6500rpm 670 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 How the hell do they know what the purchase price was? Are they wanting a receipt? The one I own was part of a build out I purchased from CMMG years ago, I still have the box it came in but I'm not sure if the invoice from CMMG breaks things down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Could WE be smelling a rat? That being is it possible we are all being set up to return our perfectly good Eotecks for a vague future refund of purchase price? After thinking things through a bit (difficult for me) is it possible that our military did ZERO testing since the Eotecks were first issued? Nobody in all the services ever decided to run their own field tests before using Eotecks for real? No body? None? I for one find that rather remarkable. No elite outfit took it upon their selves to do their own quick and dirty field testing? How about just about a kitchen oven and a good available deep deep freezer? None of our USGI's did this? Wow! Is it possible the Eotecks are fine and the government just wants a bunch of perfect civilian Eoteck scopes out of our hands? This is a stretch. Or ... is it? Fits the evidence. Even if that were somehow true, it still would not bother me. The story is the one we got, and it is one with deceit on the part of EOTech. They aren't denying that they did something wrong. To be perfectly honest, I've not been 100% satisfied with my HHS-1 due to the -4 reticle being somewhat difficult to use when unmagnified, the optic being somewhat on the larger side and heavier than expected, but I wouldn't send mine back, given the opportunity, if the only thing wrong with it was me not being completely happy with my purchase. No, that would be on me. It's going back because they lied to us all. The only thing I have to worry about now is, which Aimpoint? Edited December 16, 2015 by forsaken352 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Could WE be smelling a rat? That being is it possible we are all being set up to return our perfectly good Eotecks for a vague future refund of purchase price? After thinking things through a bit (difficult for me) is it possible that our military did ZERO testing since the Eotecks were first issued? Nobody in all the services ever decided to run their own field tests before using Eotecks for real? No body? None? I for one find that rather remarkable. No elite outfit took it upon their selves to do their own quick and dirty field testing? How about just about a kitchen oven and a good available deep deep freezer? None of our USGI's did this? Wow! Is it possible the Eotecks are fine and the government just wants a bunch of perfect civilian Eoteck scopes out of our hands? This is a stretch. Or ... is it? Fits the evidence. I have a much more sinister theory. US based isis operatives have taken Eotech hostage and they are merely trying to swindle Americans out of their optics so they can outfit themselves for a potential hostile takeover from within.... or maybe they are shipping them overseas since US vendors won't do it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I still can not understand or explain why our US Military did not test their own Eotecks and find out on their own very early that Eotecks had problems. But ... our reality is that now Eotecks are probably going to become quite non expensive or non valuable on the open civilian market soss it might be best just to take their purchase price refund money and run. There may be other good options available today. But ... we can NOT find one. Stashed it some place. NIB. Dunno where. Yikes! I hate this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hillary bougt the company thru the Clinton Foundation, and for an undisclosed 'speaking fee' for Bill, she is shipping them to Daesh, when she gets elected she will use the addresses from the returns to confiscate your guns to send them to Daesh too......... How's that for a conspiracy theory! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 We found that missing NIB Eoteck. The one with the big red circle with the red dot in the middle. It was dedicated to a S12 which is also NIB. It was under the 5 bricks of Winchester Super X .22 ammo. No wonder we could not find it. Nobody here shoots off .22 ammo .... too expensive. The scopes will be sent out today. We will see. Still have not settled on a purchase price. Will include an estimate with the return authorization. Our printer is also out of ink. If not one thing it is another. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I can see them receiving the returns. What I don't see is how they can possibly have the money on hand to repay the purchase price on every item they ever sold. Something tells me this would fall outside of their insurance policy due to intentional malfeasance. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) I read an article that stated they'd put aside $23M for this. If you average $550 per, that is 41800+ optics. They want this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible, and then try to recover. Edited December 16, 2015 by ChileRelleno 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hillary bougt the company thru the Clinton Foundation, and for an undisclosed 'speaking fee' for Bill, she is shipping them to Daesh, when she gets elected she will use the addresses from the returns to confiscate your guns to send them to Daesh too......... How's that for a conspiracy theory! I like it -- especially if they ARE as defective as stated... Here muzzie muzzie muzzie... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hillary bougt the company thru the Clinton Foundation, and for an undisclosed 'speaking fee' for Bill, she is shipping them to Daesh, when she gets elected she will use the addresses from the returns to confiscate your guns to send them to Daesh too......... How's that for a conspiracy theory! Good, good, but... She doesn't need return addresses to know where all these guns are. Everybody knows the government already has a database registry of every firearm ever sold through a FFL. They call it Form 4473 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Guess I'll send in the old 552. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I can see them receiving the returns. What I don't see is how they can possibly have the money on hand to repay the purchase price on every item they ever sold. Something tells me this would fall outside of their insurance policy due to intentional malfeasance. Gov't contracts. If a hammer is $1200 then an optic is probably $20k or so. I would not be surprised to find that close to reality. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sccritterkiller 473 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Still haven't decided to send mine in yet..If I do that means I will have 4 guns to zero in. They going send me a few boxes of ammo too? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heartbreaker 1,085 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Still haven't decided to send mine in yet..If I do that means I will have 4 guns to zero in. They going send me a few boxes of ammo too? 4 guns to re-zero is better than 4 guns that won't hold zero... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Hmmm... I just got an E-mail back from EOTech saying: Dear Customer, Your original submission was incomplete, we will need all of your information in this format below. Please complete the information below and submit it back to this email in a reply. Your request will be reviewed and you will be contacted by email on how to proceed with returning your HWS for a refund. (Note: only HWS product will be considered, magnifiers are not eligible for a refund.) Refund Request Name (Payee): ___________ Mailing address: ___________ City: ___________ State: ___________ Zip: ___________ Email: ___________ Phone: ___________ Total refund amount requested: ___________ (the price you purchased the product for) Receipts Yes or No: ___________ Sight information: list below Model number ___________ Serial number ___________ Date of Mfg ___________ Price Paid ___________ I didn't know what was missing at first, except the price (didn't mention any price in the original RARF), since I've filled it all out already. I expected them to ask about the amount, however, I didn't expect them to require a complete do-over of the form. The thing that caught my attention, though, is like above, they don't do refunds on magnifiers. That would be fine and all, but the trouble is, I bought an HHS-1 as a package. I still have the box, which has foam cutouts for both the HWS and magnifier. Should I just find a retail price on a website for the EXPS3-4, say I don't have a receipt, and call it good? Edited December 17, 2015 by forsaken352 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Give a fair price, mark No and call it good. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 The Eoteck saga continues. Pretty much to do about little. Anyhow, now we looked and looked through our old receipts and tax records but can find nothing concerning Eotecks or where they came from and how much we paid for them. We will have to include an estimate. My lady friends printer was out of black toner also. Don't you LOVE this shit? Still would work with red soss that is the Christmas color Eoteck gets. Copies of the return policy plus a hand note stating about what we paid for them. We are not going to gouge. A likely reasonable price only. Honesty is the best policy. We would never lie! Hear that Queen Bitch? $400 ... er ... how about $4000 bucks each!! Hee hee hee. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 So far I was not asked (yet) about how much I paid -- if they do I will say $529.00, the average going price today. I figure that's fair seeing they may have put me and my loved ones lives in danger... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Hmmm... I just got an E-mail back from EOTech saying: Dear Customer, Your original submission was incomplete, we will need all of your information in this format below. Please complete the information below and submit it back to this email in a reply. Your request will be reviewed and you will be contacted by email on how to proceed with returning your HWS for a refund. (Note: only HWS product will be considered, magnifiers are not eligible for a refund.) I didn't know what was missing at first, except the price (didn't mention any price in the original RARF), since I've filled it all out already. I expected them to ask about the amount, however, I didn't expect them to require a complete do-over of the form. The thing that caught my attention, though, is like above, they don't do refunds on magnifiers. That would be fine and all, but the trouble is, I bought an HHS-1 as a package. I still have the box, which has foam cutouts for both the HWS and magnifier. Should I just find a retail price on a website for the EXPS3-4, say I don't have a receipt, and call it good? I did the same on my first one, I figured they would ask for a $$ amount with the next email. Got the same message, I couldn't figure out how to go back to the original, so I filled out a new one( actually 2) Sending back 4 of my 7. I kinda felt bad as I have not had a single problem, but after they admitted 100% failure rate, I don't think I could ever trust them again. Since that is my favorite reticle , much faster than a single dot, I am switching everything over to the J Point Edited December 17, 2015 by toothandnail 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 So far I was not asked (yet) about how much I paid -- if they do I will say $529.00, the average going price today. I figure that's fair seeing they may have put me and my loved ones lives in danger... Filled out their new form, and used $529 as purchase and asking price. Seems about right considering OpticsPlanet has them for $539 right now, as well as your reasoning above. Hoping they won't give me any shit about the price since the HWS and magnifier came in a package together, and the serial number might show that. How else am I supposed to give them a purchase price other than current retail of the HWS if they don't want the entire HHS? Annoying to say the least, but at least a form 4 got approved yesterday, so there's that. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Some of our Eotecks have no serial numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Got this reply today: Your refund request has been received and approved. Please print and enclose this email with your optic and return it to: EOTech Refunds, 1201 E Ellsworth Rd, Ann Arbor, MI, 48108. EOTech will refund the purchase price plus $15 shipping cost as soon as possible. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Looks like FINALLY after a series of unfortunate events our 4 Eotecks will go out Friday, 18 December, 2015 for the purchase price refund. I got a bad feeling about this. Wanna bet it will be well into February before any of us sees any refund money? If then? Rumours abound. We will see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 Hillary bougt the company thru the Clinton Foundation, and for an undisclosed 'speaking fee' for Bill, she is shipping them to Daesh, when she gets elected she will use the addresses from the returns to confiscate your guns to send them to Daesh too......... How's that for a conspiracy theory! I like it -- especially if they ARE as defective as stated... Here muzzie muzzie muzzie... The defect is a cold weather problem. Probably not too relevant in Iraq. Maybe pakistan, but that's a place I would rather have long range optics anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 IIRC, the problem with point of aim .shift occurs in both hot and cold extremes. In the Middle East they could experience both ends of the spectrum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 The Eoteck saga continues. A series of unfortunate events continues. Still need the various copies of the return authorization. Stuck in my E mail server. Frontier Communications down again. Seems I can not forward my E mail to my lady friends computer. Some sort of snag. But I can access this Forum? Very slowly. WTF? Also stopped by the post office and the lines are out the door. Sossss ... now looks like the return package will not get out of town by sun down until early next week. Or ... now we will find out that Eoteck has shut down for 10 days around the holidays? Do not know this yet. Probably will happen. Everything else has gone wrong with this cluster fuck. Are we having fun yet? I for one just might wait until after Christmas to ship the Eotecks back. Do not do well standing in lines for 45 minutes. Post Office here in SW OR USA is like molasses in January. Shit. All for now. More later. At least it is just pouring down rain and not snowing ... yet. Quite warm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Okay Put the eotecH 552 in the mail to them on Tuesday the 15th at 10:47AM with tracking. Just checked and it was delivered on Thursday the 17th at 12:52PM. Now the wait really begins What's next??? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Hillary bougt the company thru the Clinton Foundation, and for an undisclosed 'speaking fee' for Bill, she is shipping them to Daesh, when she gets elected she will use the addresses from the returns to confiscate your guns to send them to Daesh too......... How's that for a conspiracy theory! I like it -- especially if they ARE as defective as stated... Here muzzie muzzie muzzie... The defect is a cold weather problem. Probably not too relevant in Iraq. Maybe pakistan, but that's a place I would rather have long range optics anyway. Don't mess with a really GOOD conspiracy theory! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 19, 2015 Report Share Posted December 19, 2015 Summary of the Problem Identified performance issues include: Thermal Drift – After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Fading Reticle – The complete 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle may not be visible to the operator throughout the entire viewing window of the ECOS-Q optic. The ECOS-Q system’s age and environmental exposure are factors which accelerate reticle dimming. Impact to operators is the holographic reticle may not be visible in all firing positions. Parallax Error – Parallax is an apparent change in the position of an object resulting from a change in position of the observer. The 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle point of aim will appear to move in relation to your target during off-axis firing positions where maintaining cheek-weld and sight picture is not feasible. The ECOS-Q system has the potential of approximately 4 Minute of Angle (MOA) parallax error at 70°F and approximately 6 MOA parallax error at 5°F. Impact to the operators is the point of aim / point of impact will be affected by a MOA parallax error, in off-axis firing positions at all temperatures. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Found this gem in a thread from '12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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