Bvamp 604 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 I hear what you are saying. I just dont see where it is that you can TRANSFER instate through the mail. Thats the little grey part I dont like. The only thing I remotely see that states that word for word is under curio and relics holders. I will agree with you right straight off if you show me the part that says you can transfer as private individual by use of mail carrier. I will note that they say SELL and SHIP with instate and out of state in various ways, but I note that I do NOT see transfer via mail carrier any place. If you dont know the person, there is the little matter of you knowing they are legally allowed to possess said firearm and receive it. The obvious question would be how do you know that? Did you do a background check on this person you dont know? Its not like they walked up to you in person at a flea market table where you are selling "your private collection" off and you IDd the person. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 I hear what you are saying. I just dont see where it is that you can TRANSFER instate through the mail. I will agree with you right straight off if you show me the part that says you can transfer as private individual by use of mail carrier. I will note that they say SELL and SHIP with instate and out of state in various ways, but I note that I do NOT see transfer via mail carrier any place. (B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. If you dont know the person, there is the little matter of you knowing they are legally allowed to possess said firearm and receive it. The obvious question would be how do you know that? Did you do a background check on this person you dont know? Its not like they walked up to you in person at a flea market table where you are selling "your private collection" off and you IDd the person. That is a question that is ultimately up to you. As a private citizen, their word they are not prohibited is sufficient. You (as a private citizen) are only prohibited from selling to "known prohibited persons". Is this method for everyone? Nope. Just like open carry in the states that allow it - not everyone open carries that owns a handgun. The law is what it is, and I'm just trying to get rid of the ignorance present. I'm not leading anyone into Sodom and Gomorroh, just opening up folks' eyes as to their rights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
runofthemill 0 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 In Texas, if you have a CCW, no call is made. Just the 4473 is filled out, cash is exchanged and off you go. True for Kentucky as well. They just record your license number on the form and off you go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 show me this transfer via proxy/mail carrier shit. I have been. Let me link them again: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34686&hl= Nowhere have I said anyone should do this. Nowhere. I am simply showing you guys the law. You can do as you wish. Would I just send a fiream to some joker who just joined the forum 2 days ago? HELL NO Long time fellow Texan members of the forum that I've met? Sure, and I have. Federal law sees no difference between a face-to-face private sale or a mailed/UPS's private sale, so long as it INSIDE THE STATE, BETWEEN SAME-STATE RESIDENTS. That is what B7 is telling you in black and f*****g white. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says: B9 May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31] B May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service? [back] A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Edited February 15, 2009 by ReverendFranz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Nalioth, Are you responding to this just to show people how persistant of an asshole you can be. LIKE I ASKED THE FIRST F****IN' TIME....................... IS THERE A CASH AND CARRY STATE? I NEVER SAID A FRIGGIN' WORD ABOUT CALIFORNIA. YOU GET ON HERE AND ACT LIKE A LUNATIC SCREAMING ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO READ THE LAW AND YOU CAN'T EVEN READ THE OP. GO AWAY SO I CAN GET MY QUESTION ANSWERED BY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP!!!! 1911, Wheel, Bounce and all of those that helped, Thanks. My brother in law's buddy told me that you can walk into a gun shop in some states and buy a gun/any gun without any paperwork, like you were buying a candybar. When I see him next, I wanted to be able to intelligently argue that although he might be correct in some ways, there is some paperwork involved. I was hoping you guys could give me the correct information. This all started because I told him there was a gun I wanted, but it was illegal in CA. He responded by telling me to drive to Arizona and buy a gun over the counter. Thanks again Darin Edited February 15, 2009 by hallboss Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bounce12 407 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I think your best bet is to buy it from a private owner. Nobody has to know nuthin'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Nalioth,Are you responding to this just to show people how persistant of an asshole you can be. LIKE I ASKED THE FIRST F****IN' TIME....................... IS THERE A CASH AND CARRY STATE? I NEVER SAID A FRIGGIN' WORD ABOUT CALIFORNIA. YOU GET ON HERE AND ACT LIKE A LUNATIC SCREAMING ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO READ THE LAW AND YOU CAN'T EVEN READ THE OP. GO AWAY SO I CAN GET MY QUESTION ANSWERED BY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP!!!! 1911, Wheel, Bounce and all of those that helped, Thanks. My brother in law's buddy told me that you can walk into a gun shop in some states and buy a gun/any gun without any paperwork, like you were buying a candybar. When I see him next, I wanted to be able to intelligently argue that although he might be correct in some ways, there is some paperwork involved. I was hoping you guys could give me the correct information. This all started because I told him there was a gun I wanted, but it was illegal in CA. He responded by telling me to drive to Arizona and buy a gun over the counter. Thanks again Darin Well. last time I looked, this was a discussion forum. You started the thread with an unusual question and so it began. Folks responded. Other folks responded. Discussion ensued. I believe I've answered your question indirectly several times. As far as "asshole", that is debatable, but we have Fight Club if you feel your panties got twisted by my responses to folks in your thread. I don't recall calling anyone any names in this thread. ETA: I don't think the managemant here likes folks to advise illegal activities to others, either. Nobody likes a Federal subpoena. Edited February 15, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Not calling names, just calling what I see. I asked a question to the crowd and more specifically I asked YOU a question several times. But intead of answering it, you are more interested in arguing with me and everyone who is trying to help. Every time someone attempts to answer my question, you jump in and start berating them as if they're an idiot. As far as the fight club is concerned, you didn't have any effect on my mood...I just felt that since you treated everyone here like shit, then maybe if I treated you the same way then maybe I could get through to you. My question was simple and you turned it into a federal debate, to me your actions are that of someone acting like an asshole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) In answer to your edit...... No one here is giving advice and the question did not have anything to with an illegal purchase of firearms. Worst case scenario, someone tells someone you can buy a gun a Texas without paper. Well when he shows up and that is wrong, then it was a wasted trip. How does that create a federal subpeona. Go back outside and check if the black choppers are hovering above your house. Edited February 15, 2009 by hallboss Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Not calling names, just calling what I see. I asked a question to the crowd and more specifically I asked YOU a question several times. But intead of answering it, you are more interested in arguing with me and everyone who is trying to help. Every time someone attempts to answer my question, you jump in and start berating them as if they're an idiot. As far as the fight club is concerned, you didn't have any effect on my mood...I just felt that since you treated everyone here like shit, then maybe if I treated you the same way then maybe I could get through to you. My question was simple and you turned it into a federal debate, to me your actions are that of someone acting like an asshole. Your question invites a Federal debate. It is illegal for a California resident to buy any firearm 'across the counter" or from a private seller anywhere in the USA. If a California resident travels to Arizona and "buys directly from a private seller" (where nobody knows nothin'), they are committing a federal crime. Can I be any more blunt? Edited February 15, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 You just don't get it. I'm sorry that no one here including myself can speak in a language that is easy for you to understand. This conversation, has nothing to do with nor has it ever had anything to do with California, it was about if there was a state in this country that you can do what I asked. Hey I thought you were capable of abstract thought and I guess I was wrong, I won't make that mistake again. So please do me a favor and go somewhere else and don't get your fingers anymore dirty with this thread, I was just told by some people at area 51 they were assembling the Grand Jury for all the people who responded to this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Has it occured to you that I was answering other folk's questions, too? "Ask a better question, get a better answer". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bounce12 407 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I was just told by some people at area 51 they were assembling the Grand Jury for all the people who responded to this thread. LOL! Hilarious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Has it occured to you that I was answering other folk's questions, too? "Ask a better question, get a better answer". This is the last time I am dignifying your idiotic existance in this thread with any type of response........ You weren't answering questions, you were arguing that you are smarter than anyone who gave a response only by skewing the point of this question until it fit you lunatic self loathing agenda. All just to appear a little less of a psychotic control freak. I would say there is a better way to answer the questions that people have and present opposition to their arguments other than to belittle them and skew the conversation, but hey I bet you've heard that before....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 GO TO FISTS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jangles 2 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Is there any states left that you can buy any type of firearm and leave with it, without registering it. I've got a guy telling me that in Oklahoma and Arizona you can walk in and buy handguns without registration or a waiting period. My BS meter is going into the red. NO, there is no place that you can just go and buy a gun from a gun store or pawn shop without filling out paper work. Again the answer is NO! You should know this as per your Profile where it say and I copied from there............................................................... "If you have any questions in regards to CA law, I'll try to help. I am not an authority, but I did spend several years enforcing it. I still have connections with DOJ, ATF, and other agencies. If you ask me a question, I won't BS you, I'll try to answer the best I can" Are you fishing for someone to do something illegal so you or your buddies can bust them??? Also one thing is being left out here and that is, when you as a private citizen SELL a firearm FEDERAL law mandates that you must keep a record of who, when and serial number for a certain amount of time. I forget what it is but I keep them for 10 years. Hope this helps some. jangles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Oh are you just a little pissed because I called your pussy out when you slammed KA. Well there is a difference when it comes to CA penal code and federal gun transfers you f-in pussy. At least Nalioth fought like a man and didn't jump in on someone else's fight. Edited February 16, 2009 by hallboss Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 GO TO FISTS! It's been awhile since you've said this. You've been slacking! Also one thing is being left out here and that is, when you as a private citizen SELL a firearm FEDERAL law mandates that you must keep a record of who, when and serial number for a certain amount of time. Got any links/info that says that? I've never heard of any requirements as far as record keeping, when privately selling a firearm, to a private buyer. I'd be interested in reading it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 didn't read the whole thread so if this is duplicitous info sorry. Montana has a bill that passed the house that if the arm is made in Montana for use in Montana they will not do the NCIS or give any info to the feds. Interesting huh? I hope it passes their senate and gets signed. Those guys up their have been thumbing their noses at Washington concerning arms rights. They had a resolution threatening secession if the supreme court did not rule properly in the Heller case. So soon in Montana under specific sales you might just walk in, walk out with no extra paperwork. I am sure others pointed out in face to face sales in some states like mine, Georgia, the state or feds do not get involved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Thanks for the info Rocinante, basically before this turned into a free for all I was asking if there was a state in the nation where you could walk in a buy a gun without any paperwork. This all stemmed from a friend of my brother in laws' when he stated that you could cross the border and buy anything you want without anyone knowing about it. I argued that wasn't true with all legal (federal and state laws) reasons aside, if....lets say someone from CA went to AZ and attempted to buy any type of gun, as soon as they asked for your ID and saw you were from CA, they would send you packing. He replied that, "No, as long as you look over 18, you can buy whatever you want and leave with it. No questions asked." I told him he was full of it, however neither of us cold prove the other wrong. All of my experience is in CA penal, vehicle and some other CA specific codes and not in other states gun laws nor the Federal gun registration laws/requirements. I was looking for some info to show this guy where he was wrong, if he was in fact wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 lets say someone from CA went to AZ and attempted to buy any type of gun, as soon as they asked for your ID and saw you were from CA, they would send you packing. I don't know since CA is in the sentence but normally they will sell you the gun but have to ship it to an FFL in your home state. You can't walk out the door with it unless you are a resident of the state. With all the weird state laws added to the top of that scenario I can't swear but I was going to buy a gun in SC and they were cool with shipping it to GA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hallboss 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah that is what I was trying to figure out, so I could argue there is no way to travel into another state, buy a gun and walk out the door if you are not a resident of that state. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 There is no LEGAL way to buy a gun and walk out the door without paperwork or NICS check. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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