Question about the new 5.45

[Salmonking 149]

I've been told that Arsenal Inc.'s new model, the SGL 31 If far superior to a converted Saiga 5.45 rifle.

 

When I had asked how the SGL 31 would be superior to a converted Saiga, I was met with the response that the parts were of higher quality (being made in the US), and the overall conversion of said rifle was simply better assembled than a converted Saiga.

 

So gentlemen, my question to you is; Is this just hype, or a well founded argument?

[Bvamp 604]

Its hype. I cant speak about the other builders now, but I can say that the man I work for is one of the best gunsmiths in the USA, if not the world, so.....I gotta call bullshit on this one

 

you get what you pay for, and that isnt just in the amount of work, but is also the quality of the work, as well as the customer service involved.

 

....and being the sole warranty repair center for RAAC, well, anything we send out, stock or conversion, WILL work just fine when you get it, as we do not want to work on it again!

 

another point is, with any conversion, you have to comply with the law and use US made parts to do the conversion.

[redsoldier 7]

I have n SGL-31. It is an amzing gun, and I've seen come "converted" 5.45 SAIGAS out there that I wouldnt touch for free - THere are some finer point sI'd like to amke though.

 

1). with the SGL, you're going to get the typical crappy paint finish. Expect it to rub/wash off. Some builders will use a muhc bettter finish, others will also use paint. so in this regard, a builders gun could be better

 

2). The Arsenal uses Bulgarian and Russian parts, along with the USA compliance parts. A builders gun will have to use the same compliance parts, but all other parts are up to thier discretion - there is a possibility that the builders gun could be worse depending upon what parts they use

 

3). The SGL-31 is fixed stock. period. A Builder cna make a folder for you, and for some this is a big deal. Again, quality of the folder can vary, depending upon the builder.

 

 

In Short, The SGL is a great rifle with a crappy finish and a fixed stock. A quality builder will build you a quality gun that is better than the SGL, no doubt. A crappy builder will ruin your gun and it won't be as nice as the SGL. So - if you want to convert a SAIGA then choose a good quality builder. Like all things in life 9 times out of 10 you get exactly what you pay for.

[Azrial 1,091]

I've been told that Arsenal Inc.'s new model, the SGL 31 If far superior to a converted Saiga 5.45 rifle.

.... So gentlemen, my question to you is; Is this just hype, or a well founded argument?

 

The more I examine and read about Arsenal Inc. guns, the more the whole line looks like nothing but a bunch of hype. I have never owned one, but I have fired a few and looked over many. I have been consistently underwhelmed.

 

SOPMOD has a good thread here on the problems he has had with his and I respect the fact that he is someone that owns one. The only criteria that most people have for a firearm to the be "the best in the world," is that they own one.

 

I would much prefer a gun hand built by a small builder like CGW or even a meticulous home hobbyist to getting ripped off by them for substandard work.

[Salmonking 149]

I appreciate all the great advice gentlemen. Thanks for being straightforward with me and be sure to have a good one!

 

Edit: Oh, also, I live around Orlando, Florida and I've hear some. . . interesting things about Diavlo Arms through the forums. Do you think It'd be a wise investment to sent my babies to them, or should I choose one of the more reputable stores on this site? If so, do you have any suggestions?

Edited August 28, 2009 by Salmonking

[Bvamp 604]

salmonking, you should try to make the shoot at myakka city on nov 21st. there is an ongoing thread about it in the general section.

 

Of course I would have to suggest my own company for conversion work, but we do have a several month wait currently.

[elvis christ 451]

I appreciate all the great advice gentlemen. Thanks for being straightforward with me and be sure to have a good one!

 

Edit: Oh, also, I live around Orlando, Florida and I've hear some. . . interesting things about Diavlo Arms through the forums. Do you think It'd be a wise investment to sent my babies to them, or should I choose one of the more reputable stores on this site? If so, do you have any suggestions?

 

Aside from the negative feedback concerning Diavolo Arms, the guy's failure to respond in any fashion speaks volumes for the risk you run getting involved with the company. I would most certainly not send them anything.

[aresv 49]

When I had asked how the SGL 31 would be superior to a converted Saiga,

 

The Arsenal IS a converted Saiga. It all comes down to the parts and workmanship. Anybody with a pile of the same parts that Arsenal uses could built the same thing. Given Arsenal's shitty track record, anybody with talent could build something better than Arsenal.

[Krom 36]

Hype hype hype... good weapons but not for the money. Go with a good custom build, or do it yourself.

[ThirtyCal 0]

When I had asked how the SGL 31 would be superior to a converted Saiga,

 

The Arsenal IS a converted Saiga. It all comes down to the parts and workmanship. Anybody with a pile of the same parts that Arsenal uses could built the same thing. Given Arsenal's shitty track record, anybody with talent could build something better than Arsenal.

 

Full disclosure here guys: I've purchased an SGL-31, and also own a full meal deal Saiga AK-103 conversion (see here).

 

There's a big difference between an SGL-31 and the rifle in the link above... The truth is that the SGL-31 is better. The reason is because it is almost entirely Russian, and was almost entirely assembled at the Izhmash factory by real Russians. In most respects, it is an actual AK-74M. The AK-103 that I built may look authetic, but it's just a replica.

 

The SGL-31 is virtually all Russian, including the gas block and front sight block. This was not true for the previous Arsenal SGL-20 (which used a Bulgarian front sight block like I did on my AK-103).

 

But what's more important is that the SGL-31 was almost entirely assembled at the Izhmash factory. This is pretty remarkable...Even the bullet guide appears to be factory riveted.

 

From what I can tell, the only operations that Arsenal performs on these rifles is to rivet on a trigger guard (which is done masterfully), press on the threaded Russian front sight block, and install a 922r compliant Arsenal FCG, and US made Arsenal pistol grip and buttstock. That's it. Everything else was done at the Izhmash factory using the same machinery that assembles modern AK-74M's.

 

So I hope it's clear that no matter what Arsenal's track record is, there's really just not much on an SGL-31 that Arsenal could screw up. It's pretty much foolproof - I believe that if you find an SGl-31 that has a problem, then it's likely that the problem came from the Izhmash factory, not Arsenal. Perhaps the only exception is the finish, which unfortunately Arsenal applies over the top of the existing Saiga due to the addition of the trigger guard. The finish does in fact suck.

 

I've never owned an Aresenal rifle before this, and probably never will own another... But the fact remains that so far, the SGL-31 is a unique beast. I am not aware of any other rifle currently available that is a more authentic representation of a modern Izhmash Kalasnikov rifle. The only thing that needs to be added to make it a nearly perfect 922r-compliant copy of an AK-74M is a Russian 5.5mm folding stock, Russian handguards, and the punch-press dimples on the barrel fixtures.

 

If I were Arsenal, I would never say that the SGL-31 is "far superior" to a converted 5.45 Saiga (as mentioned by the original poster). That expression isn't really appropriate. The correct thing to say is that the SGL-31 is "far more authentic" than a converted 5.45 Saiga. For many people, authenticity doesn't matter. But for a few, it matters a whole bunch - and it's for those few that the SGl-31 was imported.

 

By the way, I'm converting my SGL-31 to an AK-105. I need some kind of a challenge.

 

-Thirtycal

Edited August 29, 2009 by ThirtyCal

[nalioth 405]

There's a big difference between an SGL-31 and the rifle in the link above... The truth is that the SGL-31 is better. The reason is because it is almost entirely Russian, and was almost entirely assembled at the Izhmash factory. In most respects, it is an actual AK-74M. The AK-103 that I built may look authetic, but it's just a replica.

 

<snip>

 

But what's more important is that the SGL-31 was almost entirely assembled at the Izhmash factory. This is a first for Arsenal and Saiga, and is pretty remarkable...Even the bullet guide is factory riveted which until now, has never been seen on any Izhmash/Saiga/Legion rifle imported into the US (that I am aware of).

If "almost entirely" means "almost everything forward of the barrel trunnion - you are correct.

 

These rifles are imported as any other Saiga is - restricted to factory 10 round magazines.

 

The bullet guides are "factory riveted" in a Las Vegas, Nevada factory, sure.

 

The truth is, the only operations that Arsenal performs on these rifles is to rivet on a trigger guard (which is done masterfully), press on the threaded Russian front sight block, and install a 922r compliant Arsenal FCG, and US made Arsenal pistol grip and buttstock. That's it. Everything else was done at the Izhmash factory using the same machinery that assembles modern AK-74M's.

Not quite. As noted above, the bullet guide goes in here in the USA.

 

<snip>I am not aware of any other rifle currently available that is a more authentic representation of a modern Izhmash Kalasnikov rifle.

You've been brainwashed, then. You are now handing out the same drivel that makes folks slap a fixed stock on their 7.62x39 Saigas and call it a "AK-103" clone.

 

The "modern Izhmash Kalashnikov" has had a side folding stock since the '80s. How long do we have to wait around for this fact to set in?

[redsoldier 7]

The "modern Izhmash Kalashnikov" has had a side folding stock since the '80s. How long do we have to wait around for this fact to set in?

 

To be 100% correct, only the AKS-74, AK-74M, and AK-100 series all have factory folding stocks. The AKS-74 was produced WITH the standard AK-74 for quite some time. So ALL AK's having folding stocks wasn't true untill the introduction of the AK-74M, which replaced BOTH the AKS-74 and AK-74 in service.

 

Also, I have a 5,45 SGL as well, and I love it. I did send it out to have a triangle folder put on it though. Should have it back this coming week? can post pictures then.

[ThirtyCal 0]

Sorry folks on this forum...With an astounding 4500+ posts here, obviously I've wandered into Nalioth's backyard. But rather than leave a steaming pile of dung on his lawn (in the form of a pointless argument), I'll just suggest that perhaps there are others here, not quite so vocal, who may actually have good information. I'll leave it up to the readers of this thread to sort that out for themselves.

 

But one question Nalioth; Do you have a photo of a Russian AK-74M factory bullet guide and rivet, and have you compared it directly to the BG rivet in the SGL-31? Just curious because I have, and very carefully at that... And beyond any doubt, the bullet guides and rivets are identical. Not merely similar; identical. and in my experience (having actually riveted Saiga bullet guides myself) the only way the rivets could be identically formed is if the rivets were set before the trunnions were installed in the receiver, which is without question the way the factory does it.

 

The observable evidence tells the story: It would be a very difficult task for Arsenal to pull the barrel, demill the front trunnion (including the so-called "third rivet" bolt post) without so much as a scratch on the receiver surface or gall mark on the extracted barrel, set the BG rivet, reinstall the front trunnion with perfect Russian swell-neck rivets, reinstall a new "third rivet", re-install the barrel, and headspace the chamber. That amount of work wouldn't make sense from any viewpoint, but particularly not from a financial viewpoint (the cost of that labor would be prohibitively expensive per-rifle).

 

But, I do admit that I have no proof other than what I can observe on the rifle and in photos... so if you have verifiable proof that somehow refutes what I've said, please fill us in on the source of your information. Maybe it's possible you are employed at the Arsenal Las Vegas factory and I stupidly just don't know that?

 

Sorry for stepping in your backyard, but please proceed with your extraordinarily high post count.

 

-Thirtycal

[ThirtyCal 0]

<snip>I am not aware of any other rifle currently available that is a more authentic representation of a modern Izhmash Kalasnikov rifle.

You've been brainwashed, then. You are now handing out the same drivel that makes folks slap a fixed stock on their 7.62x39 Saigas and call it a "AK-103" clone.

 

The "modern Izhmash Kalashnikov" has had a side folding stock since the '80s. How long do we have to wait around for this fact to set in?

 

You may not have read all of my post (yes I know it was long). I very clearly said that the only thing keeping the SGL-31 from being a near perfect AK-74M replica is the 5.5mm folding stock. Actually what I said was:

 

"The only thing that needs to be added to make it a nearly perfect 922r-compliant copy of an AK-74M is a Russian 5.5mm folding stock, Russian handguards, and the punch-press dimples on the barrel fixtures."

 

thanks-

Thirtycal

Edited August 29, 2009 by ThirtyCal

[bigsal 757]

Sorry folks on this forum...With an astounding 4500+ posts here, obviously I've wandered into Nalioth's backyard. But rather than leave a steaming pile of dung on his lawn (in the form of a pointless argument), I'll just suggest that perhaps there are others here, not quite so vocal, who may actually have good information. I'll leave it up to the readers of this thread to sort that out for themselves.

 

But one question Nalioth; Do you have a photo of a Russian AK-74M factory bullet guide and rivet, and have you compared it directly to the BG rivet in the SGL-31? Just curious because I have, and very carefully at that... And beyond any doubt, the bullet guides and rivets are identical. Not merely similar; identical. and in my experience (having actually riveted Saiga bullet guides myself) the only way the rivets could be identically formed is if the rivets were set before the trunnions were installed in the receiver, which is without question the way the factory does it.

 

The observable evidence tells the story: It would be a very difficult task for Arsenal to pull the barrel, demill the front trunnion (including the so-called "third rivet" bolt post) without so much as a scratch on the receiver surface or gall mark on the extracted barrel, set the BG rivet, reinstall the front trunnion with perfect Russian swell-neck rivets, reinstall a new "third rivet", re-install the barrel, and headspace the chamber. That amount of work wouldn't make sense from any viewpoint, but particularly not from a financial viewpoint (the cost of that labor would be prohibitively expensive per-rifle).

 

But, I do admit that I have no proof other than what I can observe on the rifle and in photos... so if you have verifiable proof that somehow refutes what I've said, please fill us in on the source of your information. Maybe it's possible you are employed at the Arsenal Las Vegas factory and I stupidly just don't know that?

 

Sorry for stepping in your backyard, but please proceed with your extraordinarily high post count.

 

-Thirtycal

 

Nalioth has a hatred of arsenal of LV for some reason. I have been on the fence about picking up the 31 until I read your post Thirtycal, I think Ill order one up in the next little bit. Do you off hand know how many were imported to arsenal for resale? Someone said it was under 1000, but you would likely know for sure.

[nalioth 405]

If the rifle can accept and use "non sporting" magazines, it can't be imported.

 

Are you telling me that Arsenal is now importing Saigas that are able to accept and use 30 round milsurps right out of the container (which they would with the referenced bullet guide).

 

They they are above the law, or have bribed someone?

 

The law is the law. How is Arsenal importing "non sporting" Saigas? If they are not held up by the import laws,, why aren't they importing rifles with side folding stocks on them, too?

Edited August 29, 2009 by nalioth

[bigsal 757]

The "modern Izhmash Kalashnikov" has had a side folding stock since the '80s. How long do we have to wait around for this fact to set in?

 

To be 100% correct, only the AKS-74, AK-74M, and AK-100 series all have factory folding stocks. The AKS-74 was produced WITH the standard AK-74 for quite some time. So ALL AK's having folding stocks wasn't true untill the introduction of the AK-74M, which replaced BOTH the AKS-74 and AK-74 in service.

 

Also, I have a 5,45 SGL as well, and I love it. I did send it out to have a triangle folder put on it though. Should have it back this coming week? can post pictures then.

 

 

Red:> your gear allways comes out great! please post asap.

[ThirtyCal 0]

Nalioth has a hatred of arsenal of LV for some reason. I have been on the fence about picking up the 31 until I read your post Thirtycal, I think Ill order one up in the next little bit. Do you off hand know how many were imported to arsenal for resale? Someone said it was under 1000, but you would likely know for sure.

 

 

Thanks for the confidence bigsal - I was on the fence too and was convinced that I was better off buying a Saiga 5.45 for my AK-105 project... So I actually bought all of the parts to do a full AK-105 conversion with a base 5.45 Saiga... but there was so much about the SGL-31 that was "correct" that I just couldn't resist. I'm not a particular fan of Arsenal myself (I've seen plenty of photos of less-than-desirable SLR series Arsenals), but the SGL-31 really isn't an Arsenal rifle so I had no problem plunking down the money for one. It may not be the right choice for everyone, but it's the best choice for me because I want to build a perfect AK-105 replica. I don't care about the crappy Arsenal finish, since I'm going to media blast the whole thing, and parkerize/molyresin it after I've done the 105 conversion work. I'm going to do the correct receiver engraving, which is something I skipped on the AK-103.

 

The import numbers have not been published on any public forums to my knowlege, but I have seen knowledgeable folks on theakforum say there were less than 1000.

 

thanks-

Thirtycal

Edited August 29, 2009 by ThirtyCal

[ThirtyCal 0]

If the rifle can accept and use "non sporting" magazines, it can't be imported.

 

Are you telling me that Arsenal is now importing Saigas that are able to accept and use 30 round milsurps right out of the container (which they would with the referenced bullet guide).

 

They they are above the law, or have bribed someone?

 

The law is the law. How is Arsenal importing "non sporting" Saigas? If they are not held up by the import laws,, why aren't they importing rifles with side folding stocks on them, too?

 

You're asking a very good question, and I don't know the answer. Generally speaking, I don't know how any of these importers figure out what's legal and what's not... All of the BATFE rules I know about (which isn't much beyond 922r) seem arbitrary and inconsistent... so it wouldn't surprise me if clever importers can come up with means to "skirt" the rules which the BATFE ends up allowing simply because they know their rules are arbitrary and inconsistent...

 

I don't have any clue about what Arsenal/K-Var is doing to get these rifles into the country... All I can comment on is what I can physically see, and what I physically see is a factory installed bullet guide.

 

But after some thought, I decided to edit my original post so that whoever reads this thread in the future doesn't get the impression that I know for certain that the bullet guide is factory-riveted on these SGL-31's. I also don't know for sure that the earlier SGL-20's were factory riveted, but they could have been too for all I know. I don't want to be accused of spreading false information so I'll just say that it is my belief that the bullet guide is riveted based on the observable evidence. Perhaps I'll call K-var and directly ask. They might give me an answer!

 

thanks

-Thirtycal

Edited August 29, 2009 by ThirtyCal

[redsoldier 7]

If the rifle can accept and use "non sporting" magazines, it can't be imported.

 

Are you telling me that Arsenal is now importing Saigas that are able to accept and use 30 round milsurps right out of the container (which they would with the referenced bullet guide).

 

They they are above the law, or have bribed someone?

 

The law is the law. How is Arsenal importing "non sporting" Saigas? If they are not held up by the import laws,, why aren't they importing rifles with side folding stocks on them, too?

 

 

OK, I'm calling BS. Big time. That is absolute, utter, ridiculus CRAP.

 

I can remember in the 80's when all teh egyptian guns were imported with lo-cap mags - 10 rounders to eb exact. And do you know what everyone did? they threw it away and promptly inserted a 30 rounder - with no mods at all! And do you know what happned when they later imported Yugo AK's? same thing. And again when they imported VAlmets from Finland? same thing.

 

And for the record, YES the 5,45 SAIGAS will accpt a standard 30 round mag right out of the box. If you buy the SAIGA version then you need ot install a bullet guide. If you buy the SGL then it is factory done IN RUSSIA. But if you don't belive us do your own reserach - call Arsenal yourself.

[Garys4598 1,065]

OK, I'm calling BS. Big time. That is absolute, utter, ridiculus CRAP.

 

. . . .

 

And for the record, YES the 5,45 SAIGAS will accpt a standard 30 round mag right out of the box. If you buy the SAIGA version then you need ot install a bullet guide. . . .

+1 to the above.

 

Last week, after removing my new Saiga IZ-240 (in sporterized configuration from the factory) from its packaging I immediately inserted the four all steel Polish Tantal magazines that I had. All four mags snapped in without so much as a hiccup. They fit terrifically.

 

Can't attest to how well they would feed the ammunition though. Everyone is stating that bullet guides need to be installed in the trunnion of these rifles to ensure positive feeding into the chamber.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Gary

[elvis christ 451]

If the rifle can accept and use "non sporting" magazines, it can't be imported.

 

Are you telling me that Arsenal is now importing Saigas that are able to accept and use 30 round milsurps right out of the container (which they would with the referenced bullet guide).

 

They they are above the law, or have bribed someone?

 

The law is the law. How is Arsenal importing "non sporting" Saigas? If they are not held up by the import laws,, why aren't they importing rifles with side folding stocks on them, too?

 

 

OK, I'm calling BS. Big time. That is absolute, utter, ridiculus CRAP.

 

I can remember in the 80's when all teh egyptian guns were imported with lo-cap mags - 10 rounders to eb exact. And do you know what everyone did? they threw it away and promptly inserted a 30 rounder - with no mods at all! And do you know what happned when they later imported Yugo AK's? same thing. And again when they imported VAlmets from Finland? same thing.

 

And for the record, YES the 5,45 SAIGAS will accpt a standard 30 round mag right out of the box. If you buy the SAIGA version then you need ot install a bullet guide. If you buy the SGL then it is factory done IN RUSSIA. But if you don't belive us do your own reserach - call Arsenal yourself.

 

In the 80's there were no bans on imported rifles in 'non-sporting' configuration. I believe that ban came around in the late late 1980's. This would explain the availability of guns which would readily accept 30 round mags.

[ThirtyCal 0]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to take a shit in this thread. Let's get back to the subject the original poster asked us about.

 

I'll accept that Nalioth may be correct about the non-factory bullet guide and rivet. That actually may be the easiest explanation...

 

...But even with a very masterfully riveted bullet guide performed by Arsenal Las Vegas, the SGL-31 is sill what I (and probably most collectors) would consider to be the most authentic Izhmash-built, military-style Kalashnikov yet imported into the US. I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31.

 

I think this is a safe statement that everyone will agree with.

 

thanks-

Thirtycal

Edited August 29, 2009 by ThirtyCal

[lotsagas4u 0]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to take a shit in this thread. Let's get back to the subject the original poster asked us about.

 

I'll accept that Nalioth may be correct about the non-factory bullet guide and rivet. That actually may be the easiest explanation...

 

...But even with a very masterfully riveted bullet guide performed by Arsenal Las Vegas, the SGL-31 is sill what I (and probably most collectors) would consider to be the most authentic Izhmash-built, military-style Kalashnikov yet imported into the US. I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31.

 

I think this is a safe statement that everyone will agree with.

 

thanks-

Thirtycal

Let me add another interesting tidbit to the fire, anyone happen to notice the Russian 10 round 5.45 magazine that K-var just recently got in? I bet these are what came in with the SGL31 guns. Something to think about anyway.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31...

 

Uh, the SGL-21? It may not have more authentic Izhmash parts, but it has the same number, (closest thing you can buy to an AK-103 in the US).

Edited August 30, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[oldandslow 3]

After seeing ThirtyCal's "home build", I can see where he thinks the SGL-31 is better. He went through a lot of effort to convert a Saiga into what I consider a masterpiece. He knows.

 

I on the other hand prefer the "sporter" 5.45x39 Saiga. Why? Because I am not interested in purchasing a finished gun. I enjoy the conversion. Have to admit though, ThirtyCal's effort is so far beyond mine as to be ridiculous.

 

The completed guns I buy usually interest me for a short time, then they are put away. The project guns interest me for a long time, as I see interesting ideas and redo my projects to incorporate them, shoot them, and do it again.

[ThirtyCal 0]

...I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31...

 

Uh, the SGL-21? It may not have more authentic Izhmash parts, but it has the same number, (closest thing you can buy to an AK-103 in the US).

 

Didn't the 20 and 21 both had a Bulgarian front sight block? I think the only difference between a 20 and a 21 was that the 21 had the intact accessory lug on the Russian gas block - but from the photos I've seen of an SGL-20 and -21, the FSB's are bulgy. The fsb on the SGL-31 is Russian. Visually it's a subtle difference, but still can pretty easily be seen.

 

But yes, other than that, the -31 and the -21 were pretty much as "Russian" as you can get.

 

-Thirtycal

[ThirtyCal 0]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to take a shit in this thread. Let's get back to the subject the original poster asked us about.

 

I'll accept that Nalioth may be correct about the non-factory bullet guide and rivet. That actually may be the easiest explanation...

 

...But even with a very masterfully riveted bullet guide performed by Arsenal Las Vegas, the SGL-31 is sill what I (and probably most collectors) would consider to be the most authentic Izhmash-built, military-style Kalashnikov yet imported into the US. I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31.

 

I think this is a safe statement that everyone will agree with.

 

thanks-

Thirtycal

Let me add another interesting tidbit to the fire, anyone happen to notice the Russian 10 round 5.45 magazine that K-var just recently got in? I bet these are what came in with the SGL31 guns. Something to think about anyway.

 

Yes, and as I understand it the handguards that come on it from the factory are Russian, and they are then replaced with K-var's US-made copies (for 922r compliance). I presume that's why K-var has been able to offer russian black polymer handguards since the SGL-20's starting coming in...

 

So K-var does seem to be re-selling some of the stuff that comes in with these rifles (probably cleaning kits and slings too :-)

 

-Thirtycal

[bigsal 757]

...I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31...

 

Uh, the SGL-21? It may not have more authentic Izhmash parts, but it has the same number, (closest thing you can buy to an AK-103 in the US).

 

Didn't the 20 and 21 both had a Bulgarian front sight block? I think the only difference between a 20 and a 21 was that the 21 had the intact accessory lug on the Russian gas block - but from the photos I've seen of an SGL-20 and -21, the FSB's are bulgy. The fsb on the SGL-31 is Russian. Visually it's a subtle difference, but still can pretty easily be seen.

 

But yes, other than that, the -31 and the -21 were pretty much as "Russian" as you can get.

 

-Thirtycal

 

You are correct. The SGL-10's also had the undesirable Bulgy FSB. I think the 21, with its accessory lug, is still worth owning, but Im gonna get the 31 first due to availability and my current level of grinding poverty....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...I certainly can't think of any other Kalashnikov wearing the Izhevsk Arsesnal "Arrow-in-triangle" stamp that has ever come into the country that has more authentic Izhmash manufactured parts than the SGL-31...

 

Uh, the SGL-21? It may not have more authentic Izhmash parts, but it has the same number, (closest thing you can buy to an AK-103 in the US).

 

Didn't the 20 and 21 both had a Bulgarian front sight block? I think the only difference between a 20 and a 21 was that the 21 had the intact accessory lug on the Russian gas block - but from the photos I've seen of an SGL-20 and -21, the FSB's are bulgy...

 

If you say so. I guess I don't know enough about how the Bulgarian and Russian fsb's differ to be able to easily tell them apart. It does seem odd that they would use a Bulgarian fsb on those rifles though.. since they are basically built by Legion as the SGL-31's are. I thought the only thing Arsenal did to the 20's/21's is replace the furniture, triggerguard, and triggergroup.

Edited August 31, 2009 by post-apocalyptic