Berzerker 0 Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) In the new issue of American Rifleman magazine they have an article with the results of a pole by the readers on the Top 10 Infantry Rifles along side the Top 10 Hunting Rifles: #1 Infantry M1 Garand #2 AK-47 #3 K98 Mauser #4 M16 #5 1853 Enfield Musket #6 Lee-Enfield #7 StG44 Sturmgewehr #8 FN FAL .308 #9 Dryese 1841 "Needle Gun" #10 The Henry "Golden Boy" What do you all think? Edited August 22, 2008 by Berzerker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vujade 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 hopefully we get more ak-47 articles. =) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. Edited August 23, 2008 by 152dbs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 If it is a poll then I supose it is fairly subjective and top obviously depends largely on what criteria one uses. I will say that if I were to go in to battle I would rather have a FAL or a M16 than a K98. I certainly wouldn't want a musket. That said top could mean vis a vis the other rifles of its era etc. It is hard to make a list like that or vote on it unless there is consesus on the criteria. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Give me a break, the Garand could have been a truly great weapon if it had a box magazine! That stupid top loading thing is nuts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Give me a break, the Garand could have been a truly great weapon if it had a box magazine! That stupid top loading thing is nuts. hence the birth of the M14..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 I think the editors voted for the order that appeared in the main article but they had a chart where they held an online poll and the ak ended up second as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
muttman2 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) did any body get a servey or vote on a list? this might be a "we will tell you what to think" just like the top 10 battel rifles on the mil. chanel and placing the enfild on the list over the mosion nagunt. muttman2 Edited August 23, 2008 by muttman2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. Errr, the Thompson is not a rifle, it is a sub machine gun... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. Errr, the Thompson is not a rifle, it is a sub machine gun... err..some are also referred to as carbines.... so ur saying a M1 carbine isnt a rifle? the stg44 was a 7.92x33 ... pretty small round...basically a .30 caliber. Edited August 23, 2008 by 152dbs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shellshock1918 1 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Give me a break, the Garand could have been a truly great weapon if it had a box magazine! That stupid top loading thing is nuts. Even the box loading semi-autos at the time loaded "from the top" via stripper clips. The Garand is an excellent rifle but it should not have been first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. Errr, the Thompson is not a rifle, it is a sub machine gun... err..some are also referred to as carbines.... so ur saying a M1 carbine isnt a rifle? the stg44 was a 7.92x33 ... pretty small round...basically a .30 caliber. An Infantry rifle would be in a rifle caliber. I am sure that when you think about it you realize that .45 ACP does not qualify. I am not ragging on you. I like the Thompson SMG myself. But, it is not a rifle. Edited August 23, 2008 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. Errr, the Thompson is not a rifle, it is a sub machine gun... err..some are also referred to as carbines.... so ur saying a M1 carbine isnt a rifle? the stg44 was a 7.92x33 ... pretty small round...basically a .30 caliber. An Infantry rifle would be in a rifle caliber. I am sure that when you think about it you realize that .45 ACP does not qualify. I am not ragging on you. I like the Thompson SMG myself. But, it is not a rifle. i see ur angle, just kinda view the stg44 and the tommygun in the same class. both were support carbines. the only things that put the stg ahead of its time was capacity and size. the k98 was still the main issue rifle iirc. and if ur basing it merely on caliber, i can point at pistols that are in rifle caliber. take the last sentence in pure tounge and cheek. had to let out some sarcasm. but i think the article was based on military rifles that had an impact on later rifles. prob why the M14 didnt make it... and the tommygun almost was a "never was" it was saddled b/t the 2 wars. Edited August 23, 2008 by 152dbs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 Hey, I have a M1A! I was not happy to see it fail to be included either. But, that is the nature of these stupid lists, no one is happy with them. As the M14 is in use in war again, maybe it will make the next list? How many rifles that old have been called back into service?!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 the M1-D garand (i believe thats the sniper version) was used in vietnam...i think thats what i heard.... imo its easy to see why the ak was above the ar....the ak is about 20 years older and still more reliable. if youre planning on debating me...ask our GIs why they picked up aks during vietnam. what do u expect when a firearm is made by mattel and ibm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 They did it by generation. FAL > M14 in use. All the M14 ever did was fail, we all know that. Sure it's been called back, but there are rifles that never left and were used longer. I mean, I love the M14, it's such a fantastic gun, and who wouldn't want to own one? But it came in after one war, and got replaced in the next because it was ill fit to the new war. KAR98 > 1903 because shitty armies still use the KAR98. The 1903 and a shitton of modern hunting bolts are just KAR ripoffs. The kind of armies that use leftover AK's still use 98k's, and the KAR98s can be up to 49 years older! The Garand > everything because there were so many made and it kicked SO MUCH ASS. Did you guys forget that WW2 was like the hugest war ever a billion times over? I completely agree with it being #1. The only way any rifle could even pretend to compete with the Garand is if it was also used in WW2, and then it would have to be superior, issued in larger numbers, and have a bigger effect. No gun did that, end of story. The only thing I'm shocked by is not including the M-1 carbine, and that's because it uses a pistol bullet (that no pistol uses). There were more of those made than any other gun during ww2. Look that one up, I didn't believe it when I read it. I don't know why it's considered a pistol bullet though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 the M1-D garand (i believe thats the sniper version) was used in vietnam...i think thats what i heard.... imo its easy to see why the ak was above the ar....the ak is about 20 years older and still more reliable. if youre planning on debating me...ask our GIs why they picked up aks during vietnam. what do u expect when a firearm is made by mattel and ibm. The M1-D was/is horrible. The bedding dried and cracked, leaving the rifle worse for accuracy than a standard Garand. It's the only failure story I know of with sniper rifles, although the french probably have a good one. There were scoped M-14's used in Vietnam as well, as well as scoped 1903's. Oh, and that's when practically off-the-shelf hunting rifles were brought back for military use as well (like are used today). They did that back in WWI as well, for a different reason (supply). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 23, 2008 Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 They did it by generation. if its by generation as u say then why was the STG and the k98 on there together...same generation. but the generation part makes sense b/c the m1 garand was on there and the carbine was not. i agree about the M1D, it didnt do as well as planned, thats why snipers began using model 70s and 700s. if you go by what shitty armies use, then the nagant and arisaka should be considered as well. and the smle should be as well.... everybody has a general list in there head of what should be where...and no one will have the same order, we can just be happy an american icon like the garand was #1 and the ak was 2nd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 The STG probably shouldn't have been on there IMO. The nagant and arisaka are better candidates for a top 10 slot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berzerker 0 Posted August 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. This was supposed to have been a readers poll in National Rifleman. As for the 03 Springfield, it was basically a K98 knock off, the M14/M-1A is a developement of the M1 and the Tommy Gun was a sub gun using pistol calibre ammo. Also the M1 carbine was supposed to have been a replacement weapon for soldiers that normally use a .45 1911. Of course Airborne infantry used the hell out of them. Its always great to get opinions on stuff we all like huh... Edited August 24, 2008 by Berzerker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) The STG probably shouldn't have been on there IMO. The nagant and arisaka are better candidates for a top 10 slot.I think the stg makes it due to the fact it was the beginning of change, intermediate powered rifle with high capcity, and select fire, thus a departure from the bolt actions and even semi autos of the past, and the pointer to the future. Just comments on that thought. Edited August 24, 2008 by okie shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
152dbs 0 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) The STG probably shouldn't have been on there IMO. The nagant and arisaka are better candidates for a top 10 slot.I think the stg makes it due to the fact it was the beginning of change, intermediate powered rifle with high capcity, and select fire, thus a departure from the bolt actions and even semi autos of the past, and the pointer to the future. Just comments on that thought. i agreed it was a revolutionary firearm. if it said Top 10 Military Firearms, id be all for it...prob higher on the list. i think the stg44, m1 carbine, and the tommygun are in the same class. as well as the grease gun, the burp gun, and a few others that slip my mind. btw i did some "research" on the needle gun since i never heard of it....that thing fired a beast of a round, a 15.4mm projectile, bigger than a .50 cal.... Edited August 24, 2008 by 152dbs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 The STG probably shouldn't have been on there IMO. The nagant and arisaka are better candidates for a top 10 slot.I think the stg makes it due to the fact it was the beginning of change, intermediate powered rifle with high capcity, and select fire, thus a departure from the bolt actions and even semi autos of the past, and the pointer to the future. Just comments on that thought. I agree that it was revolutionary, very revolutionary. Too bad nobody ever used it for anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 I'm curious to see who the people are that took that "pole".....who picks musket? come on Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kg4chm 0 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Well, here is my opinion. But you know what they say.....opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. The Garand is a great rifle but as someone already mentioned it doesnt have a box mag, thus the introduction of the M-14 which I really like and am surprised its not on the list. The musket doesnt need to be on there. The AK-47 is THE most widely used combat rifle in the world, very reliable and has been in use since the early '50's. It should probably be #1. I feel like the M-16 should be way down on the list, I dont like the M-16 for a combat rifle. AR style rifles are good rifles.......for the intended purpose, combat isnt it. I could probably add more but............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kg4chm 0 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) Ok, I decided that I would add more. I figure I may get flamed a little for my comment on the M-16/M-4/AR and variants but that is how I feel. I know plenty of others that share that feeling. Then again I know some people that have been in combat that disagree, to each his own. Its a fine rifle for varmint hunting and I guess it may be suitable for law enforcement. I suppose that they may be more reliable now than they were when I was in the military, I dont know. That doesnt make up for the lack of balls though. Also I believe the FN FAL should be way higher on the list, maybe #2 or even maybe a tie for #1. In m opinion the FAL is a superior rifle to the M-14 and the M-16. The military should have chosen the FAL over the M-14 as in the long run they would have been better off and the need for the M-16 would not have existed. The FAL is still, like the AK variants, used today. And its been a favorite with mercs.............you know those guys like top of the line stuff. Thing evolve over time and combat rifles are no exception. I think the military needs to seriously look into a new rifle for infantry. Actually I have heard that they are. I know there are some new rifles used by the military such as the SCAR but those are not widely used as in infantry. Our boys deserve a better weapon already. Im not saying that the 7.62x51 is the answer, maybe another caliber or maybe even something totally new, but the current 5.56 is a lame round for general combat. Flame away............Im a big boy, I can take it Edited October 10, 2008 by kg4chm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kg4chm 0 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 The STG probably shouldn't have been on there IMO. The nagant and arisaka are better candidates for a top 10 slot. I love Nagants...............damn fine rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lonerider 1 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 Where is the BAR ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shellshock1918 1 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) kinda shocked the Springfield 1903, M-14 (aka M1-A), or the Thompson (tommy gun) wasnt listed. the list is biased on ones personal views...so imo thats the authors top 10. 1, the thompson isn't a rifle. 2, the springfield is terrible when compared to other rifles of the time period. For instance, the other rifle used by the US in WWI was the M1917 Enfield. It was a far better service rifle. 3. the M14 is an incredibly overrated rifle. The FAL and G3 came out around the same time period and were far better battle rifles. The M1 Garand, though a wonderful rifle, should not have been #1. Edited October 10, 2008 by Shellshock1918 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ak addict 0 Posted October 10, 2008 Report Share Posted October 10, 2008 The few shortcomings of the Garand where corrected in the BM-59. A Garand converted to a box magazine and chambered in 7.62x51. IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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