Bear killed with AK-74

[gunfun 3,931]

 

2484 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Just a wee bit more than the .44 Magnums, eh?

 

 

so your saying you have to be within 3 feet of the bear for a shotgun to be deadly............I'll pass.

 

 

Joke?

 

Most standard fosters are designed to splat on deer. Almost every gel or other simlar test as well as numerous pictures removed from game show that they break into a doughnut. That's why I would prefer breneke style, hexolit or dixie type. Full vellocity barrier penetrating stuff should be as good too, but reduced recoil LE would not be optimal. I haven't seen a terminal balistic test of a lyman 525 type slug but I would really like to.

 

I water drop my lee slugs, and my friend picked one up that was shot into a dirt bank at around 1300 FPS. It looked unharmed.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

now I'm just gonna throw this one out there........hows about a 357 SuperMag. Brown bear stopping power?...yay or ney

Edited August 2, 2013 by SHOTGUN MESIAH

[gunfun 3,931]

isn't that a safari load? If so, pretty much everything designed for African Dangerous Game is going to be adequate for anything in North America. There are tons of things out there that could work well.

 

I'd prefer something I can find or make inexpensively with several choices of firearm. So If I were ever to move back up there, I'd probably be keeping an S12 by each door / in vehicles, and would look for a light carbine in 444 marlin or 45-70 for running around.

 

For the rest of us, keeping a couple heavy shells on hand for our 30-06 while we are expecting to use lighter bullets while hunting is probably the most sensible.

 

Gota love SS on a boat. We have that problem in Gulf also, damn salt and humidity.

With all the shady goings on coming from the south it doesnt make sense to go out unarmed.

 

No bears to speak of though just a crap load of gators and the occasional crazy Cajun.

 

I kid cher

 

Gota love SS on a boat. We have that problem in Gulf also, damn salt and humidity.

With all the shady goings on coming from the south it doesnt make sense to go out unarmed.

 

No bears to speak of though just a crap load of gators and the occasional crazy Cajun.

 

I kid cher

 

The sad thing is that the last shotguns that were really stainless were made in the early eighties. Now they just put in a few stainless parts into a gun and call it "stainless marine" model. They will do for the guy who throws it in the boat for the weekend and oils it up when he gets home, but they just will not last living on a boat. My father's old 1300 stainless marine shotgun crumbled to dust. The fools made the receiver out of aluminum, then copper, then chrome plated it. (hint aluminum + copper+ an electorlyte = a battery= massive galvanic corrosion the first time that chrome gets a scratch.= blisters flaking and gun cancer) They put little bits of blued steel to turn orange all throughout every aspect of the gun. Remmington and Mossberg don't make true SS guns anymore either. I've looked.

So far the best choice I have found is old Rem stainless or S&W police stainless IIRC model # was model 300. I've read that those were problematic, but my uncle's is the nicest pump gun I have used and it is still smooth after over 30 years of abuse in salt water environment. It has some discoloration, but nothing affecting function. Maybe he just got a good one. Either way that is what I am looking for to equip my dad for pests, bears, and psychos.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Good points, weekend trips are far from continuous living on salt water.

 

Outside of religiously cleaning and oiling I am almost completely stumped.

 

Wonder if cathodic protection could be simply done?

A very small aluminum bar riveted or even welded to the steel receiver as the sacrificial metal perhaps?

 

Only thing Ive got.

[netpackrat 566]

Another thought is you could buy a used standard pump, and just oil the shit out of it. Keep it on the boat for a couple (or more) years, and sell it off before it has the chance to get bad, and just replace it with another used pump. A bit of a pain, but maybe no less than hunting down another all stainless gun. Or maybe instead of rotating it out every couple years, send it off to one of the places that does nitrocarburizing. That's the same metal treatment Glocks get, and they don't seem to rust, ever.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Couldn't you keep the gun in one of the "storage bags" when you're not using it?

They're treated to prevent rust and corrosion, and work well from the reviews I've heard of them.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/812618/z-corr-firearm-storage-bag-55-long-gun

[breid1970 327]

You saw a rabbit shot in its head five times? What were you shooting it with. Ive shot many rabbits in my 42 years and plenty in the head. Not much left after a single shot to the head let alone 4 follow up shots.

[Ronin38 2,117]

 

2484 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.

Just a wee bit more than the .44 Magnums, eh?

 

 

so your saying you have to be within 3 feet of the bear for a shotgun to be deadly............I'll pass.

 

Huh?! Where'd you get 3' as a limit for a shotgun slug? I was remarking on the fact that ~2500 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy is a heckuvalot more than ~1600 from the .44 Mag. out of the same length barrel!

 

Once I got my red-dot sight adjusted, I get fairly decent accuracy out to 100 yds. with Brenneke slugs! 50 yds. is not a problem, at least not for something bear-sized.

Not saying I guarantee I could shoot that well with 600 lbs. of raging fur n' teeth charging at me...

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

I never guessed a 12 gauge shotgun would be the unanimous choice by so many to down a brown bear. But living in NE, we don't see many bears around here.

the most dangerous thing we have around here are mountain lions, but those cats are so elusive and mostly night creatures your chance of running into one of them are next to zero.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I did not know it but the disk drive in our computers uses cathodic protection.

It is active rather than passive but it must resist corrosion a firearm would not even notice.

 

You've got me onto something now.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10KObAQFmlY

[netpackrat 566]

I never guessed a 12 gauge shotgun would be the unanimous choice by so many to down a brown bear. But living in NE, we don't see many bears around here.

the most dangerous thing we have around here are mountain lions, but those cats are so elusive and mostly night creatures your chance of running into one of them are next to zero.

 

I wouldn't say it is the unanimous choice, rather, the majority of people who carry a gun for bear protection will acknowledge its effectiveness, even if it wouldn't be their first choice. For example, I would rather have my Marlin, but I do not feel poorly armed with a slug loaded shotgun.

[gunfun 3,931]

You saw a rabbit shot in its head five times? What were you shooting it with. Ive shot many rabbits in my 42 years and plenty in the head. Not much left after a single shot to the head let alone 4 follow up shots.

 

You saw a rabbit shot in its head five times? What were you shooting it with. Ive shot many rabbits in my 42 years and plenty in the head. Not much left after a single shot to the head let alone 4 follow up shots.

 

 

22lrs And that was actually my point. They would do all that with most of their heads missing. One was shot in the back of the head and was doing all of that, while chewing on its own brain. kinda horrible and fascinating at the same time. I am sure they were dead with the first shot, but reflexes kept most of the run and hide responses going.

[dashowdy 141]

Anyone got any ideas of skull thickness on a adult male brown bear, I have seen a water buffaloes and I was not very impressed as far as thickness, seems like most handgun rounds could penetrate the skull easy, I know uncle ted took one with a 10mm in some hunting show.

[psl sniper 963]

I think a water dropped hard cast slug out of a 12 gauge would be more than effective. my cousin took down a bear with a compound bow last year.

granted it was a small black bear in a tree ..................................lol. it made excelent burgers.

[Ronin38 2,117]

Yeah, good bowhunters have taken every game animal you can think of in North America. So, it can definitely work, if you know what you're doing.

 

Me? No way!

[SwissyJim 117]

My comment about 'idiot' is the article said he yelled 'Hey Bear' when he saw it, but no mention of saying it BEFORE he saw it. Had he been yelling it the whole hike, the bear most likely would not have been seen. Walking to within sight THEN yelling it constitutes surprising the bear and the prelude to either a mauling or bear killing. If he was walking quietly and only said hey bear upon seeing the bear, then he is truly an idiot. The point is you have to get the bears attention BEFORE you and it see one another, to give him a chance to leave. If he decides to stay at that point... well, sorry Mr. Bear you're going down in a hail of lead.

 

Dunno about forums, but a few of the gun shops I visit are talking about it, and while people say he was good/lucky/right/whatever to shoot, general consensus I seem to be getting is agreement to the above - had he made more noise and not been alone, it may not have happened. The thing is no one knows but him if he said anything prior. If any interviews are given, I'll be curious to hear what he says and if he is bragging it up or more subdued.

 

 

I did read that, not sure what is up with him calling the guy an idiot, when he did basically what the poster suggested in making the bear aware of his presence. Whether the guy yelled "hey bear" or said it in a normal speaking voice seems to be a stupid thing to hang the guy on when in either case, he got the bear's attention as intended. The problem was the bear's reaction to that. But calling names seems to be the norm for some of you around here. Seems like I can't disagree with you in any thread without your resorting to name calling.

 

I'm talking about this incident on a couple other forums, and at neither place has anybody felt the need to resort to calling the other posters names.

 

 

Quiet possibly can you read the entire thread before you post? Here's a member from Alaska who's opinion I respect.

 

most hunting guides use either 12ga slugs or 45/70. Wild West Guns has made a name for themselves up here with their 45/70 guide model, which will break down and be easier to transport via the smaller planes. Me, I pack a .44mag and common sense. (but I did get into the Saia12 for use near the cabin I use every year)

 

The thing that irks me about the shooting here was the guy just then said 'hey bear' when he saw it? idiot. In over 40 years up here, and I spend a LOT of time in the woods, I have yet to have a bear encounter. And not for the lack of opportunity - I've stepped in a number of still steaming piles of bear shit. But I'm not out walking silently either... (and no fugging bear bells!) I either whistle, or I have my dogs with me and I'm constantly yelling at them. Best form of bear deterrence is make yourself known to the bears and you will not see them. Even alone, if the area looks overgrown and low vis, I make noise. Talk, whistle, yell HEY BEAR and so on.Unless they want to eat you (which is VERY rare) then they are fair game. Most attacks are when someone startles a bear, or gets too close to cubs. My guess is this guy startled this one, and the old boar was gonna take a chunk outta his ass.

 

couple of years ago some guy whacked a brown bear at the Russian River campground with an AK47, and while he said he was charged, he bragged later somewhere he was hoping to run into it and that's why he had his AK. Some jokers just go looking for trouble.

 

You've wasted enough of my time today will all your assumptions packrat. The last word is yours.

 

 

[XD45 7,124]

How can you tell grizzly bear scat? It smells like pepper spray and it has bells in it.

 

Brown bear country? S12 with 3" Brenneke slugs.

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

On the road catching up while the wife drives. Just in Montana camping and hiking. We carry Bear spray and my 1911. The gun is more two legged varmits, but I think 9 Corbon 45's would slow a bear if needed. We also make noise when we hike.yeah we find steaming poo, and the occasional crash of brush heading away from us, but we have never needed the spray or pistol. I have no desire to kill a bear.

[psl sniper 963]

Fucking pussies.

 

Be like Chuck Norris and kill it with your fists.

 

And a round house to the head.

Or maybe i could use my "bear " hands! lol. i kill me.

[unclejake 428]

I would love to own a AK chambered in .44 magnum!

 

The Thompson comes to mind.

 

I don't like .44 Magnum in my S&W 629. I find it almost uncontrollable and the gun is heavy to carry.

I LOVE 44 mag in my Colt Anaconda! Heavy side arm, but easy on the hands and extremely accurate. Easier to shoot than some .38s I have shot. I agree with you on the S/W 629 though. A beast to fire.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I think a water dropped hard cast slug out of a 12 gauge would be more than effective. my cousin took down a bear with a compound bow last year.

granted it was a small black bear in a tree ..................................lol. it made excelent burgers.

My brother kills a Black Bear (big ones, he is picky), every year with a bow. And your point is?

[psl sniper 963]

 

I think a water dropped hard cast slug out of a 12 gauge would be more than effective. my cousin took down a bear with a compound bow last year.

granted it was a small black bear in a tree ..................................lol. it made excelent burgers.

 

My brother kills a Black Bear (big ones, he is picky), every year with a bow. And your point is?

that its doable.......thought that was pretty obvious........

[gunfun 3,931]

Well, water dropped Lee slugs seem to be more durable than the commercial fosters. Perhaps the drive key helps with strength. I've got one that was shot into a dirt bank last Sunday and it could almost be reloaded. It just got squished about 2 thou out of round acording to the calipers. It looks almost perfect to the eye. And that is just water dropped pure lead. With some tin and antimony to aprox 18 BHN I think they would be very strong projectile.

 

Commercial fosters I have recovered were always very deformed. This also matches what I have seen from others.

 

Obviously Breneke are preferred by most people for good reason, and I would rather carry them than my home cast. At the same time, I think home made slugs could be very adequate.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

The more I see on the ballistics tests of the Breneke slugs the more I am convinced.

The magnum and penetration rounds are impressive as hell against hardened targets.

 

Not sure even a type III vest would hold up.

[Ronin38 2,117]

It might not penetrate the vest, but the wearer would still have broken ribs, and probably internal injuries. Not sure how a vest + trauma plate would hold up to a magnum slug. I don't want to be the one to test it, either.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Not intentionally for sure.

 

Most ceramic plates are rated for five rounds of 30-06 AP IIRC. (Always thought that as being overly optimistic)

 

But this isnt 30-06 and Im guessing the ceramic would be done after one round, just a guess haven't seen any tests.

 

Point being of course it would do for bear.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I Brenneke.

[bruce soderholm 4]

Hevi-shot makes 12G bear rounds in both 00 12 pellet buck and 1 1/4oz sabot slugs.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Heres a few Brenneke slugs I was able to dig out of the bank today. I only shot five today, and the other 3 were too far into the bank to get to without a shovel.

 

[netpackrat 566]

 

My comment about 'idiot' is the article said he yelled 'Hey Bear' when he saw it, but no mention of saying it BEFORE he saw it. Had he been yelling it the whole hike, the bear most likely would not have been seen. Walking to within sight THEN yelling it constitutes surprising the bear and the prelude to either a mauling or bear killing. If he was walking quietly and only said hey bear upon seeing the bear, then he is truly an idiot. The point is you have to get the bears attention BEFORE you and it see one another, to give him a chance to leave. If he decides to stay at that point... well, sorry Mr. Bear you're going down in a hail of lead.

 

Dunno about forums, but a few of the gun shops I visit are talking about it, and while people say he was good/lucky/right/whatever to shoot, general consensus I seem to be getting is agreement to the above - had he made more noise and not been alone, it may not have happened. The thing is no one knows but him if he said anything prior. If any interviews are given, I'll be curious to hear what he says and if he is bragging it up or more subdued.

 

Any time a bear is killed and self defense is claimed you are going to have people trying to second guess it, or argue that it could have been avoided. But as you were kind of getting at in your post above, the real vocal/serious criticism isn't going to come from our side. At the end of the day, putting aside differences of opinion on avoidance or caliber choice, nearly all who are actually from here will agree that was a good shoot.

 

And with all due regard, hiking for miles down the trail yelling "hey bear" the whole time isn't realistic, nor is it actually done, in my experience. Most of us will intentionally make some noise and/or yell when we reach a brushy area, or one with limited visibility, but otherwise you are going to yell yourself hoarse by the time you are done hiking. And that's just a recommended practice for hiking or fishing. Nobody expects a hunter (no matter what you are hunting) to stomp around the woods making noise to scare off the bears, because it scares everything else, too. Yet nobody would call a hunter an idiot for killing a bear in self defense under otherwise identical circumstances.

 

What the guy actually claims to have done seems pretty reasonable to me, given that 99% of bears will run away as soon as they become aware of a human presence.