docmcb 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) So, I'm a big fan of the 5.45 cartridge, I've got an S&W M&P-15R and a Polish Tantal. When the Saiga 5.45 rifle was recently released, I took a look at the base Saiga IZ-240 and the Arsenal SGL-31. The Arsenal was too rich for my blood, but the whole conversion phenomenon with the Saiga base models piqued my interest. I picked up one and, armed with the various guides available online, I accomplished my own conversion. That's not a new story, it's been done before and you don't need to see that again. However, one of the parts I purchased for this conversion was the TAPCO Saiga front handguard. After I received it, I felt it was too flimsy and I didn't care for the square look of it. I considered the Leapers/UTG Saiga handguard offering, but decided it looked too heavy, had too many rails, and would be a pain in the azz to remove every time for cleaning, which must be done religiously when shooting corrosive ammo. The standard AK looking furniture is cool, but I don't have access to the hydraulic presses and skills to accomplish that, and the bolt on hardware from Dinzag is pricey. On first glance, I didn't care for the style of the Saiga handguard either, but upon removing it and examining it, I was impressed with it's construction. It is made from some pretty strong stuff (fiberglass, phenolic resin, or bakelite - I don't know??) and it has a long reinforcing rib down the center-line and metal molded into it at the front end. I read here about some who have recontoured the shape of the stock Saiga handguard, and I started wonder if I could take the modification of the stock handguard even further. The two things I wanted to accomplish, were to have a bottom rail for a vertical grip and/or light, and I wanted to add some ventilation. I started by locating a generic piece of Picatinny rail, this one in particular is the Leapers/UTG piece they sell for adding to the top of a Mossberg 500 shotgun receiver. I did a mock up of it along the bottom of the stock Saiga handguard and noticed a slight curve in the handguard, but decided to go ahead and let the rail bend slightly when securing it. I used the 4 holes that come drilled in this piece and added one more. I carefully located it along the bottom centerline and drilled 7/64" holes into the handguard and screwed it down with small phillips head screws. On the inside, I ground off the protruding screw shanks, and then I painted the phillips heads black. Although the rail took a slight curve as it tightened down, it doesn't prevent small items like a grip or light from easily attaching, and it is rock solid. Even with the leverage of a vertical broom handle type grip, I couldn't flex it. I mulled over the ventilation idea for a couple days and then back in the shop. I saw somewhere that somebody drilled large holes in the handguard for ventilation, but I wasn't real excitied about that look. I decided to try making slots and so I set up my regular home duty Sears Craftsman router with a harbor freight 1/4' straight bit as shown below. I set up and clamped a straight edged piece of wood at 3/8" away from the edge of the bit. I then did some trial and error with a pencil and settled on the measurements your see below. I went with 3 x 1 3/4" slots with a 1/4" space between. I carefully held the handguard over the bit and plunged it down and then slid it along the straight edge, following small marks I made to tell me where to start and stop. The plastic material cuts real nice with the router, but some of the material melts around the bit and re-crustifies it self in the slot after your pass with the bit, so you have to touch up the slot with a utility knife and file after you get off the router. Here is the finished product. Now as an aside, I don't have to have another US part because I went with a US made gas piston to make up for putting the CAA grip on, BUT, in my opinion, I believe I significantly changed the form and function of the handguard, in effect "manufacturing" a handguard in my own shop. The original handguard is just a handguard, what I have manufactured is also an accessory/grip mount and it functions to cool the barrel and gas tube. I'm going to stamp or stencil "USA" on the bottom for the heck of it. Let the 922r debates begin. I was half expecting to have to send the TAPCO folding stock back for being too cheap (like I did with the handguard) but I was surprised at how solid it is, and it presents a much better cheekweld than my wire stock on the Tantal. It seems current versions of this stock come with a metal hinge pin since some early examples with a plastic pin didn't hold up. I am still waiting for my bullet guide kit from Danzig, and a die to thread the end of the barrel and put a birdcage flash hider on, so I'm not quite done yet. Edited August 30, 2009 by Doc McB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HarvKY 72 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Doc, You might want to spend a little time looking at what other people have already done to their Saiga handguards before you warn us about duplicating "your" ideas for profit. There's only 24 bajillion examples already for sale here, Gunbroker and anywhere else you can find a hack with a dremel. Cheers HarvKY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Donkismash 81 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I'm not going to go into business making these, but it is my design and until further notice it is free to be copied for your personal, not for commercial use or profit. that's the funniest thing I have read all weak....good one dude Edited August 30, 2009 by Donkismash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) That was a great laugh! Doc McB congratulations for discovering something that most of us have known for sometime. I have a slotted Saiga 12 handguard in my spares box, except my slots are don't look like they were cut with a boxcutter... Welcome to the board anyway! Edited August 30, 2009 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Now as an aside, I don't have to have another US part because I went with a US made gas piston to make up for putting the CAA grip on, BUT, in my opinion, I believe I significantly changed the form and function of the handguard, in effect "manufacturing" a handguard in my own shop. The original handguard is just a handguard, what I have manufactured is also an accessory/grip mount and it functions to cool the barrel and gas tube. I'm going to stamp or stencil "USA" on the bottom for the heck of it. Let the 922r debates begin. You haven't changed the function of the handguard. It's still a handguard....just with a rail and vents. If I drill holes in my receiver and weld a picatinny rail to it, it's still a receiver, and will count as a foreign part. On the other hand, if you melted down your factory handguard, and say, made a PG out of it..........then you would have manufactured a US made part. I'm not going to go into business making these, but it is my design and until further notice it is free to be copied for your personal, not for commercial use or profit. Like the others have said, MANY before you have cut vents into their handguards and added rails to the bottom. It's not your design. Cobra, for one, offers venting as a service (and even offers the option to have a rail added): http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=32246 I'm not saying he's the first ever to do it, but I will say that I remember seeing his vented handguards back around when I joined this forum. Not trying to sound like a dick, but come on man........ Welcome to the forum. Edited August 30, 2009 by 22_Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 :haha2: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lvjeffro 30 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 DOH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 That was a very nice story... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) There's a reason they're called "newbies" But, hey, nice work and welcome to the board! Edited August 30, 2009 by Paladin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fxhart 14 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Entertaining as always! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPD 408 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Doc, My personal and non commercial statement is "Welcome to the forum!" And don't worry, we have all made errors in the past on some of our posts. But seriously, Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
docmcb 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Sorry folks, I thought I had come up with something innovative, didn't realize it had already been done and I was late to the party. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
janusthephoenix 24 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Sorry folks, I thought I had come up with something innovative, didn't realize it had already been done and I was late to the party. Don't feel bad. I 'invented' Excedrin a couple years ago. True story. My friends had a good laugh at my expense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Welcome to the forums Doc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 No worries Doc... Reminds of how I invented the rear window wiper. Yep, that's right. Way back in 1973, we had a guy from GM come to our school and I asked why they didn't put windshield wipers on the rear glass of cars. His answer was it was too much for the battery, which even at that age I knew he was full of shit because once the car is running the wipers runs off the alternator/generator. The bastard is probably rich today after he ran back to GM with the idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 What's up, Doc? Hey, don't be offended. There are always a few smartasses that have to chime in. Most of it is just having fun. But I guarantee you everyone on this board appreciates an innovative spirit which you obviously have. Just let this idea be a springboard to the next one. Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 What's up, Doc? Hey, don't be offended. There are always a few smartasses that have to chime in. Most of it is just having fun. But I guarantee you everyone on this board appreciates an innovative spirit which you obviously have. Just let this idea be a springboard to the next one. Welcome to the forum. WTF is up with your avatar??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 What's up, Doc? Hey, don't be offended. There are always a few smartasses that have to chime in. Most of it is just having fun. But I guarantee you everyone on this board appreciates an innovative spirit which you obviously have. Just let this idea be a springboard to the next one. Welcome to the forum. WTF is up with your avatar??? I ran across that on Google Images when we were all playing the screen name game. There's nothing "up" with it. I just think its interesting and I was ready for a change. Hey, I could have put up my high school yearbook photo. Now THAT is horrifying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Sorry folks, I thought I had come up with something innovative, didn't realize it had already been done and I was late to the party. Don't worry about it, I remember this guy that was running for President that claimed, on national TV, to have invented the Internet... Again, Welcome! Look at the Bright side, everyone now know who you are! Nothing beats a good "big mistake" for maximizing attention and exposer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 What's up, Doc? Hey, don't be offended. There are always a few smartasses that have to chime in. Most of it is just having fun. But I guarantee you everyone on this board appreciates an innovative spirit which you obviously have. Just let this idea be a springboard to the next one. Welcome to the forum. WTF is up with your avatar??? I ran across that on Google Images when we were all playing the screen name game. There's nothing "up" with it. I just think its interesting and I was ready for a change. Hey, I could have put up my high school yearbook photo. Now THAT is horrifying. Creepy shit, man.....creepy shit. Maybe someone should start a "Yearbook Picture" thread . I'm sure it would provide some good laughs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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