Problem getting out trigger guard rivets and welds

[Dullbert 0]

I drilled and drilled for about an hour and have made little progress. I'm using cobalt bits on the drill lubed with motor oil. I've broke two smaller bits in an effort to puncture through and widen it later. I guess one thing that might be against me is I've been using my rat-tail file as a center punch which worked alright for getting the trigger bolts out, but maybe I need to dig into my pocket book again and buy yet another tool . Any other advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks for helping me stumble through my conversion.

[oldandslow 3]

I use countersinks and a drill press.

 

Others claim Dremel and carbide bit.

[6500rpm 670]

+1 for oldand slow. I demilled my .223 in about 30 min Saturday. I just used a dremmel with a carbide bit to grind the plate rivits flat, then drilled right through them with a countersink in nothing flat. After that, a little lift with a flat blade screw driver, or a tap with a punch, and out they come. The Saiga trigger pins take about 10 seconds each with a countersink also.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

So these countersinks seem to be the way to go. I used the cobalt bits on my last conversion, but it was still a pain on the weld spot. I'm gonna have to try the countersinks next time.

[aresv 49]

Either your drills are dull, or the rivets on your gun are extra hard. Try annealing the rivets with a torch. Heat them up to at least 600F and let them cool slowly air, then try drilling again. If that doesn't work, it's your drills. Dull stellited drills cut just as poorly as dull HSS.

 

If you're having trouble with the FCG pins, make sure they're not spinning. You may need to reach inside the receiver and grab the pins with pliers or a vise-grip to keep them from spinning.

[nalioth 405]

You guys are going overboard on the saiga-specific FCG pins (the ones are the rear). All it takes is a cold chisel and a small ball peen hammer. Tap the edges of the pins inward and they'll almost fall out (these are the same type pins used for the magazine catch).

 

I use a cold chisel on the front and rear rivets holding the plate and such in place, and i center punch and drill the big-ass center rivet (the one inside the trigger guard) out from the inside of the receiver.

[fobmagi 0]

lots of steady vertical pressure. I used a drill press (with titanium nitride bits) and had to really lean into it. Started at 1/8" and went up by 1/16ths till it came off.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Fob Magi

[TackDriver 1]

I still say that the easiest way is to grind down the three rivets holding the plate, punch em' out, pop off the plate, then grind down the spot weld from the back side if your going to use the trigger guard.

[Dullbert 0]

Actually I should have been more specific, the spot weld was the pain the ass. The cobalt drill bits I used were brand spanking new so that couldn't have been the problem. Yesterday I tried to drill through the weld taking over 4 hours...4 HOURS!!!! I used both my drill AND my dremel and STILL could not get it. After 4 hours I said f' it and cut the plate on all four sides surrounding the weld and finished it that way. OMG, this conversion is killing me, had I known it would have been this rough I would have bought from Red Jacket at the gun show. Now I just cut the tang off the back and tried to fit the Tromix stock adaptor and f'ing thing won't fit, its catching on the inside rivet that holds the mount of the gun, the fun never stops...

[Dullbert 0]

Oh yeah and if your wondering if its cuz I'm a girly man that wasn't pressing hard enough, I was pressing half my weight onto the drill with my chest until eventually I fell over sending the drill straight through my girlfriends carpet...good times... Oh and I live in apartment drilling and dremeling for 4+ hours straight I'm sure my neighbors love me now.

[csspecs 1,987]

What brand of bits are you using? I use Blu-Mol bits from home-depot, I find them to work ok but I buy a couple packs ever time I do a project just in case.

 

If your drill bit is not moving some metal in a timely fashion you need to replace it.

[wlnt 2]

Oh yeah and if your wondering if its cuz I'm a girly man that wasn't pressing hard enough, I was pressing half my weight onto the drill with my chest until eventually I fell over sending the drill straight through my girlfriends carpet...good times... Oh and I live in apartment drilling and dremeling for 4+ hours straight I'm sure my neighbors love me now.

 

 

Dullbert,

Join the line of members who have blown their minds on "THE WELD FROM HELL". I think the Russians are still pissed off about the cold war and use titanium metal in the area of the weld.

 

I have done 2 conversions. On that weld I have broken at least 3 bits, dulled the sharpest, newest bits that I had and finally ended up with almost a quarter inch hole before the weld finally gave up.

 

The secret is to not "throw in the towel" .

 

Once you get the trigger guard weld out of the way you are through with the most difficult part of the conversion.

 

louielouie

 

p.s. If you can use a good laugh, one time I had been drilling on that weld for about an hour before I noticed my reversable drill was (you guessed it) still set on Reverse.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

p.s. If you can use a good laugh, one time I had been drilling on that weld for about an hour before I noticed my reversable drill was (you guessed it) still set on Reverse.

 

I didn't do that on my conversion, but I have definitely done that before.

[oldandslow 3]

I'm still selling the ...

 

I see you guys like Titanium and Cobalt drills. I'm actually amazed how work hardened the spot weld becomes. With a drill press and the receiver held in a vise, I can't push through no matter what speed, pressure, or lubricant I use, with my collection of new and used Titanium and Cobalt drills.

 

I then pull out my secret weapon, and it cuts through like butter.

[6500rpm 670]

Not too much speed, medium pressure or you'll smoke the bit and your screwed. Magic bits are the shit for a lot of things.

You said you sent the bit through your girl friends carpet..............never mind ( ;

[gtnichols 51]

If you had a hand powered crank drill and a bottle of oil you should have gotten through in less than 3 hours ,..WTF man

Is your girlfriend still with you?

[Dullbert 0]

LOL, good to know I'm not alone, I don't know if you read my follow up post but I eventually cut out the guard by cutting the plate on all four sides around the guard with my dremel, it was drastic yes but after 5 hours of drilling I reached the limit, the lack of any metal dust or shaving indicated I wasn't making any further progress. Unfortunatly I cut the receiver a bit but nothing drastic. There's a similar thread titled something like Titanium drill bits not working on weld, and he eventually snapped it off. Its funny they'd make a seperate hole for a new trigger(unlike when cross conn website did theies a decade past and had to make their own) with the intent to encourage mods yet make a spot weld from hell, you must be right Russians still hate us.

[Dullbert 0]

Hand powered drill? Not familiar with it, I'm a total tool newbie. Sounds a little stone age though. As far as the rug its a weird weave and its almost impossible to tell luckily for me. I told her the story cuz it was a funny story to tell but I said it went through the carpet and not her rug.

[Dullbert 0]

Heh, trust me man I went from drilling in a screw slow to warp speed and everything between, 5 hours left no rpm unreached. I'm just grateful I wasn't holding the receiver between my legs like I did for a short while before thinking better of it, what a pretty mess that would have been, luckily it was a small target anyways.

[Dullbert 0]

Meh, I bought the same, bought all my tools from Home Depot, one theory I have is don't use lubricant at all, the 1/4 inch bit isn't gonna break very easily and the extra roughness might keep it from forming a perfectly shiny divet too smooth to cut into. Another I had was don't stop till the mofo is done, stopping and repositioning chips off the groove you made going into it initially and smoothes the roughness out making it impenetrable. These are just theories as this is my first convert but that's just my intuition on it.

[oldandslow 3]

Well, after shooting my mouth off, I ran into a new Saiga Friday. One of our active duty Coast Guard members, asked if I would help him convert his Saiga-12.

 

The Russians must have a "uneven" heat treating technique. The rivets and receiver on his gun were the hardest I have ever seen. I was unable to use any of my metal (titanium, cobalt, centering bit) tools to cut through. I had to use my "abrasive tools" (as in grinding wheel and cutting wheel) to grind through.

What normally take me 15 minutes, took me 2 hours.

 

I think I am going to have to invest in some carbide drill bits.

[monkeybear 0]

I drilled though using a hand drill and a set of Black and Decker drill bits I borrowed from work. The 1/4" bit on the rear pins took a few seconds a piece.

 

The plate took freakin forever, I finally just used the quarter inch bit for everything. As for the spot weld I just used an old flat head screw driver and a few firm wacks with my trusty nylon hammer. Really firm.

 

The .223 has the pistol grip nut hole already and the x39 has the mag well dimples. I just gotta figure out how Ima get that pistol grip hole cut out of the x39 and I will be all set to leave it in my safe untill I can afford the trigger groups and furniture.

Edited March 24, 2008 by monkeybear

[aresv 49]

Why not just anneal it with a torch? 60 seconds of heat vs. 1 hour with a Dremel... seems like an easy choice.

[dyi 0]

The long axis pins I just hit with a regular drill bit. Takes about 2 minutes to remove both of them.

 

The trigger guard rivets, I swear by this thing. 5 minutes max:

http://ak-builder.com/ak/modules.php?name=...page&pid=59