Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Does anyone know why the FSB is so different on the .308s? Did they put it all the way on the end of the muzzle for a reason like reinforcement or what? I think it's fugly and FUBAR as far as AKs go. I'm considering moving mine back or replacing it with a normal AK FSB and adding a brake. Any reason not to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Dunno either. The 308 Vepr is the same way...sort of. Mine's getting done soon. I'm making a lower retainer right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 (edited) Let me know how that lower retainer works out for you. The RPK retainer I.D. is fine but overall it is much bigger than a standard AK lower. I took your dimensions for the S-12 lower retainer and did a drawing in emachineshop. I have used emachineshop for work before but what they did for me was three axis chemical milling. What I am asking is if anyone out there has had any experience with sand casting and if this would work. They would have to do a check of the file I madeup using dinzag dimensions. The best solution to these Saiga lower retainers is a two piece, set screwed, sandcasted unit. Also, what kind of interest would there be in having these manufactured. lower_retainer.bmp Edited August 6, 2006 by Mudsock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 The .308 front sight is at the muzzle to lenghten the sight distance so that the longer range round will be more accurate, and while they were at it they made it so that "evil" bayonets and muzzle attachments won't work (DAMN YOU Uncle batfuck!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 BATFuck...lol Well if that's the only reason then I should be ok with my 22" bbl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 (edited) Mudsock, some good ideas there. Especially being 2-piece. I made a RPK one for the VEPR and this one will be AKM/AK74 size. The Vepr one above was a hand made one out of scrap pieces I had around plus the locking lever left from making a S-12 lower retainer. For the Saiga, I'll use the locking lever from a standard retainer. That will get welded to a short piece of the S-12 barrel I have, then honed inside to the exact barrel o.d. Then that assembly will get welded to the rest of the HG retainer. (like the S-12 retainer I made minus the gas block tab) Then just notch the barrel in the right spot... I have a new FSB to put on it as well. Edited August 6, 2006 by dinzag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Does anyone know why the FSB is so different on the .308s? Did they put it all the way on the end of the muzzle for a reason like reinforcement or what? I think it's fugly and FUBAR as far as AKs go. I'm considering moving mine back or replacing it with a normal AK FSB and adding a brake. Any reason not to? Well, I agree - I don't like them and would prefer a standard AK type fsb. As to moving it back, you'll have to open-up the muzzle end to do that as it tapers like a cap with a hole in it - they just press it on till it won't go any further and then cross drill and pin. To fit a standard AKM fsb, the diameter of the end of the barrel will have to be reduced - there isn't enough material on the fsb to open it up to fit. That means either removing the barrel to allow the use of a lathe or the use of a specialized rotary cutter to remove material. I was thinking of messing with this but decide not to due to the excessive work needed. Of course, we can just mig weld a brake on the end of the fsb and clean it up with a dremel, but I don't like that option. It'd be nice if somebody produced a replacement Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 TONY- Can you weld on a thread adapter (steel with AK detent pin) in Ak 14mm lh if we send you our fromt sights? This may be the answer to getting the "tank cannon" break to stay on mine! If you can, I'll send you mine for the alpha unit! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Toad442 0 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Does any one have the barrel O.D. dimensions at the muzzle? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texlurch 0 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Having gone thru the turning down project on my WASR-3 to fit a 1/2-28 brake, I chose to just weld on the SVD style FH to the Saiga. Turned out fine and I don't usually take them on and off anyhow.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 LOL @ "Uncle Batfuck" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I'm TIG welding an AK74 thread adapter to the Stock Saiga FSB and then I'll be able to use a Bulgarian 7.62x39 AK74 style comp,Flame Arrestor or Flash Hider for my S308 without removing the damned barrel and putting it in a lathe and thereby risking srewing up my accuracy with a bunch of undue barrel stresses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Welding it on the end is not a problem. Welding it on STRAIGHT is another story. There is no bearing surface out past the front sight post to keep it reasonably straight while you weld it. I could turn a mandrel to put in the bore to center is up reasonably well, and then make a bunch of small welds around it but warpage is going to be an issue. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texlurch 0 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Welding it on the end is not a problem. Welding it on STRAIGHT is another story. There is no bearing surface out past the front sight post to keep it reasonably straight while you weld it. I could turn a mandrel to put in the bore to center is up reasonably well, and then make a bunch of small welds around it but warpage is going to be an issue. Tony I made up a po' boy alignment tool using a 1/4" ratchet extension (long) wrapped in tape, and a deep well socket that fit the inside of my SVD FH. Clamped the rifle vertical in my soft jaw vise, put a nice bevel around the back of the FH, and double checked it all before tacking it together. Shoots just as good as it did before the FH. The front of the FSB seemed to be reasonably square to the barrel axis. If I was welding on a threaded adapter, I would screw on the FH to help align everything.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Welding it on the end is not a problem. Welding it on STRAIGHT is another story. There is no bearing surface out past the front sight post to keep it reasonably straight while you weld it. I could turn a mandrel to put in the bore to center is up reasonably well, and then make a bunch of small welds around it but warpage is going to be an issue. Tony Great Okies think alike. I'm going to turn a mandrel that aligns and squeezes the FSB to the AK74 adpater and acts as a heat sink and prevents warpage then weld them together. If it works then I will be good in the hood and it not then I will have to yank the press out the barrel and turn it down for a different sight base and 14x1 threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Well, just and idea, if you press the front sight block of the Saiga .308 and ream it out with and adjustable reamer to push it back farther into barrel on rifle, giving you all the space in front of FSB to install a muzzle brake, you can ream inside of adapter 14 by 24 to install and ak74 style muzzle brake or just ream a cheapo brake to be silver solder or welded to front of rifle or anything that you will like to install on the rifle front end. Now if you move the front sight block back into the rifle barrel and is not cuts for the pins that hold the front sight block just silver solder the damn thing to the barrel and there it goes. Well a cheapo adjustable reamer will cost about 10 bucks made over seas can be use to do a rifle or two, if you going to go into mass production get a good reamer, the reamer is made to be use by hand nice and easy. just my two cents Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 This used to be my solution but the last time I pressed a barrel on what was an extrememly accurate rifle I noticed my group sizes opened up from just under an inch to almost 3 inches so I have been leary of pressing barrels on and off of anyrthing but short stiff krinkov type barrels since then. Besides I think I enjoy the longer sight radius enough to do some experimenting with the FS/AK74 thread adapter thing and worse case scenario I replace it or salvage the top portion of the sight and weld it to the GB like I did on my shorty. I wonder about the thread adapter though I have so many AKM and FN/FAL stuff I could use but that might be a tall order. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dasu 1 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Sopmod, what front sight did you put on that rifle? Why did it require you to press the entire barrel off? Anyways it looks great, even if it shortens the sight radius. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Sopmod, what front sight did you put on that rifle? Why did it require you to press the entire barrel off? Anyways it looks great, even if it shortens the sight radius. That's not the AK that had the barrel pressing issue,that is my first attempt at a solution.It is the original fron sight cut at the exact angle to weld it to the original gas block.I clamped them together,welded them and then cleaned up the welds with a dremel and a rounded diamond file. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) Sopmod, what front sight did you put on that rifle? Why did it require you to press the entire barrel off? Anyways it looks great, even if it shortens the sight radius. That's not the AK that had the barrel pressing issue,that is my first attempt at a solution.It is the original fron sight cut at the exact angle to weld it to the original gas block.I clamped them together,welded them and then cleaned up the welds with a dremel and a rounded diamond file. Really impress, really good work, what I was saying was not to press off barrel, just the front sight block to ream it and push it back like from ½ inch to ¾ of and inch on barrel, giving you space to install anything in end of barrel. I have look into installing and FSGB in my .223 but no were to find one, I have think of doing what you just did to the GB or go with the ACE front sight hood and silver solder it to the GB, still very impress by your skill with the metal, like it a lot. Edited August 18, 2006 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dasu 1 Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 thats nice work, sopmod. i might just have to try to replicate, even if the welds a re a lot crummier. so long as its straight ill be happy - i hope Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 (edited) thats nice work, sopmod. i might just have to try to replicate, even if the welds a re a lot crummier. so long as its straight ill be happy - i hope Don't be fooled by the finished product!! Those welds looked like the Himalayas before I went after them with the die grinder.I slowly added 8620 rod until it was way more than I needed then ground the excess off and then die grinding to shape finished with a set of diamond files to make the flats flat and the curves round. Total time invested was about 4 hours meaning that essentially ther is $100 worth of my labor in it Edited August 19, 2006 by SOPMOD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Time invested in ones own property is time well spent... Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 +1 to that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rotor 0 Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 If starting from scratch. ( like I might ) Would it be better to buy the long barrel rifle and send it to Tromix for a cutdown. Ooops . Are these chrome lined? In that case no cutting. JR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Even though it is "chrome" lined you can still cut it. It's not the chrome like on a bumper. I did my S-12 with the abrasive chop saw. I then dressed it up with a file. I wouldn't worry about the lining flaking or anything. It's more of a lapping process than a thick coating...make sense? I might be chopping my 22" S-308 back too - haven't decided for sure yet. Tricky part there is duplicating the crowning & making sure the rifling isn't disturbed at the end. As for small TIG welders, I'm pretty happy with the el-cheap-o Harbor Freight unit I have. I spent $160 on it new. (norm $200) It doesn't have the high-freq start, but with some practice you get the scratch start down pretty good. Tungsten electrodes are $13 for 5 of 'em, then you need a regulator and an Argon bottle. I think I have $300 into everything. You can do some really nice welds with it - even a beginner. I had my buddy weld some stainless tubing last night and he's never welded before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 Im no welder by any means, but I have to agree with dinzag on this one, mig and especially tig welders are MUCH MUCH easier than a stick or torch weld setup. once they are set correctly, that is. getting the weld looking and being perfect and even without going back over it, and the thicker welds (especially softer metals like aluminum) is what a good welder is all about (speed is also a part of it), and why they get paid well for thier work. if you have room to work with, it isnt as hard as one might think that hasnt done it before. im not even sure if there is an application for torch welding with guns, save barrel inserts, or shotgun ribs. i dont think id even trust anyone but the maker to sweat a seperated drilling (multiple barrel single shot). like was said above. its GOTTA be straight, or its a waste of time and money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 I'll throw in my opinion regarding welds. I would avoid gas welding- the overall heat required is much higher. Brazing and soldering are the only torch-worthy applications on a gun. Stick welding something that small just seems crazy...now, I know some of you fanatics have probably pulled it off sucessfully. Tig is really the best choice. I guess you could use a small mig, if you were careful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted August 23, 2006 Report Share Posted August 23, 2006 What if a threaded rod about an inch long lathed down with a bore guide on it was tack welded on the FSB while it was on the barrel, then removed and welded up right. drilling a hole through the threaded rod would naturally separate it from the bore guide after welding was complete. Or you could make a blank with the same OD as the Saiga barrel, and the same bore size instead of doing it on the actual barrel. It would be a jig for welding a threaded rod to the FSB that would keep everything straight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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