What is the big deal about modifying your Saiga

[7.62x51 0]

Fellow Saigaists

 

I can't understand the rational about putting a pistol grip or folding stcok on your Saiga to make it look like a "real AK". They won't shoot better or be better in any measurable way.

 

It is money better spent, IMO shooting and purchasing cartridges. Learn to shoot better and be more accurate.

 

Perhaps the 308 forum isnt the best place to vent but I think most Saiga owners read all of the sub boards.

 

No offense to those who have performed these modifications. Just don't understand the rational.

 

shoot

223308 (or 7,62x54R or 7,62x39) Pick your military caliber.

[czgunner 0]

Let me explain:

The stock triggers are not that great, so by converting, you have the option of installing a great trigger. One of the fundamentals of shooting is trigger squeeze, so by making it better, it in essence makes you better.

The old school stock does not promote a natural grip of the rifle. By converting it to pistol grip, you can control the weapon in a much better manner IMO.

The folding stock allows a much more compact weapon, and allows you to sling the rifle and be more agile.

I can go on all day about this.

So, I believe I have just explained the rational of these said items.

Any more questions?

No offence, but you aren't an anti-gun liberal slipped in here covertly by those F@G$ on the Brady commitee are you?

[RangerM9 1]

lol....that is funny...but me thinks he's legit.....how many of the Brady bunch have any clue what 7.62x54R is?.....that is too obscure for them....how many drive bys have been committed with a Mosin?.....

 

of course....i have been wrong before, and undoubtedly will be again......

[longhunter-CO 0]

Fellow Saigaists

No offense to those who have performed these modifications. Just don't understand the rational.

 

shoot

223308 (or 7,62x54R or 7,62x39) Pick your military caliber.

 

Then don't do it. Your choice.

If you can not see putting a better trigger in a rifle that helps you better hit your target or a less complicated trigger as the AK was designed for. Or in the case of the .223 and 7.62x39 guys setting your rifle up to take cheaper hi-cap mags then don't do it. Saigas are great rifles and this is a big enough tent for those who like them as they were imported or modified.

[TEXASAK73 13]

I don't get the point of your post.Once you have had a real experiance with an AK type weapon and the better triggers you will get it.

 

Why would you feel the need to vent on this subject anyway?

 

Side by side comparison with a modified saiga and one that has been unmodified.The modified ones are much more comfortable to shoot.

 

I own both and shoot better with a two stage adjustable trigger over the stock sporter trigger.

[BobAsh 582]

If you were raised on hunting-style rifles, then the broomhandle probably feels OK to you. Personally I prefer the feel of the assault-weapon configuration.

[Bender 1]

I use mine with the stock stock (heh) but I can certainly see why some convert.

 

I've gotten used to the trigger, and I'm comfortable with the stock, but at the same time I feel compelled to convert anyway. Why? It's fun! For me, it's all about the tinkering and improving. Bikes, computers, guns, the list goes on, but regardless of what it is I just can't leave 'em alone. For me it's a hobby, for others maybe not.

 

All of this leaves me with only one option: get a 2nd saiga, and convert THAT one.

[BobAsh 582]

Here's a cost-saving alternative to those high-priced folders....

 

[greatmoose 4]

Ahh, the classic Craftsman buttstock. Aren't those gauranteed for life?

[Bender 1]

Old style bayonet on that one.

[devildog1122 0]

Tinkering and improving things is in our blood. If tinkering firearms is not in yours, than move on. I rarely do any firearms modification, but love to see those "beautiful pictures" for those who does....keep on tinkering.....

Edited June 13, 2007 by devildog1122

[CZ52GUY 0]

Fellow Saigaists

 

I can't understand the rational about putting a pistol grip or folding stcok on your Saiga to make it look like a "real AK". They won't shoot better or be better in any measurable way.

 

It is money better spent, IMO shooting and purchasing cartridges. Learn to shoot better and be more accurate.

 

Perhaps the 308 forum isnt the best place to vent but I think most Saiga owners read all of the sub boards.

 

No offense to those who have performed these modifications. Just don't understand the rational.

 

shoot

223308 (or 7,62x54R or 7,62x39) Pick your military caliber.

 

While the Sporterized Design can be awkward for some, the AK design has it's own set of problems. That being said, I have 3 of 'em, 1 being a converted .308. The Sporterized Design is somewhat of a "neutered" proposition. Similar to a Glock-17 10rd Mag' for me. I'd love a "Dragonov Style" .308, may go do that eventually.

 

I have to agree that $ for $, if your goal is to be a shooter, it's better to focus on go-bang investments in ammo' than accessories or customization. For many of us, we don't have to choose, so we don't. We customize the ergonomics to taste, then we shoot the dickens out of our rifles.

 

One more thing, it's a Forum...I understand that, so some of this is unavoidable...but there's a whole lot of "angst" about what the other guy does or doesn't do to his rifle.

 

My view, your rifle, your choice. My rifle, my choice. I won't meddle, don't you be meddling.

 

Keep Safe,

 

CZ52'

[G O B 3,516]

Everyone needs to do their own thang. I would never do 1/2 the stuff people here do to their guns, but it's THEIR GUNS.

I also have no problems with changing my own to suit ME.

[gdk 0]

Why did I convert? Just to see if I could do it and have the satisfaction of said conversion after the fact, and making my friends jealous of having such a weapon. And, its more functional and practical for what I use it for, hog hunting.

[csspecs 1,987]

Try sticking a 21 inch saiga .308 in the back of a jeep. I got folding or collapsing stocks so that they would fit in my jeep.

[jaywalker 1]

High capacity magazines, pistol grips, folding stocks, flash hiders. These are all things that at one time or another have been illegal and probably will be again. The uneducated masses have actualy been brainwashed into thinking that these features make a rifle more deadly. What a crock of shit. Like a rifle with a more military appearence is more likley to be used in a violent crime. This is exactly why I convert. BECAUSE I CAN (for now). The single most important measure in insuring that we can all have a weapon configured the way we want it is to configure them the way we want them. If you like the stock Saiga, thats cool. I shoot any Saiga beter with a decent trigger and pistol grip. But the real reason is that there are too many brain dead, liberal invertibrates in this world that think that I should consider myself well equiped with a single shot .22. I believe it is my duty to be as well armed as those who are charged to "protect" us. I am sure that Diane Fienstien, Hillary Clinton, Barrak Husein Obama, Ted Kenedy and many others would love to think that the general population are ready to defend there freedom with pea shooters. And, oh yeah, It's fun to do conversions.

[7.62x51 0]

I sure didn't get the kind of response that I thought I would. Last night when I read some of them, I was tempted to reply, but thought that I had better cool down so I went for a run then reloaded for several hours.

 

Like many of you I shoot some. I think I average about 500 rounds a week mostly off my back porch and pretty informal. Longguns, handguns and rimfire. There are not any ranges near by. We shoot in a pasture for long distance targeting.

 

I've got two Saigas, a 308 and 223. they are very good $250-350 dollar guns. The short barrel of the 308 creates quite a fireball, I am tempted to trade it on the long barreled version. The mechanics of the trigger on the 308 don't lend itself to a pistol grip. The 223 has a more vertical axis to the trigger group and would be better suited than the 308 to a pistol grip. Both triggers responded quite well to some gentle polishing, the 223 trigger is particularly nice and crisp. If I need to hold the weapon close to the ground having a 8-10 round magazine and not having a hand grip are both advantages. I have the big mags for plinking but the stock mag may work better in many environments.

 

The Saigas have a good sight picture. The drop to the butt and the reach works well for my cheek and shoulder. Many military style stocks are too short for me. I have thought about putting on a ring sight on the back, like on the AR, but I think I like the wider FOV that the tangent sights offer.

 

I shoot open sites mostly, except for a Savage bolt gun with a nice scope. If I need to reach out and touch my target that is the weapon that I would go to.

 

Please hold the condesending additudes in check. It would be embarrassing if we ever meet face to face. We probably share more values than many other Americans.

 

I once, many years ago, took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemy's both foreign and domestic. I was never asked to relinquish that vow.

[BobAsh 582]

Well, everyone has an opinion about what to do (or not do) with the rifle. But since the primary focus of this board is the modifying Saigas, don't be too suprised when people disagree.

 

"Condescending attitude"....remember that it's a two-way street. When you post suggestions such as these to people, you are inferring that you know better than they do. Adding the words "no offense" has little affect.

 

I'm not trying to say you have a bad attitude- I think I understand the spirit of your post. It's just that a lot of guys will be offended when you tell them they're doing it wrong.

[Hunter78 1]

mechanics of the trigger on the 308 don't lend itself to a pistol grip. The 223 has a more vertical axis to the trigger group and would be better suited than the 308 to a pistol grip.

 

What? I'm sorry but I don't get what your going at. All the triggers in my converted saigas feel the same. You are not keeping that extended trigger or linkage when you do the conversion. You replace it with a much better trigger. You apparently know how to polish the group so polishing a better trigger then the stock one works even better. the differnce in triggers is like night and day. The rifles and shotguns also balence better as well. I will admit the saiga 308 is a little more front heavy. but this is true reguardless of the conversion or not. Basically I'm telling you to shoot a converted one next to yours before you tell people that converting is not worth it. There is more to being a good shot then spending all your money on ammo. you need the gun to work for you. For alot of us that is a conversion, If your happy with yours the way it came, good for you. I don't see the need to "vent" about what others do to their guns. If you don't like the fact that most of us on here have a conversion and talk about them, you have to understand that customization and conversions drive these forums. It would get pretty dull if it was a forum full of guys who only had stock saigas. I think we would run out of topics pretty quickly. Lastly, you should understand that you came across kind of self-rightous and it may ruffle some feathers. Enjoy your saiga we'll enjoy ours.

[TEXASAK73 13]

Basically the guy does not like our hobby.That is what I get from the post.Condescending attitude and all.

[czgunner 0]

Dude, if the 16's violent fireball is too much for you, add a flash hider. It's REALLY easy to thread the barrel. In fact, since we have so much in common (I'm still serving my country) I'll lend you the parts if you live in the N.W.

[csspecs 1,987]

I have looked at "normal" rifles and shotguns while walking miles after miles in the woods hunting, One thought always came to mind. WHY a stick? A power drill has a handle, a hair dry has a handle. So when I found out about these firearms a few years back and learned that I could put a big easy to hold handle I was sold.

 

I basically wanted to have a long gun thats I could hold at my side hanging from my arm and not drag the muzzle in the dirt. A pistol grip reduces fatigue from holding a shotgun for 5+ hours a day for three weeks (I wait all year to hunt and I hunt as much as I can) while walking the woods.

[CZ52GUY 0]

Edited June 15, 2007 by CZ52GUY

[monomonk 0]

I am reasonably happy with my stock .308 trigger. I replaced the stock polymer butt stock with the factory Dragunov. Now it looks much more vicious. The Saiga .308 with 16 inch barrel is a carbine and very handy. Since this firearm is never going to be a target rifle, I see no reason to prefer the longer barrel. The shorter barrel may in fact be more accurate.

 

Monomonk

[BobAsh 582]

I went back and carefully read the posts, and I didn't see anything disrespectful (other than one or two that were obviously humorous).

[studmuff1228 0]

mechanics of the trigger on the 308 don't lend itself to a pistol grip. The 223 has a more vertical axis to the trigger group and would be better suited than the 308 to a pistol grip.

 

What? I'm sorry but I don't get what your going at. All the triggers in my converted saigas feel the same. You are not keeping that extended trigger or linkage when you do the conversion. You replace it with a much better trigger. You apparently know how to polish the group so polishing a better trigger then the stock one works even better. the differnce in triggers is like night and day. The rifles and shotguns also balence better as well. I will admit the saiga 308 is a little more front heavy. but this is true reguardless of the conversion or not. Basically I'm telling you to shoot a converted one next to yours before you tell people that converting is not worth it. There is more to being a good shot then spending all your money on ammo. you need the gun to work for you. For alot of us that is a conversion, If your happy with yours the way it came, good for you. I don't see the need to "vent" about what others do to their guns. If you don't like the fact that most of us on here have a conversion and talk about them, you have to understand that customization and conversions drive these forums. It would get pretty dull if it was a forum full of guys who only had stock saigas. I think we would run out of topics pretty quickly. Lastly, you should understand that you came across kind of self-rightous and it may ruffle some feathers. Enjoy your saiga we'll enjoy ours.

 

 

 

Basically the guy does not like our hobby.That is what I get from the post.Condescending attitude and all.

 

You guys need to chill out he is not attacking you or anyone that converts there guns, this kind of stuff isn't right for you or anyone to say. He obviously hasn't ever shot a gun with a pistol grip or thumbhole stock, right 7.62x51? Which is y he doesn't understand how awesome and more comfortable they are to shoot.

 

I would like to add 7.62x51, they are and I would suggest you try it someday. Just for your info i put a thumbhole stock on every gun I can b/c I love them so much, I feel I can hold the gun steadier + I am more comfortable carrying it. I hope you don't let these guys bother you, some of them are very touchy b/c they can vent more securely behind their computer screens.

 

Everyone should just chill out and be happy that we all have these great guns.

Jimbo

[BobAsh 582]

"I hope you don't let these guys bother you, some of them are very touchy b/c they can vent more securely behind their computer screens."

 

...I still don't see where anyone disrespected this guy. Except maybe this..."He obviously hasn't ever shot a gun with a pistol grip or thumbhole stock, right 7.62x51?"

[TEXASAK73 13]

No disrespect to the guy.He does not get us.I can live with that.

 

I wanted a stock S-223 and use hi caps but the parts count game was not for my liking.He can do what he wants,I'm going to do what I want.

[Hunter78 1]

I'm not trying to disrespect the guy, I just don't know what he was talking about. I think he was making missinformed judgements as to the trigger of a converted gun without trying one first. I just think the way he said it came across kind of condisending. Maybe he didn't mean it that way I don't know, but whatever, I'm not critizizing him for not converting, but I think he's critical of those that do without really knowing what he's talking about.

[MadDog 3]

The deal is that we like Black Rifles (or Black Shotguns in this case). The Saigas are AK's. AK's have pistol grips. AK's have folding stocks. AK's have Flash Hiders. These guns are PC'd by mandate from Uncle Sugar. We can legally convert the nutered PC'd AK's back to what they should be. We like to tinker with guns and (did I already say it) we like Black Guns!

 

Would you want a corvette with 13" wheels? or a corvette with a truck body instead of a vette fiberglass body? If you could buy a corvette cheap with a truck body and leagally convert it back to look (and feel) (and drive) like a corvette easily would you?

 

Heck we are just glad that you like Saigas stock config or whatever. I hope this helps...MadDog