Hopefully A Legitimate Steak and Cheese Sub Question

[rastamanila 313]

Okay it's like this: Aside from being the de Facto Foreign Editor of The Manila Bulletin the main bread and butter of my girlfriend and myself (also sole source of revenue for firearms and ammo purchases) can be described as: Charcoal Oven Baked from scratch biscuit-thin Italian Pizza (Pizza di Grazzia) and Wagyu (Kobe Beef, for those who know) Steak and Cheese Sandwiches, Burgers, and Shawarma (Rafik Shawarma).

 

Right now we use American White Cheese.

 

Now when I studied in the United States I spent most of my time in MA and NY.

 

I passed through NH CT VT FL LA and TX on various vacations.

 

I only did pass through CA going home.

 

My girlfriend wants to diversify the Steak and Cheese sandwiches for our customers. She suggests adding choices of:

 

Chiz Whiz (No disrespect Philly residents; but not for me I find it a bit artificial)

 

and Provolone(probably a good idea).

 

The Philippines is a tropical country that imports practically all of its dairy products from AUS, NZ, US, and some European countries (so we don't have the variety that Wisconsinites would have available to them) so I suggest that your suggestions/opinions would hopefully be something I might have available here. But who knows? Mozzarella is never a problem for me and I know where to get Raclette.

 

Gourmand Suggestions Most Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen!

 

Jah

 

Ras Ta Far I

Edited September 22, 2009 by rastamanila

[Bvamp 604]

....wait....did you say you are making philly cheese steaks with Kobe beef? and you are making burgers out of it? NOW YOU ARE TALKING!!!!

 

(wait a minute, you are a rastafarian, phillipino, gun toting, new paper editing, junk food vendor? now thats a combination, there!)

 

for your steak and cheese sandwiches, of course adding a little provolone onto it will help the flavor, as will the right combination of onions and mushrooms. the most important seasonings on beef are salt and pepper, of course, dont forget. I am unsure of how the Kobe beef's marbling translates into a sliced and cooked profile, but the juices from the onions and mushrooms cooking with it in the right proportions cant hurt, thats for sure. Just dont go adding a bunch of bullshit into the mix, and keep it as simple as possible. The philidelphia members that see this can give you the best pointers on this one, actually.

 

for your burgers, there is a neat little trick....other than the usual ingredients to the mix, try a little ranch dressing in the chopmeat mix....

 

more neat burger tricks are to STUFF the burger. When doing this, like when you stuff it with cooked bacon in the middle with cheddar cheese (its too early for me to talk food, my stomach is protesting), one thing you really have to do, is dent in the middle of the burger, so when you cook it, it doesnt puff up into a ball shaped "mini-meatloaf". You said you can get mozzerella, why not offer "pizza burgers"? They can get pretty messy, but its an option, and if you make mini pizzas already, you should have the ingredients already.

 

Possibly a sliced sausage, onions, and peppers sandwich can do well, and doesnt require you to use anything different, cooking-wise on your griddle. when you add pork to the griddle, or chicken even, it is important to keep those areas of the cooking surface isolated from each other, in case someone is allegic to any of those, or cannot eat them. I dont know the showing of people that are prohibited to eat pork in your neck of the woods, but even having it NEAR your grills will make those people not even eat your food. Americans love that kind of sandwich, though, and like i said, its easy as heck to make.

 

What about getting some cooking rings, and making mini egg omlettes on bread? then you can really add options, without crippling your production, and causing huge waits.

 

The most important thing is to have a variety, but keep it smart, so that you dont have lots of waste, and lots of things with multiple ingredients that can send you cooking times through the roof. People dont like to wait for food, especially food like you are selling. whatever you do, speed is the key, and you should do what you can to keep the speed as fast as possible. It is the most important factor in that niche of the food industry.

[rastamanila 313]

....wait....did you say you are making philly cheese steaks with Kobe beef? and you are making burgers out of it? NOW YOU ARE TALKING!!!!

 

(wait a minute, you are a rastafarian, phillipino, gun toting, new paper editing, junk food vendor? now thats a combination, there!)

 

for your steak and cheese sandwiches, of course adding a little provolone onto it will help the flavor, as will the right combination of onions and mushrooms. the most important seasonings on beef are salt and pepper, of course, dont forget. I am unsure of how the Kobe beef's marbling translates into a sliced and cooked profile, but the juices from the onions and mushrooms cooking with it in the right proportions cant hurt, thats for sure. Just dont go adding a bunch of bullshit into the mix, and keep it as simple as possible. The philidelphia members that see this can give you the best pointers on this one, actually.

 

for your burgers, there is a neat little trick....other than the usual ingredients to the mix, try a little ranch dressing in the chopmeat mix....

 

more neat burger tricks are to STUFF the burger. When doing this, like when you stuff it with cooked bacon in the middle with cheddar cheese (its too early for me to talk food, my stomach is protesting), one thing you really have to do, is dent in the middle of the burger, so when you cook it, it doesnt puff up into a ball shaped "mini-meatloaf". You said you can get mozzerella, why not offer "pizza burgers"? They can get pretty messy, but its an option, and if you make mini pizzas already, you should have the ingredients already.

 

Possibly a sliced sausage, onions, and peppers sandwich can do well, and doesnt require you to use anything different, cooking-wise on your griddle. when you add pork to the griddle, or chicken even, it is important to keep those areas of the cooking surface isolated from each other, in case someone is allegic to any of those, or cannot eat them. I dont know the showing of people that are prohibited to eat pork in your neck of the woods, but even having it NEAR your grills will make those people not even eat your food. Americans love that kind of sandwich, though, and like i said, its easy as heck to make.

 

What about getting some cooking rings, and making mini egg omlettes on bread? then you can really add options, without crippling your production, and causing huge waits.

 

The most important thing is to have a variety, but keep it smart, so that you dont have lots of waste, and lots of things with multiple ingredients that can send you cooking times through the roof. People dont like to wait for food, especially food like you are selling. whatever you do, speed is the key, and you should do what you can to keep the speed as fast as possible. It is the most important factor in that niche of the food industry.

 

Thanks BVamp! I do mushrooms, onions, and if they want green peppers on request for those that want them. You can Google/Ask.com "Wagyu Shawarma" and "Pizza di Grazzia" to see testimony from others on various blogs/sites about our work. As far as I know I'm the only one on the planet offering Wagyu Shawarma. That said I can't guarantee the same for Steak and Cheese Subs but I'm certainly among the pioneers if I'm not the first.

 

I just want to say here that patience, hard work, and lucky stars helped us grow this business which we are very passionate about and love doing; and enabled me to save up enough to buy my beloved Saiga-12 in a relatively short time.

[rastamanila 313]

....wait....did you say you are making philly cheese steaks with Kobe beef? and you are making burgers out of it? NOW YOU ARE TALKING!!!!

 

(wait a minute, you are a rastafarian, phillipino, gun toting, new paper editing, junk food vendor? now thats a combination, there!)

 

for your steak and cheese sandwiches, of course adding a little provolone onto it will help the flavor, as will the right combination of onions and mushrooms. the most important seasonings on beef are salt and pepper, of course, dont forget. I am unsure of how the Kobe beef's marbling translates into a sliced and cooked profile, but the juices from the onions and mushrooms cooking with it in the right proportions cant hurt, thats for sure. Just dont go adding a bunch of bullshit into the mix, and keep it as simple as possible. The philidelphia members that see this can give you the best pointers on this one, actually.

 

for your burgers, there is a neat little trick....other than the usual ingredients to the mix, try a little ranch dressing in the chopmeat mix....

 

more neat burger tricks are to STUFF the burger. When doing this, like when you stuff it with cooked bacon in the middle with cheddar cheese (its too early for me to talk food, my stomach is protesting), one thing you really have to do, is dent in the middle of the burger, so when you cook it, it doesnt puff up into a ball shaped "mini-meatloaf". You said you can get mozzerella, why not offer "pizza burgers"? They can get pretty messy, but its an option, and if you make mini pizzas already, you should have the ingredients already.

 

Possibly a sliced sausage, onions, and peppers sandwich can do well, and doesnt require you to use anything different, cooking-wise on your griddle. when you add pork to the griddle, or chicken even, it is important to keep those areas of the cooking surface isolated from each other, in case someone is allegic to any of those, or cannot eat them. I dont know the showing of people that are prohibited to eat pork in your neck of the woods, but even having it NEAR your grills will make those people not even eat your food. Americans love that kind of sandwich, though, and like i said, its easy as heck to make.

 

What about getting some cooking rings, and making mini egg omlettes on bread? then you can really add options, without crippling your production, and causing huge waits.

 

The most important thing is to have a variety, but keep it smart, so that you dont have lots of waste, and lots of things with multiple ingredients that can send you cooking times through the roof. People dont like to wait for food, especially food like you are selling. whatever you do, speed is the key, and you should do what you can to keep the speed as fast as possible. It is the most important factor in that niche of the food industry.

 

Thanks BVamp! I do mushrooms, onions, and if they want green peppers on request for those that want them. You can Google/Ask.com "Wagyu Shawarma" and "Pizza di Grazzia" to see testimony from others on various blogs/sites about our work. As far as I know I'm the only one on the planet offering Wagyu Shawarma. That said I can't guarantee the same for Steak and Cheese Subs but I'm certainly among the pioneers if I'm not the first.

 

I just want to say here that patience, hard work, and lucky stars helped us grow this business which we are very passionate about and love doing; and enabled me to save up enough to buy my beloved Saiga-12 in a relatively short time.

 

Ooops! I need to add that it is NOT POSSIBLE for non-Muslim Filipinos to live WITHOUT PORK OR FISH. This is daily fare for many and we are a 7,107 island archipelago. Some of my smaller island brethren do not eat BEEF as they did not grow up with that in their diet.

[Brair 5]

If they are really into pork look into Souvlaki.

 

As for the steak and cheese, try adding a little balsamic vinegar when cooking the beef. For cheeses to try, Gruyere, Havarti, Gouda and Monterey Jack. You could play with some Queso Blanco also.

If you want to get fancy you could try doing a bechamel sauce and add cheese to it. That would not exactly be a traditional steak and cheese but still tasty.

[BigBump 1]

OK so steak and cheese is pretty much and obsession of mine, so I'll try and add my experiences on the subject...

 

As far as a traditional steak, you want to have 1/8th inch thick sliced ribeye (for the best marbling, yagyu can probably match that with other cuts of meat, you will have ot be the judge on that) strip or sometimes flank steak (be careful of ensuring thin slicing to avoid toughness)

 

325-375 degree F grill - throw some peanut or olive oil, meat, dash of non-iodized salt (kosher, sea, etc) and a few turns of cracked black pepper

 

As far as onions, they should be 1/4inch thick rings, left to themselves to clarify on the grill while the meat is cooking.

 

Here's where the debate starts, some prefer the meat to be untouched, still in the 1/8th in cuts - others prefer a chopped steak - I would serve them both ways if you have the ability for it.

 

Cheese - anything goes here, whiz is the orthodox choice, I think it sucks. The best (for me) is a sharp cheese, regardless of type cut thick (1/8th inch) and placed on bread just before assembly, allowing the meat/onions to soften

 

Bread - brush with a fat - butter, olive/peanut oil and either season with garlic or rosemary and place down on grill for one minute before assembling the sandwich to get a crust on the bread to hold it's structure when the liquid hits it and a little added texture.

 

<another debate> some steaks will add a fat based sauce during assembly, mayonaise, thousand island/russian dressings, which can be helpful to provide a fat barrier to prevent sogging of the bread, but it's not traditional

 

Preferred length 9-10 in 23-25cm.

 

 

<bump's favorite steak>

 

- prepared meat/onion as stated above

- garlic rubbed toasted roll, 9 inch

- sharp cheddar

- garlic/pepper mayo

- cole slaw or some other cabbage/carrot with vinegar mixture

- fresh cut potato fries (fried in peanut oil) 1/4 inch square layered on top lightly salted with sea salt

 

assembly order

bread - mayo - cheddar - meat - onion - slaw - fries

 

only cut the bread in half for dine-in orders: keep it whole for carrying ease

 

 

 

 

The pepper/mushroom/mustard debate

 

I will agree that a slightly sauteed pepper/mushroom combo and some dijon mustard does make a sandwich great - I get them occasionally but you HAVE to use a white cheese for this to taste anything reasonable. Banana peppers are the best, but any pepper mix will achieve the desired effect.

 

The other issue I have with this setup is the extreme amount of liquid, which will overpower the bread in short order, so a very crusty bread is essential.

 

 

The marinara/red sauce debate

 

It's pretty good, I like to throw a bunch of herbs down on the steak and onions before adding the sauce (oregano,thyme,sage,rosemary) to give it more bite

 

Again, requires a hard crusty bread to hold structure from all the liquid.

[BigBump 1]

Pork, seafood and other derivatives:

 

I'm not sure if you make a pork based "steak" but they are surprisingly awesome. My favorite is:

 

- A thick cut ham chopped on the grill with the same onions from the steak post

- Equal amount pineapple to onions

- White cheese, sharp

- spread made of mayo and teryaki sauce, equal parts

- fresh greens on top for texture

- crusty roll, to hold up to the liquid, toasted for a minute or so before assembly.

 

 

Another amazing sandwich from pork is the schnitzel, I like to throw a cuban twist on it

 

- 1/4 in thick pork loin, breaded and fried

- shaved ham

- dijon/spicy mustard

- dill mayo

- greens

- soft roll

 

Assemble the sandwich and then press on the grill for a minute or so under heavy weight to smash sandwich down

 

 

My favorite Fish Sandwich (can be used with any medium fleshed fish, I like grouper)

 

- Flattop or grill fish

- lightly spread butter or oil on top, hit with lemon

- Hamburger bun toasted on grill/flattop

- white cheese on bottom of bun

- tartar sauce or dill mayo

- coleslaw

 

assembly: bottom bun - cheese - mayo/tartar - fish - coleslaw - top bun

 

Hope this helps!

 

-Bump

[Boba Debt 350]

When I was in France there was a little food court right by the port in Trieste. They made something we called a "smash sandwich"

 

Basically they cooked the meat and the inside of the bread on a pannini type grill that was loaded with grease. Then they put the cheese, meat, veggies and french fries on the sandwich, closed it up, put it back in the grill and smashed it.

 

When you got it was wrapped in wax paper and dripping everywhere.

 

It was awesome. I have been trying to get my local shop to make them (I'm friends with the family that owns it) but they don't like to try stuff their not familiar with

[G O B 3,516]

Steak and provolone, procuso, fried onions and mushrooms!

[bohound 281]

The husband grew up working in his uncle's pizza shop, and swears unequivically by provolone. We have family in Philly too, and get down there quite a bit... Cheeze whiz just would ruin that beautiful steak.

 

If you want to get a bit exotic, and step up the game a bit, why not try a little smoked Gouda (shredded) sprinkled on top of the provolone.

 

Also- do you cook the steak on top of the onions? That's the way he does it... In this order (I just asked specific directions) Use a "flat top" grill, and add:

 

Onions

a splash of olive oil

steak

salt and pepper

a drop of Worchestershire (sp?)

chop chop chop (flip) chop chop chop (he is constantly moving and chopping the whole mess)

 

line into a "roll sized line"

 

put the roll on top of the steak/onion mix, put spatula under whole sandwich and flip.

 

Add sauce and cheese

 

put into pizza oven to melt cheese and toast bread a bit

 

garnish with parsely

 

Yum.

 

(Honey, can you go to the shop and make me a cheesesteak with Gouda?)

 

Easy, I'm preggo, I can get away with it... He's grabbing car keys now!

[RobRez 1,895]

Big Bump has a good head on his shoulders! Listen to his wise advice. I like mine with onions, cheddar, provolone and ketchup. Adding pan cooked potatoes and green peppers is tasty and about as far as I would go and still call it a cheese steak I lived in Philly for 15 years and never did the cheez-whiz thing! Thank goodness!!.

[scoutjoe 276]

 

 

Also- do you cook the steak on top of the onions? That's the way he does it... In this order (I just asked specific directions) Use a "flat top" grill, and add:

 

Onions

a splash of olive oil

steak

salt and pepper

a drop of Worchestershire (sp?)

chop chop chop (flip) chop chop chop (he is constantly moving and chopping the whole mess)

 

line into a "roll sized line"

 

put the roll on top of the steak/onion mix, put spatula under whole sandwich and flip.

 

Add sauce and cheese

 

put into pizza oven to melt cheese and toast bread a bit

 

garnish with parsely

 

Yum.

 

(Honey, can you go to the shop and make me a cheesesteak with Gouda?)

 

Easy, I'm preggo, I can get away with it... He's grabbing car keys now!

 

As a card carrying Italian, being from the great state of Pennsyltucky I give this method my vote

[Azrial 1,091]

Now here is a question that I can sink my teeth into! First of all are you talking about a Steak and Cheese Sub, or a genuine Philly Cheese Steak! There is a huge difference, and if you are Philly Cheese Steak consumer like myself, you may settle, once, for a Steak and Cheese Sub called a Philly Cheese Steak, but never again! The hardest part of a correct Philly Cheese Steak is the bread! Not any bread will do and certainly not a sub roll. They are not near flakey and crusty enought. I have had Philly Cheese Steaks all over the US and in several foreign countries. The bread is what kills you!

 

I like mine made with rid-eye steak with a little fat marbled in, for flavor when you fast grill it. A flat grilling surface; a cast-iron griddle works best! Garnish with onions, mushrooms, butter, salt, peppers and garlic as you will. Some folks like Hot peppers, lettuce, and tomato, but frankly I don't like mine that "busy."

 

As to the cheese, Provolone, American and Swiss all work well. I even had one with goat cheese that was pretty good!

 

But here is my secret recipe, crispy bacon on top of the steak!

 

Good luck on your venture!

Edited September 23, 2009 by Azrial

[rastamanila 313]

Now here is a question that I can sink my teeth into! First of all are you talking about a Steak and Cheese Sub, or a genuine Philly Cheese Steak! There is a huge difference, and if you are Philly Cheese Steak consumer like myself, you may settle, once, for a Steak and Cheese Sub called a Philly Cheese Steak, but never again! The hardest part of a correct Philly Cheese Steak is the bread! Not any bread will do and certainly not a sub roll. They are not near flakey and crusty enough. I have had Philly Cheese Steaks all over the US and in several foreign countries. The bread is what kills you!

 

I like mine made with rid-eye steak with a little fat marbled in, for flavor when you fast grill it. A flat grilling surface; a cast-iron griddle works best! Garnish with onions, mushrooms, butter, salt, peppers and garlic as you will. Some folks like Hot peppers, lettuce, and tomato, but frankly I don't like mine that "busy."

 

As to the cheese, Provolone, American and Swiss all work well. I even had one with goat cheese that was pretty good!

 

But here is my secret recipe, crispy bacon on top of the steak!

 

Good luck on your venture!

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. They're incredibly insightful. Azrial; as someone who has been doing this for quite some time I've noticed you've brought up several excellent points:

 

1. The Bread: You could not be more correct I'm still looking for something that is ultra crisp and flaky when toasted that practically disintegrates when you start eating it causing a bit of a crumbly mess on the surface below. This as you know is a difficult quest when you are working outside the US/Europe. For any Cambridge, MA/Boston residents on the forum I am reminded of the Syrian-American-run "Three Aces Pizza" on Mass. Ave.

 

2. The Beef: Hypothetically, if you are a customer that approaches my booth nowadays and you do not advise us otherwise; we will only put a tiny amount of sea salt and a more generous dash of crushed Java Black Pepper, and finally the American White Cheese on the Wagyu(Kobe) Sukiyaki Cut Steak. I don't like mine busy either.

 

The downfall, I feel of Chilli's/Friday's and others here is that they put all sorts of stuff that kills the beef flavor. I was horrified once to bite into Teriyaki sauce! Not everyone likes green or red bell peppers in theirs. Almost everyone here uses "Chiz Whiz". Almost everyone here skimps on the quality and amount of the beef they use; but clearly that is not my problem.

 

I may not be the most famous Steak and Cheese outfit in the P.I. (Kenny Rodgers launched one after their Male Model Endorser bought one of mine) but I sleep well at night knowing I deliver the best product in my country for a no-brainer price ($4.90 for a Wagyu Steak and Cheese Sandwich; I've heard of $60 Wagyu burgers in NYC).

 

Thanks for the cheese suggestions you guys! Cheddar, Provolone, Swiss, Gouda, Gruyere, and Hvarti are in most of our supermarkets. I love Monterey Jack even though it's a bit harder to find.

 

Hope to post market reations soon.

 

-Rock On!,

 

Jah

 

Ras Ta Far I

Edited September 23, 2009 by rastamanila

[Azrial 1,091]

I like it when a man take pride in delivering a quality product or service! I try and do the same with my service. I have been told that the secret in the bread is related to the water and atmosphere around Philadelphia. Yet, I am sure that there are similar conditions more local to you.

 

The Waffle House Resturnats here try and pass something off on Texas Toast as a Philly Cheese Steak! The worst, the very worst, I have ever had was one that was served to me by a Hardee's Chain Resturant years ago. Just as I took a bite blacken grease just ran out of it on the table! It was so bad, so nasty, I wanted to punch the manager in the nose!

 

I absolutley agree with the "all sorts of stuff that kills the beef flavor" statement. There is noting wrong with showing a little flare in your cooking, but some folks just can not understand that some things do not belong on a Philly Cheese!

 

BTW, I got to thinking and realized that the bacon might be a bad choice in your market! I ordered it by accident like that once and it was great!

 

If I ever get back to the P.I. I will look you up and try one!! They sound like they are going to be good!

[rastamanila 313]

I like it when a man take pride in delivering a quality product or service! I try and do the same with my service. I have been told that the secret in the bread is related to the water and atmosphere around Philadelphia. Yet, I am sure that there are similar conditions more local to you.

 

The Waffle House Resturnats here try and pass something off on Texas Toast as a Philly Cheese Steak! The worst, the very worst, I have ever had was one that was served to me by a Hardee's Chain Resturant years ago. Just as I took a bite blacken grease just ran out of it on the table! It was so bad, so nasty, I wanted to punch the manager in the nose!

 

I absolutley agree with the "all sorts of stuff that kills the beef flavor" statement. There is noting wrong with showing a little flare in your cooking, but some folks just can not understand that some things do not belong on a Philly Cheese!

 

BTW, I got to thinking and realized that the bacon might be a bad choice in your market! I ordered it by accident like that once and it was great!

 

If I ever get back to the P.I. I will look you up and try one!! They sound like they are going to be good!

 

No No No...Bacon is an Excellent choice in our market. All the burger joints use it. It's even worked its way in to our local cuisine! In our local version of what we all call "Chicken Curry" we serve it with quartered stewed potatoes and a multi compartmentalized porcelain serving plate that has crispy bacon bits, fried onion rings, minced fresh tomato, minced boiled egg, raisins, and mango chutney.

[loki0629 55]

Rasta,

I was going to mention the bread but Azrial beat me to it. It's the bread that defines the Philly Cheese Steak. Most of us take ours with American Cheese. The only people in Philly I've seen eating Cheese Steaks with cheese whiz are tourists. Seriously.

 

Now back to your menu, there's a couple of variations that might be readily available for you. One is the pizza steak, which is basically the beef cooked in spaghetti sauce and served with or without cheese (provolone works best on this one). The other is a cheese steak hoagie, a cheese steak served with shredded lettuce, tomato, salt, and pepper. Yes, the meat and cheese is hot and the lettuce and tomatoes are cold and it is delicious. You can also get the pizza steak hoagie, which is the pizza steak with the lettuce and tomato. Finally, don't forget that anything you can do to the beef to make a cheese steak, you can do to chicken. There is a great street vendor in Center City Philadelphia at 18th and Market who makes the absolute best chicken cheese steak in the city using whole breast marinated chicken. The marinade is some kind of barbecue marinade.

 

Now if you ever get adventurous and make a cheese steak with carabao cheese (maybe crumbled on top?)...let me know how that turns out will ya?

[dlcjr1973 24]

Rasta,

 

I spent a few years working as a short-order cook in a Philly snack shop as a teenager, and I think you're definitely on the right track. Quality ingredients define good cheese steaks. Places that offer excessive toppings or fancy-schmancy options are usually trying to disguise inferior sandwiches. If you've got good bread (sounds like you've got a plan), grade-A meat (Wagyu Sukiyaki Cut - oh yeah!) and provolone (traditional choice) your customers will be clamoring for more. As for toppings, all we offered was fried onions and green peppers, mayo, ketchup, mustard and A-1 steak sauce. The 80-year old Italian who owned the place would have beat my ass for even mentioning cheeze whiz. Good luck.

 

As an aside, I envy your gun laws. Pennsylvania isn't the worst in the country, but browsing the gun shops on Luzon and Cebu was how I imagine heaven will be.

 

Regards,

 

Sapper

[Rockina 60]

I don't have a secret recipe to add, just want you all to know this thread made me VERY HUNGRY....