talk me into it

[gunfun 3,931]

I like how my s12 is set up now, but I know full well that I eventually either want to do the full conversion on this one or leave this one as is and get a second to trick out.

 

For me it is not worth it to buy retail parts and make something just like in all of the other picture threads. They are nice, but i would rather make it mine. Also I am a tightwad trying to catch my finances up after a few months of joblessness. The cheaper the core parts, the sooner I can make this happen.

 

How can you talk me into it?

 

1)Recommend a quality inexpensive folding mechanism. It doesn't have to be for one of these, because I have access to a full machine shop and would probably take a weekend and make my stock and pistol grip from scratch. I don't mind cutting up a cheap or surplus stock made for something else to get a good hinge setup. I can make the rest easily enough, but I doubt my ability to make a hinge I would like, and the ace one seems to be fairly pricey. I intend to make it a side folder with the stock on the left side and with clearance for a posp rail so I can use the scope with slugs (hate it if you must, but I like it)

 

2) Talk me into a trigger group. I tried an 7.62 that the owner said had a tapco trigger in and was kind of disappointed. Is that something I can safely improve, or should I get something else? I don't mind making clearance on the hammer, and for the BHO, and polishing, etc. to save cash or get a nicer feel. I could buy the Tapco g2, like most do, but am willing to spend more if I get more...

 

If you know of a nifty package deal on all the internal parts needed for an inepensive conversion, that would be helpful.

Thanks guys.

 

And I did try searching for folding mechanism threads here, but I must suck because I didn't come up with anything impressive.

[HarvKY 72]

For the aftermarket stocks like Tromix, Ace, DPH, MAA, etc. the ACE folding mechanism (pushbutton or regular) is basically the only style available I believe

 

Otherwise there is the russian AK100 style hinge for solid poly stocks or triangular folders

[DPH is bringing in a foreign made copy of the triangle sets for $149].

 

Also there's the various factory wire folders (E.German, Polish, Romy, etc) that have the folding mechanism as part of the unit (more or less). Perhaps a creative person could modify those?

[Copes is bringing in some surplus units for $60]

 

Good luck

 

HarvKY

[iSaiga 4]

Stop wasting your money on food! Just eat peanut butter & oranges (they don't spoil and have lots of nutrition) and buy a second Saiga 12 to shoot & convert while your other one is being upgraded.

[vitamink 90]

I didn't even realize that my trigger was slapping my finger until after the conversion. it's a night and day difference. All the cool kids are doing it. [children of the corn voice] join us. You may not even need to buy a stock...I'll be posting mine for free here in a second.

[Azrial 1,091]

For the aftermarket stocks like Tromix, Ace, DPH, MAA, etc. the ACE folding mechanism (pushbutton or regular) is basically the only style available I believe

 

Otherwise there is the russian AK100 style hinge for solid poly stocks or triangular folders

[DPH is bringing in a foreign made copy of the triangle sets for $149].

 

Also there's the various factory wire folders (E.German, Polish, Romy, etc) that have the folding mechanism as part of the unit (more or less). Perhaps a creative person could modify those?

[Copes is bringing in some surplus units for $60]

 

Good luck

 

HarvKY

There is also the external folding stock block Falcon stock and of course the all-polymer Tapco.

[Gibbles 23]

do it

[clifton 354]

jus do it

[corbin 621]

Convince you? I have just two words for ya......

 

COME ON....... COME ON....... (ok, that's 4 words) LOL

 

 

One of the nice things about an AK styled system is (much like an older car) it doesn't usually take specialized equipment to tune up, tweak and change parts out. A hammer, screwdriver and a drill should have it covered, depending on what you're doing. Maybe a dremel. Having access to a machine shop opens up your options quite a bit.

 

You can also "nickel and dime" upgrades over time if money is an issue. Just be sure to stay in 922 compliance by changing out at least 3 things initially. The FCG would work. Or the stock, forearm and gas puck.

 

I don't know of many folding mechanisms other than the ACE and the Russian 103 style, which requires changing out the rear trunnion. I guess there's the Tapco folder though, which would probably be the cheapest route to go. The mechanism is part of the stock with hte Tapco. I personally prefer the feel of an ACE or Tromix stock, but those require a separate folding mechanism.

 

 

Good luck, have fun and be safe.

 

 

Corbin

 

 

P.S. Do It! Do it NAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!

Edited October 15, 2009 by Corbin

[gunfun 3,931]

thanks, guys especially azrial, since he actually mentioned a brand. I will be looking up the falcon stock or hinge after work.

I didn't reply sooner, because I didn't get any subscription alerts, so I hadn't realized you guys had actually responded. sorry.

 

To be honest, you don't so much need to convince me that a conversion is better, more which parts I should buy. I would rather have my own custom side folder than tromix, etc. more for personality than price, although $170 for a 12" aluminum triangle is hard to justify. I just wanted to find a good hinge that cost less than the ace. also I was concerned about welding to cast aluminum, which leaves me to bolting to it. with milled billet aluminum or steel, or stainless hinge, I could weld whatever I want directly to the mechanism.

 

I looked at what I think was a a Romanian wire stock to steal the hinge from on ebay. I didn't buy it because as near as I could tell from the pictures, it worked by pulling a pin and putting it back in where ever you wanted it locked. I was considering cutting up a used butler creek for the hinge, as I like the one on my 10/22 (I have a longer stainless old style one) but the hinge would be folding to the wrong side. Since I plan to hack it up and weld etc. It really does not need to be s-12 specific at all, just a compact solid simple side hinge that can work for the left side for less than $60.

 

So what is the preferred fcg?

[BobAsh 582]

For "drop-in" installation get one from us or Dinzag, otherwise you can get a Tapco and grind it yourself.

 

 

[gunfun 3,931]

I don't mind grinding myself. I've done plenty of that kind of thing. I was debating whether I would be happier with the adjustable Red Star trigger group, or with polishing up a Tapco g2. I like very short travel and light triggers.

Edited October 21, 2009 by GunFun

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Convince you? I have no incentive to do that. My advice is to leave yours the way it came from the factory, then go shoot it alongside a good pg conversion restoration. Compare how each set-up handles and you'll decide on your own to restore your S-12 properly.

[gunfun 3,931]

Corbin -- is the russian 103 style their non-export version that disables the trigger when folded? Or is it something commonly available?

 

 

I have seen the old import style CAA side folder that was intended for the unconverted trigger group. It was ugly and utilitarian enough to like, but If that is the 103, I think I would rather do it right.

 

maybe I am stuck with the ace.

[gunfun 3,931]

Convince you? I have no incentive to do that. My advice is to leave yours the way it came from the factory, then go shoot it alongside a good pg conversion restoration. Compare how each set-up handles and you'll decide on your own to restore your S-12 properly.

 

 

Ok, I don't really need much convincing. I just thought putting it that way might get a bit more interesting responses and clever options for a unique stock setup. I don't really have anyone in my area with anything like an s12 other than me that I know. I did once see a guy with one that was apparently converted by some shop in Oregon. Looked nice, and had what appeared to be a AGP style JT magwell, removed side rail, and a nice dura-coat job. The guy just bought it on a whim, and didn't even know how to operate it. He was bragging about the buy to his friend, who had just bought two tacticool pumps, and he wasn't even sure what model of gun he had bought. He had it on the wrong gas setting. I didn't really check it out because I didn't know them and I was concerned with their lax range safety. Believe me I wanted to get a good look and try badly.

 

I have been pretty careful with the 922r stuff and am just legal as is thanks to the good material here. Like I said. I Like my gun this way, but I think I want to build a crazy full out competition gun. I think it would also be fun to make my own magwells and stuff like that. If it sucks, I can just take it off and buy one made by a pro, but if it works well it would be that much more satisfying.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Yeah, you could try for a competition set-up.. but do you participate in many 3-gun competitions?

 

I took the middle road.. and converted restored mine myself in order to make it easier and more natural to handle for hd. It's also a helluva lot of fun to practice with, (even though I don't have a magwell/ported barrel/carefully polished parts).

 

Here are a few pics of mine. The total price was not cheap, but it wasn't outrageous, since I did all the work myself with hand and common power tools. I also use some pretty decent parts on my gun:

 

(I no longer use the vented Polychoke II pictured)

Edited October 21, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[Twinsen 86]

c'MON, do it.

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

I hear the conversion parts are about $150...but what is it worth to you to have a shit eating grin all over your face every time you shoot your restored gun??? Ask anyone who has done this before you about that ear to ear grin....You probably haven't experienced that with an unrestored saiga...If you're in Eastern WA you can shoot mine to to experience it....I'm ready to shoot again.

Edited October 22, 2009 by TO THE FLOOR

[teddyraynelson 2]

I too say peanut butter and oranges. Gotta do what ya gotta do.

[gunfun 3,931]

Post-Apocalyptic. No I don't do 3 gun, but I would love to. I did some searching and can't find anything like that in my area. There are a couple of places a few hundred miles away that charge about the cost of a decent gun for a day of play.

 

As it is I would need to buy 2 guns, the ammo, the magazines, the pouches, and develop the skills first, not to mention the time and money. It is on my someday list. That said, I really admire some of the one-of-a-kind guns people build for those, and would like to make my own a bit at a time. I love how their guns are set up so specifically to achieve a particular function as quickly, simply and effectively as possible. I doubt I would ever be competitive, but I know I would have lots of fun failing.

 

That is part of why I would like to make some of my own parts. I know there are a lot of good ready made parts out there, but nothing is quite as custom as made to fit. It will probably be a few months before I can buy the parts and start, but if I can figure out what parts I want to start with, I can do it in steps.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Hey, if you want to build a truly custom gun, and have the time, talent, and resources necessary to make your own parts, by all means, do so. Post some pics here when you've got some built!

 

Me, I just picked the most useful parts I could find to build my S-12 the way I want it from what's out there. I'm more than satisfied with the result.

[gunfun 3,931]

Posty - Yeah, I do. I have been fabbing stuff for boats and my last job was building machinery. I am not amazingly talented, but I can do what I have in mind if I don't rush things. I think I can build something cooler for probably less money than an off the shelf part, and I know that the customness would ultimately make me happier.

 

It just got pushed back a few months because a guy here sold me several mags and a JT magwell for about the price of the mags. It was something I planned to get or make anyway, so I could not pass up the deal. I would still like to take whack at making a magwell for the next saiga, but I could easily ruin mags enough to add up to the right price while expirimenting with making one. So this seemed smarter. Hopefully I will find as good a deal here on the folder parts, and it will all work out. Anyway, you guys gave me some good ideas, and I have time to find what I really want before I start cutting.

 

I know you guys will think I am retarded for getting a magwell before doing a PG job on it. Honestly, it bugs me more that they stuck with the dumb rock n' lock than the sporterizing... before you lynch me let me explain: they sporterized it because they had to to get around our idiot gov't. Sad, but they didn't have much choice. At least they made it easier to fix. Russian saigas have magwells and they chose to downgrade them to rock'n' lock even though there was no requirement. It is a super cheap piece of stamped metal. The only reason I can think of is that they made a marketing decision and decided that the American market preferred a sentimental image of an old style Kalashnikov over improved function. Maybe they are right, but it annoys me to go to trouble to make something inferior. (also, nothing about the thing is classik ak 47 in looks, or in caliber, so why cripple performance for tradition. If they wanted tradition, offer wood ak style fittings and a front sight post as stock.)