8" or 12"?

[TronJohn 1]

Ok I have been wanting to send my unconverted Saiga off to Tromix for 4-5 years now & with the NFA proposed changes, it's now or never.

 

For the longest time I was going to go with the 8" and was completely sold on it.  Looks awesome & functions perfectly when Tromix does it's magick.

 

But I've seen Tony & others say THEY prefer a 12" because the fireball & heat is just too much on an 8" and that it burns your arm hair off?

 

But then I see a ton of people with a 8" so I don't know what to do.

 

They really made me back pedal on the 8" idea and really consider the 12" - which is still really short. 

 

I just want to make sure I get what I want & am happy with it.  I REALLY wanted an 8" but I also don't want it so damn crazy that it's a bitch to shoot and not good for home defense or SHTF.

 

I plan on adding a 45* foregrip to help with the recoil and getting around an MD20 drum easier than a vertical grip, it's really the fireball & heat I'm concerned with.

 

Also any idea why it's $250 more to get an S17 in 12" vs the standard 8"?

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 9, 2014 by TronJohn

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Can't you paper it as an 8" and have the work done as a 12" then have the option to shorten later on without more paperwork, if you wanted?

[kwesi 39]

I have the 8" S17 and have not had a single issue with hair burning. Go with what you've always wanted.

[Eric Pate 478]

I have the 8" S17 and have not had a single issue with hair burning. Go with what you've always wanted.

Ditto. I've used several different muzzle devices and still have all my arm hair. The fireball is quite impressive but I don't have a problem with that. Part of the attraction really.

 

The advantage of the 12" gun is that it has 4 more inches of barrel. This raises velocity only slightly, and has a minor but measurable effect on patterning.

The advantage of the 8" gun is that its 4" shorter.  Up to you which is preferable but I will say that I have no discomfort with my 8" gun.

 

Please note that with the 3" chamber, you actually have an effective barrel length of five inches!  

[joelrod47 373]

 

10" TROMIX gives you the very best !

[beerasaurus 9]

This isn't what your asking, but here's an outside opinion anyways.

 

4" of barrel will not dramatically effect your ability to operate (i.e. it will not make it noticeably easier to move through doorways, transition to and from the weapon, etc.), but it will have a significant impact on the effectiveness of the weapon in terms of patterning, barrel-travel for rifled slugs, etc.  

 

If it were me, I would rather have a little more length and a more effective killing machine, than just that much shorter a gun.  There is a point where shrinking the barrel of a PDW becomes counter-productive.

 

But that's just just how I think.  From a purely coolness-factor, shorter is probably better.

[TronJohn 1]

They all look cool to me, but I am very much function over form for a home defense or SHTF weapon. 

 

So you think the 12" will be a much more effective setup overall?  I agree there isn't much difference between 8" or 12" when sweeping hallways, but I like to keep things as short as possible.

 

With the 12" the gas ports don't even need messed with do they?

[Eric Pate 478]

4" of barrel will not dramatically effect your ability to operate (i.e. it will not make it noticeably easier to move through doorways, transition to and from the weapon, etc.), but it will have a significant impact on the effectiveness of the weapon in terms of patterning, barrel-travel for rifled slugs, etc.  

 

If it were me, I would rather have a little more length and a more effective killing machine, than just that much shorter a gun.  There is a point where shrinking the barrel of a PDW becomes counter-productive.

 

That's funny, I've kinda got the exact opposite sentiment.

 

I'm not trying to belittle your opinion by any means but, IMHO 4" shorter does make a noticeable difference in handling and has a negligible effect on patterning and velocity. That's just me though, of course YMMV.

 

If you're that torn you could always just split the diff and go 10" like Jeaux suggests.

[psl sniper 963]

12"

[jamesavery22 54]

12"

 

TonyRumore had a thread that showed 28" - 12" has negligible velocity loss.

 

There's a super old thread on another forum where a guy took a single barrel shotgun and cut it down to something nuts like 4" 1" at a time.  At each length he measured velocity.  Past 12" the velocity started to drop off rapidly.

 

So for ballistics alone, 12".

[KevenW 4]

12"

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

cut mine down to 13" inches.......lucky 13

[saltydecimator 482]

i love 13... gotta cz 75 with s/n 7513.... i dig it. and an ak with 3113...folks also say i look like jim carey. but i think its more of my demeanor than looks.... enough about me though, lets talk about you!!!

 

ahhah ya i vote for 13 as well

[sunnybean 939]

I have a 8" and a 12.5". If I were to do it again, I would go 13+" so that the gas system would not need shortening. Once you're behind the gun, you won't notice a difference between 8" and 13" other than your hair won't blow back as much.

[TronJohn 1]

Well isn't it a more reliable gun when the gas system is shortened?  I'm having Tromix do the conversion so that's all that needs to be said on that.

 

I'm not opposed to going with a 13" to not modify the gas system, but I swear I could remember asking Tony about that and he advised against it & suggested re-doing the gas system.

 

Does anyone have any pictures or know the difference between the 8" & 12" spread & velocity @ 25 & 50 yards?  I would imagine either length is accurate and deadly out to this range?  I'd probably keep it loaded with buck shot vs slugs, although I'm not opposed to being able to have slug ability.

 

Keep in mind that my main objective is set up perfect for HD, so a big giant fireball of the 8" might not be as desierable as what comes out of the 12"  - what do you guys think when considering this the #1 consideration for barrel length.  Would there be quite a difference in fireball between 8" & 12" in an enclosed home defensive situation?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

It will lay down a hell of a fireball at either length, especially with 3" loads. This was at 8" with Rem Express 3" 00 Buck....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Emp4whCJkA

 

 

 

I'm not sure it would matter after the first shot was fired, assuming it was on target.

 

Spread can vary wildly with different loads. Rem Express 3" 00 Buck yields a pattern about 22-24" wide at 7 yards in my 6.5". Federal LE Premium 2-2/4" 00 Buck (has Flight Control wad/cup) yields a fist sized pattern at the same distance in the same weapon. The Federal is impressive ammo and the fireball isn't all that big.

 

As far as the perfect setup for HD, I went 6.5" because it allows me to aim through a closed door into whatever part of a room that I want to while opening the door and I never have to move or lower the barrel to clear the inward opening door. If I hear something and can tell where it is in a room, I want to aim there before I open the door. I couldn't do that as easily when it was at 8" and I was concerned that I may not be able to do it well if I had just woke up. The shorter the barrel, the closer someone has to be to get a hand on the weapon while rounding corners and going through doorways. Everyone has their own goals and needs though. Those were mine and 6.5" was what it took to meet them.