22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 So CMMG has decided to step into the mag-fed, semi-auto 12ga arena with this prototype shown at the SHOT Show. I did some digging, and couldn't find anymore info (not even in CMMG's own sub-forum on Arfcom), but it seems this is a long ways away. Being that the guy says "the finished product will be very different from this <has prototype in hand>", I'm assuming they just fabbed it up for the show, and are nowhere near done with it. At least it looks a hell of a lot better than the USAS-12 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 You're late to the party http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34374&hl= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cliffevans 2 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Nice I want one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Yep, a gas piston design. Some already posted a picture of it here the other day. They have a lot of catching up to do with the Saiga. On the other hand, with the insane price increase of the Saiga, plus not having a 922r issue with the CMMG, it could be whole new ballgame. If CMMG was smart they would talk to Surefire, MDARMs and AGP and try to build their new gun so that existing mags could be tweaked for function. However, they will most likely come up with some proprietary BS that they hope will insure that the buyer will be stuck for life with overpriced factory mags, ala Apple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 You're late to the party http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34374&hl= Cleverly hidden in the Competitor's Corner. I don't make it in there too often . Yep, a gas piston design. Some already posted a picture of it here the other day. They have a lot of catching up to do with the Saiga. On the other hand, with the insane price increase of the Saiga, plus not having a 922r issue with the CMMG, it could be whole new ballgame. If CMMG was smart they would talk to Surefire, MDARMs and AGP and try to build their new gun so that existing mags could be tweaked for function. However, they will most likely come up with some proprietary BS that they hope will insure that the buyer will be stuck for life with overpriced factory mags, ala Apple. Mag interchangeability would be great, but I agree, somewhat unlikely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Nobody putting up money for a design nowadays wants to allow the use of somebody else's mags. It sucks. And this is a specialy AR, so I'm figuring it'll go for like $2000. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Nobody putting up money for a design nowadays wants to allow the use of somebody else's mags. It sucks. And this is a specialy AR, so I'm figuring it'll go for like $2000. Which is why it took me many, many years to buy a Saiga. A semi-auto box mag fed shotgun, without a supply of mags, is pointless. The mag is the hardest thing to get right in most any design, which is why many firearms use a proven mag design. The Mac-10 and the Marlin Camp 9 come to mind quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 I bet that a mag from the AR-12 could be put into a Saiga with a Magwell if the magwell was designed right. If this shotgun is $1000 or less, I'll buy one. There are many people who say that one of the downfalls of the Saiga is that it's too expensive ($600) so they'll stick with their Benellis and Barettas and Winchesters, etc. But I bet they all jump on the AR-12 bandwagon even though it will be in the $1200-$2000 price range. At least then we'd have Open and Tactical S-12 divisions instead of it all being OPEN. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hmm, i'd need to see more, but there is HUGE potential for this type of weapon due to prices/availability of S-12's. But being the way it is, I doubt it'll be AK "truck tuff" like the S-12, more like the finicky AR's in performance and rugged reliability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
motoguy 1 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm curious what this design would offer over the S12. I've got an AR, and another build coming along. I like the fact that the AR is an accurate semi-auto, the modular design allows you to swap between configurations quickly (M4 to 24" heavy barrel varmit beater), etc. I don't like the messier gas system, or the fact that it requires more cleaning than an AK. The AK, while not terribly accurate, is still "accurate enough" for a man-sized object. The 7.62 will punch through "stuff" better than the 5.56, and it's reliability is legendary. The S12 seems to be a great blend. IMO, a shotgun is a short-range weapon (or at least it is for me). As such, any AR-style accuracy is wasted. AK-accuracy is more than plenty. The S12 gives me a pistol grip (which I like), magazine fed (which I like), and the ability to repeatedly discharge in a rapid fashion. Great combo. An AR based platform won't necessarily improve accuracy, since it's round-specific, it won't be as modular, the gas system is changed to piston, and it's hella costly. I guess I just don't see the benefit (to me) over the S12, and would love to get some additional input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I did manage to get my hands on the AR-12 model in the CMMG booth at the show. They told me "At least" a year off. Interestingly enough the little bugger has a S-12 barrel.............feels good........but a lot of machine work on this one has got to run the price up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 and is it AR or AK type of action??????? I am sorry boys, but you can take that piston in the stock and shove it.....Ill take the AKM pattern ANY day, MOA or not. you dont ACTUALLY think im going to take the gun apart in the field, as a tastey animal is running by, or someone is shooting at me, over a gun i can just COCK AGAIN, do you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I've been avoiding the St Louis shows lately mainly because they suck, but CMMG is pretty near by and always has a large table set up, so I might make it a point to hit the next one and see if it's available to look at. The video stated propriatary mag and I'd ALMOST bet my nuts if CMMG makes it, quality will be high and price won't be under $2000. I can't recall for sure, but I'm thinking the 9mm I bought from them was around $1700 and this 12ga looks like a whole different animal than your typical AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 There isn't going to be any of the accuracy inherent from the AR-15 design. I bet $100 that they deleted the 8 locking lugs due to size restraints and are using a completely propriety bolt and carrier that lock AK fashion. There will be an arguably better FCG thanks to the AR, but that's about it. You could probably put on a nice 2 stage match trigger for it, hahahahaha. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakal 10 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I talked with CMMG yesterday, as I was setting up my dealer account with them. The "AR" shotgun at the SHOT show was a prototype with Saiga innards. They are turning out serial numbered lowers as fast as they can (as to have a supply for the eventual ban)...incidently, the shotgun lowers are the same size as their .338 Lapua lowers The sticking point, as explained to me, is getting BATFE approval. They were going to use Saiga magazines (duh), but said that with the easy availabilty of 20-round drums, the BATFE would not approve their shotgun if it took Saiga pattern ammunition feeding devices. Their anticipated price point is $1,200. Back to the drawing board (for me)...Fred and I have been kicking around a new Saiga receiver that takes AR pattern lockwork (and furniture) as a "retrofit" to existing Saigas. We had put it on hold after the CMMG prototype surfaced (because we are lazy and only too happy to let someone else have all the fun and get all the glory; we just want to shoot stuff!), but now it seems that it may be viable again. Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 wierd how many gun companies are releasing stuff in a year or so type timeline. by then, we might not be able to buy them.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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