Saiga used in shooting accident,

[jimmygun 0]

I remember last year when this Asian guy killed a couple of hunters in the woods, I was reading an old article about it and guess what rifle he was carrying a saiga 7.62x39, holy crap!!! I don't read news papers or watch the news that often that is why i found out till now, but now saiga made a mark in the accident.

[SaigaShooter 0]

Well, it wasn't much of an accident, if you google it, he was recently sentenced to life in prison, on i belive 6 counts of murder

[cheeser 0]

It was an SKS, as I recall. And it certainly was no accident, the victim was trying to get him to leave a tree stand on private property.

[expeditionx 1]

It was an SKS, as I recall. And it certainly was no accident, the victim was trying to get him to leave a tree stand on private property.

 

I seen a copy of the police report posted either at ak-47.net or another site. It was copied from the county website where it happened. The report said Saiga sks. There have not been any Saiga sks rifles imported that I am aware of. Most likely the cop making the report didnt know the difference between an sks and the product name read off the weapon. I bet 100,000,000,000,000 to 1 that it was a standard Saiga rifle and not an sks.

[jimmygun 0]

Well I also think it wasn't an accident, but it was a saiga. Check and read the article.

 

http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingTimes...les.asp?ID=7366

[RangerM9 1]

It was an SKS, as I recall. And it certainly was no accident, the victim was trying to get him to leave a tree stand on private property.

 

I seen a copy of the police report posted either at ak-47.net or another site. It was copied from the county website where it happened. The report said Saiga sks. There have not been any Saiga sks rifles imported that I am aware of. Most likely the cop making the report didnt know the difference between an sks and the product name read off the weapon. I bet 100,000,000,000,000 to 1 that it was a standard Saiga rifle and not an sks.

 

 

Chai Vang was the guys name and yes he did get convicted on several counts and will be spending the rest of his life in pound me in the ass prison.

 

the news around here (i'm in WI where this all went down) all said it was an SKS, but i did read elsewhere that it was a saiga.....tho i seem to recall it had a 20 round mag....

 

what ever....we know the 7.62 is lethal enough.

[Ross Man 0]

Yes, it was a Saiga. I remember seeing the actual police report online. It posted the serial #. Ironically, I have a 7.62 Saiga that was only about 600 #s off from the serial # the killer used!

[stokstad 4]

Yes it was a saiga. The dummy's had never seen one and just assumed it was an SKS.

[RangerM9 1]

Yes it was a saiga. The dummy's had never seen one and just assumed it was an SKS.

 

Just pulled this off of Wikipedia on Chai Vang...so i guess that confirms it nicely

 

Vang is the father of six children, a family shaman [1], and a hunting enthusiast. Chai Vang and his brothers came to the United States from Laos in 1980 and settled in California. Chai Vang lived in Sacramento and eventually enlisted with the California National Guard.

 

Around the year 2000, Vang moved to Minneapolis, Minnesota. A few years later, he and his family moved a few miles to the neighboring city of St. Paul. Both the Minneapolis and St. Paul police departments answered several calls about domestic violence at the Vang residences during this time.

 

On the weekend of the murders, Vang went out deer hunting with two friends and their two sons in northwest Wisconsin, a region where deer hunting is particularly popular, east of Birchwood, Wisconsin and around the town of Meteor (the town has a large area with a low population, and would be considered a township in other U.S. states). In this region, there is a mix of public and private land. It is believed that Vang and his friends began their day on public land, but he later went onto a private 400 acre (1.6 km²) tract of land. Residents and local hunters (almost exclusively white) are known to frequently accuse the Hmong of trespassing onto private land and hunting and fishing more than is allowed.

 

On Sunday, November 21, a hunting party of about 15 people were in a cabin on this private land. One person, Terry Willers, left the cabin and saw Vang sitting in a deer stand. He used a handheld radio to ask the people still in the cabin whether or not anyone should be in the stand. Upon receiving a response in the negative on that question, he began to approach Vang and called to him to leave the private land. After asking directions, Vang proceeded to walk away towards a trail through a forested area of the property. He was confronted at that point by five of the hunters from the cabin who had heard Terry Willers radio message. It must be noted that the area in question during the event did not contain sign denoting private property. The events after the confrontation are under dispute. What is fairly certain is that as he apologized for the error, was confronted by Robert Crotteau, and later allowed to walked away. At this point the aggressor of this event will only be known by Willers, Hesebeck, and Vang; however, four of the eight injured hunters were shot in the back, and three of these four were hit by multiple rounds.

 

Terry Willers radioed the cabin and said that they had been shot. The others came out to provide assistance, some riding on all-terrain vehicles. Vang proceeded to shoot more of the hunters. Within a short period, five of the hunters were dead and three more were wounded. Vang then disappeared into the woods. It is believed that he fired about 20 rounds from an Saiga rifle chambered in 7.62x39 serial number HO-3104079.

Vang was apprehended about five hours after the shootings and was placed in custody of the Sawyer County Jail on November 24, 2004. His bail is set for $2.5 million.

 

One of the wounded hunters died the next day, bringing the toll to six dead and two wounded.

[dinzag 31]

Not to take Vang's side...as it's obvious he got too carried away.

 

Personally, I hate trespassers and don't think private property needs posted signs every few feet, but...

 

If those hunters are like any of the rednecks we have over here on this side of the pond, I'm sure he had a weapon or two pointed at him, some colorful language expressed and possibly a shot fired in his direction as he was walking away. I just know how some of us are...

[Bvamp 604]

as I recall, it was named as a "saiga SKS" rifle with a "twenty round magazine that (vang) tossed into the swamp becaus ehe did not wish to shoot any more people"

 

guns screw and have babies apparantly, and SKS is Saiga's wife apparantly...

 

'cause they havin mutants.....

 

Ive heard of it happening before on this very forum, actually.

 

guns dont kill...people kill....and they will continue to kill each other regardless of what you put in thier hand....

[RangerM9 1]

Not to take Vang's side...as it's obvious he got too carried away.

 

Personally, I hate trespassers and don't think private property needs posted signs every few feet, but...

 

If those hunters are like any of the rednecks we have over here on this side of the pond, I'm sure he had a weapon or two pointed at him, some colorful language expressed and possibly a shot fired in his direction as he was walking away. I just know how some of us are...

 

 

No excusing the fact that he killed 6 people and needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. I do agree though we will never know exactly what happened up in those woods that day, but i suspect there was a slew of racial epithets shouted out him, and i don't doubt there was a warning shot over his head....i just don't see any other reason why the guy would have started shooting to kill, since by the survivors own admission he was leaving as ordered when more of the hunting party showed up and confronted him again.....

 

it was a terrible day for race relation in the state and hunter safety in general....never should have happened, but, he should not have been there, and they should have left him leave as he was trying to.

[sillypants83 0]

Sorry for repeating when unneccessary, but it was a Saiga and I thought it was awesome when I found out. Not that I condone shooting people or support Vang, it was just kinda cool in a sick way to see that someone used my gun for some human hunting. I remember watching the news, and the prosecuting attorney was holding the gun up in the court room. I just wanted to get that out, I realize this might be boring to read.

SAIGA 4 EVA

[uzitiger 193]

Vang is a good for nothing murderer and whatever caused him to shoot six people is wrong furthermore he should have respected private property and gotten off the land he was tresspassing on.

The anti gun press will always sensationalize any murder committed with a firearm to help the gun ban cause. They naturally will blame the firearm instead of the murderer.

[cheeser 0]

Thanks all for verifying that it was a Saiga.

 

The sheriff at the news conference the day of the shooting said something like, "it is a rifle often used for hunting", so he didn't encourage the gun grabbers by calling it an assault weapon or anything.

[jimmygun 0]

well a saiga can be a hunting rifle, a plinker, target. A .22LR pistol can be a hunter, plinker, target, the only difference is the caliber both are semiauto, both can cause injury if some dumb bastard doesn't go by the law and the rules, overhere in Texas I had to take a 12 hour class 4 nights for a hunter's education program, to get a permit to hunt plus you still have to purchase your hunting license, they showed all the safety issues, gun types, handling, types of shooting I think they should enforce that permit to anyone that wants to buy a firearm, you would discourage dumb bastards from buying a gun a day before they were invited for a hunt by someone that probably has never hunt in their lives and know crap about guns, plus they would have to pass the exam, to get the permit, that is not hard, but it might be for a dumb bastard that don't know crap about hunting or guns. And that might solve some issues with gun related accidents or tragedy. The other time at the range also were some 23 year old kids shooting all over the place, there is no range officer, so I had to act like one, and tell them to stop being stupid or I was going to report them to the range owners. And even if they were 2 and I was only one I had my Glock22 on my right side and holding my Saiga 223 in my right hand, they only had a 9mm, I guess my saiga intimidates people, and I love it.

[Bvamp 604]

how do you think it would have headlined "russian ak47 is a SPORTING firearm." they woulda had a field day BOTH ways with that one. I also think the sheriff didnt quite know what it was he had until he saw our forum here. there were some questions asked here directly to me, which i answered and I never heard anything more about it thankfully.

 

the government and president clinton need to take these illegal gun laws and shove them up thier collective assholes and let us live our lives in freedom, and armed to the teeth if we so choose, as free men.

 

everything fed to us in the public eye is tainted to suit some other guy's needs that apparantly does not exist. I firmly believe vang told the truth. I believe he WAS shot at. the law here is it is a felony to discharge in the GENERAL DIRECTION of another human being or dwelling. if some group of guys put a bullet past MY head when *I* was leaving after being harrassed in a angry manner, I would have shot the mother too. and then the guy that went for the gun. and the two guys that came and took whatever it was that they took. there is no way in HELL that there was only one bolt gun among 7? or 8 guys confronting a tresspasser DURING HUNTING SEASON! what a crock of shit.

 

Maybe people will think twice before being racist bastards and taking pot shots at people when thier back is turned like they have a right. THAT is what happened. not some nutjob flipping out randomly. the good old boys are protecting each other, and its quite obvious to me. If someone did that to me, and I knew it was intentional, I would kill them. pretty simple. vang did say the first shot went right past his head, and he was a former military guy, so Im sure he knows what that sounds like. I know what it sounds like, myself.

 

I feel bad for all parties involved in different ways I guess. the guy had one or two probably justified shootings and maybe he lost it after realising he just had to kill someone for no fucking reason and just said screw it, may as well get the rest of these assholes before they throw me in some hole in some prison somewhere. I am ashamed that my fellow countrymen would treat someone like that as well. the guy was leaving on all accounts. why take a pot shot at the guy? what in hell is wrong with people...

[expeditionx 1]

When I first heard of this incident, I figured Vang flipped out when he was shot at.

The Boston Masacre around 1770 was based on a similar situation.

A crowd of Bostonians started pelting a group of British soldiers with snowballs to harass them.

Some people in the crowd at some point starting taking the harassing a bit further and used real stones.

A decent size stone thrown fairly fast could severely injury or kill someone if it hits them in the head.

The British soldiers shot into the crowd when a threat was seen.

 

American soldiers are allowed to defend themselves against a threat even if the threat is near a crowd.

Cops have the same option. Vang was justified at shooting into a crowd if the threat was within the crowd.

 

The way I see it, the only blame to pin on him is what he did to unarmed by-standards.

I wasnt there and did not see what happened. For all I know, every last person might have been armed and after Vang shot back they all might of took an offensive postition. Removing evidence from a location has been done before. Someone could have removed all of the guns the hunting party had with them to make Vang look like he fired on an unarmed hunting group. I have never seen a hunting party carry around only one firearm. I doubt the rest of them planned on deer hunting with a bow and arrow.

[Bvamp 604]

the police report and statement that vang later made said that two guys rolled up, checked around, and instead of picking someone up and riding them out, they were just "doing something" and then leaving. what? you dont pick up your friend when hes laying there dying? hmmmmmmmmmmmm now WHY IS THAT.....

 

its a good thing I wasnt on that jury. if it were up to me, vang would have been cleared of at LEAST the first two killings, and gotten manslaughter on the rest based on temporary insanity because of being forced to kill another human being that was armed and obviously meant him bodily harm.

 

I guess this is a good lesson for all though. you can be big and tough and all that as much as you want. sooner or later, you will pull that bullshit on the wrong person, and they are going to call you on it and nail YOU instead.

 

 

Im still not sure if the lack of saiga publicity was a good or bad thing. the liberals probably would have found out that an ak47 is a legitimate hunting gun, and would either have to shut the hell up, or they would have made MORE laws.

[DaGroaner 2]

If I'm put in a position where I have to fight off eight armed men I'd shoot as many of them in the back as I could rather than allowing them to fight from cover. The fact that they make so much of that particular aspect of it bothers me. I hope Vang wasn't the actual victim in this case.

Edited March 5, 2006 by DaGroaner

[G O B 3,516]

Vang was tresspasing-and was in a treestand he KNEW was not his own The man was at least an asshole. There was no possible way that he had to kill 6 people 5 ot them unarmed to get away. He deserves the death penalty.

 

G O B

[5knives 0]

Hmmm,

 

Main reason I visit/post so rarely here is the abundance of opinion and the shortage of facts!

 

This thread is too typical!

 

I'll apologize in advance if I seem a bit harsh but I can't let some of this ignorance stand.

 

BTW, before someone starts the "bigot" "redneck" and "racist" epithets. I'll point out that my experience with the Hmong people goes back 50 years, both in Asia and here. I spent the last 6 years of my working life as an instructor, training Hmong immigrants for employment. And yes, some of my closest friends and all that.

 

Here are a few facts to consider, but first a little background,

 

A. There have been continuos problems with Hmong "hunters" since they first arrived here and were given Drivers licenses and hunting licenses. Trespass is a very foreign concept to the Hmong, there really is no word in their language for it. Trespass, theft, and arson has been too common since their arrival in Wisconsin. I've been threatened with brandished firearms on my own and relatives land, most of it clearly posted.

 

B. There is an age group of Hmong males that simply refuses to adapt, Vang is in that age group. child and Spouse abuse is the norm, "It's they're way". T hat's how we got the guy a few years ago that cut off his 18 year old Daughters hands for being "disrespectful". It helps to know that they were jerked out of a near stone-age, grass hut fire in the middle of the floor culture and dropped into The U.S.A. with virtually no preparation or training.

 

C. It's a totally different culture, period. Fortunately, the women and younger people are adapting well and turning into good hard-working citizens. Vang is of the area where Men and Boys did as they pleased, and women and girl children shut up and did as they were told!

 

D. Historically, the state has been very "forgiving" about the Hmong's violations, not pressing charges the way they would against anyone else. Basically their hunting method id to get a bunch of relatives together, march through the woods making as much noise as possible, and shoot at anything that moves. You do NOT want to be in the same woods as a Hmong hunting party. Fortunately, that's slowly changing as the younger generation adapts.

 

Too sum it up ... if you've never worked with or researched the Hmong, their background and their immigration into the U.S, then you might want to go slow on the opinions!

 

About the Murders.

 

1. Yes it was a Saiga that Vang used.

 

2. Wisconsin Law is very specific about the tough Trespass Laws, posting is not required.

If you are on land you do not own, without written permission from the landowner, you are guilty of trespass, and any DNA Warden, Sheriffs Deputy or other LEO can arrest you. The Fines are VERY heavy! The Wisconsin Hunting license instructions, are very clear about this.

 

3. Permanent tree stands are illegal on public land, may only be set up on private land, finding a permanent tree stand, means you are almost certainly on private land. Getting into one means you are either trespassing or looking at another $4,000 fine if a warden finds you in one on public land.

 

4. Only one rifle beside Vang's Saiga was at the scene of the murders. One shot had been fired from it by one of the wounded Hunters, in response to Vang's attack.

 

5. Bodies were spread out over a fairly wide are, indicating that Vang had pursued his victims and shot them as he found them. He came up to one wounded hunter, who was trying to crawl away, said "What! You not dead yet?" and shot him in the back again. The woman he killed was a nurse. coming to the scene to see who needed help!

 

6. Vang admitted the Murders in his confession.

 

7. Vang owned 40 acres of prime Deer hunting land in Minnesota, with a very nice lodge on it. Vang had been found guilty of one trespass charge in Minn. and was waiting trial on 3 others.

 

8. A similar murder had occurred nearby 2 years prior, under very similar circumstances, the witnesses reports fit Vang, his truck, and his 2 hunting partners.

 

9. Vang's two "hunting partners" have disappeared back into the Hmong community, (California, Minnesota or Wisconsin) and are still being sought.

 

10. The Jury that found him guilty was drawn from Dane County, home of UW Madison and the biggest nest of bleeding heart PC liberal we-are-the-world "useful Idiots" in the U.S.

Berkley and San Francisco are mere second class wannabe's by comparison! If there had been any imaginable excuse they would have let him off.

 

Disbelieve me?

 

Be my guest!

 

But do a simple google search on "Chia Vang" and look it up. Even the super liberal Milwaukee Journal Sentinel stories couldn't gloss over what this murdering sociopath did.

 

BTW, The Milwaukee Hmong elders already found him guilty before the formal trial even started and decreed that if he ever sets foot in Milwaukee, he is to be apprehended and promptly hung. Nothing except his death will lift that judgenent.

 

But you won't find that in the newspapers!

 

Regards

Edited March 13, 2006 by 5knives

[dinzag 31]

Whoa dude it's just the internet! Relax.

 

I still say assault by rednecks - self defense...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rangerruck 0]

Not to take Vang's side...as it's obvious he got too carried away.

 

Personally, I hate trespassers and don't think private property needs posted signs every few feet, but...

 

If those hunters are like any of the rednecks we have over here on this side of the pond, I'm sure he had a weapon or two pointed at him, some colorful language expressed and possibly a shot fired in his direction as he was walking away. I just know how some of us are...

 

 

No excusing the fact that he killed 6 people and needs to spend the rest of his life in prison. I do agree though we will never know exactly what happened up in those woods that day, but i suspect there was a slew of racial epithets shouted out him, and i don't doubt there was a warning shot over his head....i just don't see any other reason why the guy would have started shooting to kill, since by the survivors own admission he was leaving as ordered when more of the hunting party showed up and confronted him again.....

 

it was a terrible day for race relation in the state and hunter safety in general....never should have happened, but, he should not have been there, and they should have left him leave as he was trying to.

if you red court trans that #ss was no further than 10 feet away from the stand, and several of the people he shot were several more feet away from the stand than that. to me , that indicates, he hadnt walked off at all, as if he was leaving, and then was confronted. also some people had multiple gunshot wounds in the back. it he had been up close confronted, by big scary rascist hunters, he never would have gotten that weapon up to fire , if they were right in his face. this guy was also known to have cried the race wolf card many times before in his past.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Before a lot of you were ever here this same exact thread came up and ended up with a bunch of tempers flaring and name calling. Smartasses and knowitalls galore. I knew it would end up the same way as soon as I saw it posted.

Call it what you want 5knives but when a thread gets started on ANY forum and evolves into peoples opinions on racism or religion you can damn well count on it being full of opinions and light on facts. That's life. Deal with it.

[RangerM9 1]

[jtoddellis 2]

Here is a little more fuel for the fire.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2388&st=0