybe someone decided to make a few Rubles.

Edited November 7, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[pedal2alloy 206]

More pictures added to the auction. It looks like it is the real SWAT magwell and made of the same material as the mag. And it does pin on thru the mag release pivot pin at the rear and is rivetted in the front.

 

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40205249

 

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

You are gonna fugg that follower up even if you could install it.

 

I have exploded views of both Swat, and Us import models.....

 

Good Luck.

 

Oh yeah. And our normal mags wont work in the swat set-up. Diff Follower

 

Bolts, and carriers are different.

 

Check angle/rake of follower on Swat model....

 

whatever...i'm done trying to explain........

 

the magwell.....yeah I like just that.

 

But you gotta cut our mag catches off.....

 

but butcher that for use with home-made detents on "our mags".............

 

W/E

[pedal2alloy 206]

Isn't it possible that the follower on the new style mag comes up higher to activate the last round BHO in the swat model? Or does anyone know if it has such a BHO?

 

If so, then to use the new mag and megwell, you would also have to add the BHO parts. But changing out the bolt and carrier - would that be necessary too?

[TacticalResponse 0]

Isn't it possible that the follower on the new style mag comes up higher to activate the last round BHO in the swat model? Or does anyone know if it has such a BHO?

 

If so, then to use the new mag and megwell, you would also have to add the BHO parts. But changing out the bolt and carrier - would that be necessary too?

 

 

 

Yes, the Saiga-12 Swat has a last round bolt hold open. It's designed and built for fast tactical reloads. To change out the bolt and bolt carrier? we would need the original parts so that we could machine our own.

Edited November 15, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[ditchdigger 0]

A last round BHO would be sweet, but just going from the "rock and lock" mag insertion to a magwell that allows direct insertion and release would be a huge improvement. Not that you can't become proficient at mag changes with the existing design, I think changes could be faster with less practice. I also believe inserting a fully loaded mag on a closed bolt would be simplified if you could push straight in and lock it in place. I still don't understand how the mag is retained and released with the model in the pics? Am I missing something? Been away for a spell.

[TacticalResponse 0]

A last round BHO would be sweet, but just going from the "rock and lock" mag insertion to a magwell that allows direct insertion and release would be a huge improvement. Not that you can't become proficient at mag changes with the existing design, I think changes could be faster with less practice. I also believe inserting a fully loaded mag on a closed bolt would be simplified if you could push straight in and lock it in place. I still don't understand how the mag is retained and released with the model in the pics? Am I missing something? Been away for a spell.

 

 

 

I know of someone that does not belong to this forum that is working on a last round bolt hold open for the S 12. He also has similar products for AK's. When he's ready to sell them I'll ask him to post it on this forum. By the way have you've noticed ruseller is still advertising his Swat mag and magwell on gunbroker? He says that these are Izhmash made, yet Izhmash tells me that their not making them? Little mystery here.

Edited November 19, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[ditchdigger 0]

Ruseller, help us out here. You are a member here right? Is it made by Izhmash or what? If it is why do they deny it? If not then who made it? Also is the retention/release mechanism so simple that only a retard like me needs it pointed out? If so I apologize. Mystery indeed TacRes.

[TacticalResponse 0]

Ruseller, help us out here. You are a member here right? Is it made by Izhmash or what? If it is why do they deny it? If not then who made it? Also is the retention/release mechanism so simple that only a retard like me needs it pointed out? If so I apologize. Mystery indeed TacRes.

 

 

 

A mystery it is. It would be great if we were going to start having a steady flow of various Swat parts into the U.S. The question about the Swat mag not working in a regular S 12 however is a major problem. Do we need an entirely different bolt or can the current bolt be modified.

Edited November 20, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[pedal2alloy 206]

The fact that the follower of the swat mag comes up higher does not indicate a different feed angle, presumably it is like that to activate the BHO.

 

Regarding the question of how the swat mag locks in, it is with the same lever as a regular S12 because you can see the slot in the magwell for it and the same pivot point is used.

 

My guess is that you could use the magwell and the swat mag in a regular S12, the only thing missing being the BHO. If the bolt carrier is different, it would be to accomodate the BHO and not have anything to do with the mag or follower.

 

As far as the bolt is concerned, why would they need to make any changes to that?

[TacticalResponse 0]

The fact that the follower of the swat mag comes up higher does not indicate a different feed angle, presumably it is like that to activate the BHO.

 

Regarding the question of how the swat mag locks in, it is with the same lever as a regular S12 because you can see the slot in the magwell for it and the same pivot point is used.

 

My guess is that you could use the magwell and the swat mag in a regular S12, the only thing missing being the BHO. If the bolt carrier is different, it would be to accomodate the BHO and not have anything to do with the mag or follower.

 

As far as the bolt is concerned, why would they need to make any changes to that?

 

 

Several people on the board have said that the bolt is different. We just need a Swat 12 to settle these issues. Maybe someone from Finland can tell us.

Edited November 20, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[inparidel 4]

You are gonna fugg that follower up even if you could install it.

 

I have exploded views of both Swat, and Us import models.....

 

Where can I access theose exploded views? The SWAT has a last round BHO in addition the the manual BHO. The mah has a tit on the back of the follower that appears to set the BHO. I need to see how all that is done. Please direct me to a url, or post the schematic.

[ForGreatJustice 1]

Whoa whoa, could the presence of both a raised follower and a manual BHO on the Swat model indicate that the BHO is not truly automatic?

 

Think about it. It would be easy enough to have a follower that prevented forward movement of the bolt, and then engage the manual BHO before swapping mags. However, if you failed to do this, and dropped the mag, not only would it come out "hard", but your bolt would drop as soon as you did (if the manual BHO were not activated).

 

Sound farfetched?

 

 

You are gonna fugg that follower up even if you could install it.

 

I have exploded views of both Swat, and Us import models.....

 

Where can I access theose exploded views? The SWAT has a last round BHO in addition the the manual BHO. The mah has a tit on the back of the follower that appears to set the BHO. I need to see how all that is done. Please direct me to a url, or post the schematic.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

For exploded views of Swat model S-12.

 

 

Buy the Izhmash catalog from Urals on eBay.........

 

 

Asking questions about this Swat model would be hand-in-hand, as hard to determine as the Bizon 9mm model weapons, and the AN-94 Assault Rifles.....

 

You cannot get these in semi-auto(civilian form)....

 

But I salute your taste

 

 

 

Good Luck in your efforts. If I find any info in my catalogs that might help. I will post/scan it.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=8718

[DaGroaner 2]

I wonder if the magwell and mag would still accomodate 3" shells. I could live with 2-3/4" only but would rather not.

 

I like the arrangement in the diagram much better since it appears to use the standard mags. They call it a mag "guide" and it appears to me to work by simply hooking the front lug on the mag and levering the mag into place. I would give my left nut for that mag guide, gas block, tube, rear sight and hinged cover.

Edited December 4, 2005 by DaGroaner

[pedal2alloy 206]

Whoa whoa, could the presence of both a raised follower and a manual BHO on the Swat model indicate that the BHO is not truly automatic?

 

Think about it. It would be easy enough to have a follower that prevented forward movement of the bolt, and then engage the manual BHO before swapping mags. However, if you failed to do this, and dropped the mag, not only would it come out "hard", but your bolt would drop as soon as you did (if the manual BHO were not activated).

 

Sound farfetched?

 

The follower wouldn't be able stop the bolt more than a few times withoug breaking. It must trip some linkage that stops the bolt.

 

Also, with regard to the manual and automatic BHO's on the same gun, it would not be unusual to have them both because there are times that you would want to lock the bolt back manually, independant of what you've got in the mag.