Remington 700 Trigger Recall

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

After years of back & forth allegations, claims of cover-up, injuries/deaths, lawsuits & limited SN# specific recalls, Remington has finally & only when they know they're going to lose a Class Action lawsuit, finally recalled every Rem 700... That is 7.85 Million rifles. 

Still they refuse to admit there is a problem, but will fix them anyways...  Yeah right.

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102236497

Edited December 6, 2014 by ChileRelleno

[sccritterkiller 473]

I have 4 of these rifles in different calibers...I have already had the issues addressed on my guns by a GS over 15 years ago...and no I don't have the receipts...this is going to be interesting.

Edited December 6, 2014 by sccritterkiller

[Sim_Player 1,939]

So the mother had the rifle pointed at her son, when she disengauged the safety.

 

"Among the deaths was nine-year-old Gus Barber of Montana, killed during a family hunting trip in 2000 when his mother switched off the safety on her Remington 700 rifle and the gun went off."

 

I like the rifle but, never bought one.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Sim_Player

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

In a nutshell...  Design Flaw

Some 700s trigger group's hammers have a habit of falling on primers...  Without anything or anyone squeezing the trigger.

 

 

<p>Remington to replace 7.85 million rifle triggers</p> <p>CNBC&#039;s Scott Cohn reports

 

Remington will replace millions of Model 700 rifle triggers.

 

Rich Barber&#039;s son Gus Barber died in a 2000 hunting accident, and he says Remington should be commended for its effort.</p>

 

America's oldest gun manufacturer, Remington, has agreed to replace millions of triggers in its most popular product—the Model 700 rifle.

The company has been riddled for years with claims the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled, often with deadly results.

A 2010 CNBC documentary, "Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation," explored allegations that for decades the company covered up a design defect, which Remington continues to deny. But now, under a nationwide settlement filed Friday in a federal court in Missouri, the company is agreeing to replace the triggers in about 7.85 million rifles.

While insisting its action is not a recall of the iconic gun, Remington says in a statement that it is agreeing to make the changes "to avoid the uncertainties and expense of protracted litigation."

The settlement involves a class action suit brought in 2013 by Ian Pollard of Concordia, Missouri, who claimed his Remington 700 rifle fired on multiple occasions without the trigger being pulled. The agreement also settles a similar class action case in Washington state. The Pollard suit accused Remington and its owners of negligence, breach of warranty, unfair and deceptive trade practices, and fraudulent concealment—some of it involving the company's formal response to the 2010 CNBC documentary.

At least two dozen deaths and more than 100 serious injuries have been linked to inadvertent discharges of Remington 700 series rifles.

In court filings, Remington denied the allegations, calling them "inaccurate, misleading, (and) taken out of context." And last year, a judge dismissed several of the claims, including negligence and fraudulent concealment. But by this July, the parties announced they were working out details of a "nationwide class settlement" involving the controversial gun.

Under the settlement, which still must be approved by a judge, Remington has agreed to retrofit the rifles in question at no cost to the owner. Many users had new trigger mechanisms installed on their own, and Remington will reimburse them as part of the settlement. For guns that cannot be retrofitted, the company plans to offer vouchers for Remington products.

The settlement covers more than a dozen models, specifically the Model 700, Seven, Sportsman 78, 673, 710, 715, 770, 600, 660, XP-100, 721, 722 and 725.

Remington's 700 series, which began with the Model 721 shortly after World War II, has been wildly popular not only with hunters and target shooters, but also with law enforcement and the U.S. military. The gun is prized for its accuracy and smooth operation, thanks to a unique trigger mechanism patented in the 1940s by Remington engineer Merle "Mike" Walker.

But the CNBC investigation revealed that even before the gun went on the market, Walker himself had discovered a potential problem with the trigger he designed. In a 1946 memo, he warned of a "theoretical unsafe condition" involving the gun's safety—the mechanism that's supposed to keep the rifle from firing accidentally.

Subsequent memos during the testing process noted guns could be made to fire simply by switching off the safety or operating the bolt. "This situation can be very dangerous from a safety and functional point of view," said a 1947 inspection report.

See the full CNBC documentary, "Remington Under Fire: A CNBC Investigation"

CNBC

In a national settlement involving one of America's most popular guns, Remington will replace millions of triggers on its popular Model 700 rifle.

While Walker contended the issue had to do with the manufacturing process and not his design, critics including firearms experts and plaintiffs' attorneys have argued that the same aspects of the design that allow the gun to fire so smoothly also make it possible for internal parts of the trigger to become misaligned, rendering the gun unsafe. Specifically, they cite a tiny part called a "trigger connector," which they say can become clogged with rust or debris. Under the settlement, Remington plans to replace the triggers with "connectorless" mechanisms—a similar fix to one Walker himself proposed in 1948.

Walker died in 2013 at age 101. But he told CNBC in 2010 that he believed Remington's rejection of his proposal back then "had something to do with cost." A 1948 internal analysis obtained by CNBC estimated the cost of the change to be 5 ½ cents per gun.

Remington has always maintained the guns are safe, and that the documents obtained by CNBC are merely evidence of the company's attention to quality. The company claimed every accident was the result of user error.

"The Model 700, including its trigger mechanism, has been free of any defect since it was first produced," Remington told CNBC in 2010. "And, despite any careless reporting to the contrary, the gun's use by millions of Americans has proven it to be a safe, trusted and reliable rifle."

Customer complaints

But CNBC uncovered thousands of customer complaints and more than 75 lawsuits alleging the gun is prone to firing without the trigger being pulled, sometimes with deadly results. Many of the lawsuits were settled out of court, typically with a provision that the terms be kept confidential.

Among the deaths was nine-year-old Gus Barber of Montana, killed during a family hunting trip in 2000 when his mother switched off the safety on her Remington 700 rifle and the gun went off.

Since then, Gus' father, Rich Barber, has been on what he calls a "crusade" to learn the truth about the rifle.

"I went to the funeral home and looked Gus right square in the eye and said, 'Son, it ends here and now,' " Barber told CNBC in 2010. "I promised him I'd never be bought off and I'd never quit until I've effected change."

Since then, Barber has compiled a huge trove of evidence, including thousands of Remington internal documents.

He sued Remington, and in a settlement the company agreed to make design changes in the popular rifle, and to offer to modify—for a fee—older versions of the gun that required the user to switch off the safety in order to unload the gun. But the company refused to launch a full-blown recall, and in what Barber contends is a violation of the agreement, continued to sell some models with the controversial Walker trigger.

Under the proposed settlement, Remington will offer to replace the Walker triggers with the replacement mechanism developed following the settlement with Barber. That trigger is known as the X-Mark Pro, but it has had issues of its own. Earlier this year, Remington recalled thousands of X-Mark Pro models manufactured since 2006, after determining that "excess bonding agent used in the assembly process" could cause the guns to unintentionally discharge. That voluntary recall will continue as part of the class action settlement.

Barber is not a party in the latest class action cases, but has served as a paid consultant to the plaintiffs' attorneys.

CNBC

Rich Barber has been on a “crusade” to learn more about the Remington 700 rifle after his 9-year-old son Gus was killed during a 2000 family hunting trip.

"I went to the funeral home and looked Gus right square in the eye and said, 'Son, it ends here and now.'" -Rich Barber in 2010 on the death of his son Gus.

"I never wanted there to be more Gus Barbers," he told CNBC Friday.

"I'm humbled by the whole thing," he said regarding the latest developments. "For all the people who have come and gone in my life, I'm jealous. They got their lives back. It was my intent to save people's lives. I can't walk away as long as someone's life hangs in the balance."

Barber noted Remington's corporate structure has changed repeatedly over the years, and he is pleased the company has finally agreed to fix the guns.

"I'm going to commend them for that. It's not in my nature to attack my adversary when they do the right thing. I commend them. People hear Remington and they automatically think 'oldest gun manufacturer,' but people don't know the company has changed many, many times. I feel more sympathy to this new company."

 

This is not the first time Remington has considered recalling the popular rifle. CNBC found that at least twice—in 1970 and 1994—company officials discussed the idea but ultimately rejected it. Again, the decisions had to do with the cost, which had risen dramatically from Mike Walker's original 5 ½ cents a gun, and continues to go up today.

In a report to investors last month, Remington's privately-held parent company, Remington Outdoors, previously known as The Freedom Group, revealed it had set aside $29.7 million in what the company called a "Model 700 settlement reserve."

 

The company's owner, Cerberus Capital Management, announced plans to exit the gun business in 2012 following the deadly school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, but has yet to find a buyer.

 

[Sim_Player 1,939]

Edited December 6, 2014 by Sim_Player

[Long Shot 1,287]

Never heard about this issue before.

 

Something smells rotten about the whole thing.

[Inspector 12 37]

I have four remington 700 series rifles. Three of the 700 Sendero model and one 700 classic in 7X57 mauser. Never had a problem with any of them and don't know that I will pay attention to any recalls should they track me down.

 

I also have a Springfield XDs 45 that has a recall out on it. Again, since I haven't had any of the supposed problems the recall is supposed to address I just don't feel the need to have the gun messed with.

 

One question though regarding the tragedies which led to both the Remington and Springfield recalls. What if the individual holding the gun had practiced traditional safe gun handling practices of never pointing said gun at anything you don't plan to shoot?? While the mother certainly did not plan to shoot her son, non the less the gun was pointed at him somehow....

 

Kind of hard to get too excited about problems that exist in limited scenarios. Guess I am a what is rather than what if kinda guy.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Yes'sir, Golden Rules violations, i.e. User Errors.

These rifles had to have a round chambered, be cocked and pointed at an unintended target.

That said, to simply disengage a safety & have a discharge, something is amiss.

Add Remington's history of Confidential Out of Court Settlements.

Yeah, something smells rotten alright.  Thankfully, they've finally knuckled under.

 

 

 

I've known about the problems, but I still have been wanting a 700 BDL in .308win, as it is the only model with irons.

They never chambered that caliber in that model, only a few done in their Custom Shop.

Those rifles command a pretty penny.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Still wont be buying anything from Remington except ammo, still pissed at what they did to Marlin.

 

About damned time they fixed that trigger, that has been around for years.

[sccritterkiller 473]

If you dig into the circumstances of the story the mother was unloading the gun after hunting trip when the gun discharged and the round went thru a horse trailer and hit her son on the other side. So while it wasn't the best gun saftey being practiced its not like she was pointing it at her son while unloading it which is what it sounds like in the story.

[Deadeye 325]

I would like to send my 243 in. I have never had a problem but the saifty is really soft. Easy to accidently bump to the fire position.

[G O B 3,516]

Many years ago, I did some research on what 30-06 to buy. I got an 03-A3. Never liked the 700 series trigger/safety.

[Voltia 375]

My old man and I have 3 700s and use them as deer rifles. They have had the safeties moved to off and unloaded a thousand times or

so total over 30 years. I heard you have to something odd to make this behavior happen, can someone explain?

 

Chile, recommend you go 30-06 in BDL. Superior to .308 and readily available.

[XD45 7,124]

I can't verify this but I heard that if you pull the trigger with the safety on and then take the safety off it can discharge.

 

Remington is going to take a financial kidney punch on this one and deservedly so.

 

It's just another reminder that muzzle control is critical. 

 

99% of firearms accidents have at least one human error contribution.  Guns are mechanical devices subject to a lot of stress and can fail even if there isn't a design flaw. 

[Voltia 375]

Darth, you may be quite right. I THINK I heard that you hold the safety halfway on, pull the trigger, put the safety on,

then, when safety is released, it fires. Obviously, no one in their right mind would do such a thing.

 

More stuff.

 

http://www.uplandjournal.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard312a/ikonboard.cgi?act=Print;f=1;t=70203

[storm6490 2,768]

At least something was done about it. The family from Montana feels settled now and that's good. I'm all or muzzle discipline but, that mom was in the wrong not knowing what was on the other side of the horse trailer but still.... A fuckin' safety has to work. The 700 can be very bitch at times. The rifle will not fire sometimes and then, any movement of the bolt or safety will make the rifle fire. There is also the really spooky ones that fire immediately after the rifle is moved from safe to fire. That's 8 up.

 

I have to give credit to the dad who stuck with it. The company needed to address the issue and he didn't take a payoff like the rest of the people injured while using the 700 have.

 

Sucks that a company puts other gun mfg's necks out on the chopping block for further litigation against the industry. Do the right thing and get your gear in the clear. If it sucks, fix it.

[Voltia 375]

These things are rarely black and white, as anyone in a technical area knows. For millions of rifles to have a statistically insignificant

amount of this behavior, and not much more, there has to be a specific set of circumstances for it to have happened so few times.

 

If it takes extreme dried oil and dirt to freeze parts in place and not return, is that on the manufacturer or the operator?

How about if it takes pressing the trigger while holding the safety halfway down to make it fire when the safety is removed? Manufacturer or operator?

Depending on what you read, it apparently takes one or the other or both of those to make this happen.

 

Personally, I know of the impossibility to idiot proof a design when one desires a reasonable price. I don't think that so much emphasis should

be placed on avoiding personal responsibility and blaming the manufacturer. I know this person is trying to rid themselves of their demons,

but they had a gun pointed at their child. Many guns have no safeties, what of it? I won't be participating in any recall, because the new

triggers will probably suck dick. A gun is a tool, use it at your risk.

[VR762Shooter 838]

If even the designer of the trigger system stated it had a problem and offered a solution that wasn't accepted I'd say that is on Remington. You can't blame the consumer for an issue once you know it exists and choose to blow it off. I think the number of fatal incidents may be low but the overall number of reported incidents is much higher, thus their change in stance. Yes proper safety protocol should always be used, and in some cases wasn't completely, but we know those aren't the only incidence to occur. Remington has just been paying everyone off that ran into a reportable issue. Good on that father even if some responsibility falls on the mother

[jmzzl 146]

I have one of the rifles, with a serial number that falls into the affected recall rifles. It has an X-Mark Pro trigger, that I myself adjusted for a lighter trigger pull. I have never had an issue with it. After I had adjusted it, I loaded it with a snap cap, slammed the butt on the ground, hit the butt and stock with a rubber mallet. tried to pull the trigger with the safety on, anything you can think off. Never had a problem. It doesn't have an extremely high round count but it's not all that low either. A lot of people don't like the X-Mark Pro anyways, and end up replacing it with a Jewel or Timney or something. I like mine just fine. 

 

Also, none of these accidents would have happened in the first place if the people with the rifles were practicing proper firearm safety. Keep the thing unloaded and pointed in a safe direction for goodness sake. I also believe some of the accidents probably involved the user accidentally pulling the trigger, then blaming it on the rifle. Doesn't make it alright to have a rifle that goes off though. When I by a gun, I want to be able to trust that it's not going to go off whenever it decides to. There's a couple videos out there and stories where some 700s were just firing when the action went into battery, or went off when someone set the gun down that do seem credible. 

 

Bottomline, It's great that Remington is trying to fix the problem. It's sad that there are accidents where people are injured or killed on accident by the rifle. But I'd put most of the blame on user error.