Your choice for HD

[Alexc.s. 25]

Some one has broken in to your home, you can pick one of the following. What do you grab?

20 gauge pump loaded with 250g slugs, 6 rounds, barrel not rifled.

Ruger 10/22 and two 25 round mags of rem bulk pack.

Saiga 223 with two 30 round mags full of 62g HP.

 

That's what I have. What is best out of all of them.

Can you suggest anything better?

Edited February 14, 2010 by Datastick

[jimdigriz 580]

Some one has broken in to your home, you can pick one of the following. What do you grab?

20 gauge pump loaded with 250g slugs, 6 rounds, barrel not rifled.

Ruger 10/22 and two 25 round mags of rem bulk pack.

Saiga 223 with two 30 round mags full of 62g HP.

 

That's what I have. What is best out of all of them.

Can you suggest anything better?

 

I would grab the 223. (Consider loading it with a good self-defense ammo like Hornady TAP, which aside from the good balistic performance, has less muzzle flash). I might set the other guns in backup locations though.

 

The Ruger 10/22 is too unreliable, and has too little firepower. You can't defeat soft body armor with 22 LR. The 20 gauge with the slugs give you no real advantages over the .223. If it was loaded with buckshot, there would be some advantage to it, but I'd still want the semi-auto.

 

As far as something better - well, I'm planning to get a Saiga 12 and a 20 round drum. Until then, the Saiga rifles will sit close at hand.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[Snakedoc 5]

Of those 3 I would choose the 20 ga.

 

.22 is too weak

 

.223 is too strong and you have to worry about your bullet goes after it passes through the bad guy or if you miss your target.

[jimdigriz 580]

Of those 3 I would choose the 20 ga.

 

.22 is too weak

 

.223 is too strong and you have to worry about your bullet goes after it passes through the bad guy or if you miss your target.

 

The slugs will have plenty of penetration too.

[chevyman097 2,579]

Im sorry but I didnt vote because there was not an option for worst poll ever. Srsly man come on.

[Twinsen 86]

With the ranges inside of a house, 20ga slugs.

 

And a nice flashlight.

[swells08 128]

First out of those three what do you feel most comfortable with? You use that one and practice till you are proficient with all of them..after that I guess I am partial to a pump shotgun with buckshot...as you described a standard home invasion I am not sure how frequently a run of the mill burglar wears body armor...if they have body armor then you might be in trouble no matter what...also the flashlight is a great idea..know where your shots and possibly theirs may go in the event of actually using deadly force. But as I said if you are an ace with the 10/22 and are comfortable with it use it.

[chevyman097 2,579]

First out of those three what do you feel most comfortable with? You use that one and practice till you are proficient with all of them..after that I guess I am partial to a pump shotgun with buckshot...as you described a standard home invasion I am not sure how frequently a run of the mill burglar wears body armor...if they have body armor then you might be in trouble no matter what...also the flashlight is a great idea..know where your shots and possibly theirs may go in the event of actually using deadly force. But as I said if you are an ace with the 10/22 and are comfortable with it use it.

 

are you srs?

 

Honestly I hope this whole thread is a joke.

Edited February 14, 2010 by chevyman097

[Alexc.s. 25]

Chevyman097 can you not spell, seriously? How is this a joke at all?

DJ Big Dog has the right idea. Use what you are best with.

Sorry, but you need to try not being an ass hole.

[Salmonking 149]

Don't use a 22. for HD. I mean, if it's all you have, it's better than nothing, but that's not the case.

 

All penetrate drywall, but I'd stay away from slugs though for HD due to what I saw from a friend's experience (he missed and shot through his entire house only to kill a dishwasher). Use buckshot in the 20 gauge (12 gauge w/ #4 is what I've got) A flashlight with a high lumen count is essential. If it's got a Strobe function it would probably be preferred to use when encountering the bad guy as they function at the highest brightness setting and screws with depth perception/overall awareness of the perp. 4sevens makes a great cost effective flashlight.

 

Hornady TAP are awesome SD rounds to use as mentioned before, but they're a bit on the expensive side if you're planning on filling up 2 mags (which you should have just in case). Shoot whichever is more comfortable for you, just be aware of what every round has the potential to sail through once you pull that trigger though. Just as an aside though, most bad guys don't wear body armor if they're trying to burgle you; It restricts the movement, weighs them down, and is expensive. Generally, if someone breaks into you're home with body armor, they'll also have weapons and be there for more than your stuff. Stay in one place with a rifle on the door, and have the cops on the line if you can.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Salmonking

[chevyman097 2,579]

Chevyman097 can you not spell, seriously? How is this a joke at all?

DJ Big Dog has the right idea. Use what you are best with.

Sorry, but you need to try not being an ass hole.

 

 

If by asking me if I can spell makes you feel better about asking if you should use a 10/22 for Hd makes you feel better go for it bro.

[Alexc.s. 25]

One .22cal bullet is like one bit of buckshot.

I don't know about you but I can hit a can at 50 feet 25 times in 25 seconds or less.

Ever been shot by any real gun?

If it makes you feel any better I'm going with the .223, same idea as the .22 but more punch.

[patriot 7,197]

A shotgun is by far your best close range weapon, but forget the slugs. Use shot. If you're an apartment dweller, birdshot, if not, then buckshot. A shotgun puts more lead on-target, with the associated increase in trauma over your other two choices. There is also a far slimmer chance that a projectile will travel through walls and injure an unintended target.

 

As far as body armor goes, Only the torso is protected. Legs and head are not. Shoot a perp in the face with shotgun pellets and you no longer have a threat.

 

Here's a good place for ammo. They're good people.

 

Ammoman

Edited February 14, 2010 by patriot

[TR Young 175]

If these three are all you have, then I'd go with the 20ga, too. Patriot spelled out why.

[chupa 34]

20 ga. & Buckshot (I know you said slugs, go buy some buckshot)

Edited February 14, 2010 by chupa

[jimdigriz 580]

One .22cal bullet is like one bit of buckshot.

I don't know about you but I can hit a can at 50 feet 25 times in 25 seconds or less.

 

Don't count on that accuracy still being there when you are disoriented from waking up suddenly in the middle of the night, it's dark, you're pumped full of adrenaline with your life in danger, and you're shooting at moving, intelligent targets. That's why I suggested earlier a Saiga 12 with a drum mag. Increases your hit potential and margin for error.

[swells08 128]

+1 Patriot..

 

I was just answering the question, seemed simple enough...he has three nice firearms, which one would you recommend out of those three to grab and go during a home invasion...I said use whatever you are best with and definately learn how to be just as good with all of them. As we all know having a firearm without use increases risk involved in using it. I prefer a pump shotty the sound of racking a shell is a huge deterent, I have seen it work in person. I think the OP was sincerely asking an opinion from people they believed to be knowledgeable and friendly...so whatever...but all the posts seem to be on target with a shotgun with buckshot.

Edited February 14, 2010 by DJ Big Dog

[chevyman097 2,579]

Look heres the thing. I dont mean to act like im trolling your thread. But if you have to ask this you need to do some serious research or get with a gun range/trainer and take some classes. Get on the internet and do some research on ballistics. I guess I shouldnt assume everyone has the common sense to make this decision.

 

First off you want to stay away from the .22 at all cost for HD no matter how good you think you can shoot with it. .22s can be very dangerous and will not stop some one in their tracks no matter how well of a shot you can place. They are known for ricochet with can be very dangerous in your home.

 

The .223 will penetrate walls and the last thing you want to do is injure some one you dont intend to. Its ok to use if you cant get to anything else at the time. But if you are going to use it look into some self defense rounds for it. Do not use fmjs in the home.

 

The 20 gauge with buck shot if your best bet. Do not use slugs inside the home, if you think the .223 has penetrations go shoot some boards with he slugs. The last thing you want is to be punching fist size holes in your homes walls.

 

you will get alot of diff opinions on gun boards so I would highly suggest you do some serious research if you are concerned about the firearms you have. No one should ever suggest a .22 as a self defense firearm unless it is the last resort srsly guys.

[ktcm7271 999]

20 gauge as well, buck shot instead of slugs. I've heard that a lot of guys prefer the 20 over the 12 for it's less recoil, less penetration, and comparable power to the 12. I'm still using my .44 revolver for a couple reasons: reliable, powerful, ease of use, quick to draw and aim, and it's one of my cheaper guns so if I had to use it, I wouldn't miss it as much as my other guns while the investigation is being conducted.

[Boba Debt 350]

I also think this a really weird poll. It almost like you picked the 3 worse options available

 

For me there are only 2 suitable rounds for home defense

 

Shot gun shot(bird or buck) and a 45 HP of you have a pistol

[jimdigriz 580]

For me there are only 2 suitable rounds for home defense

 

Shot gun shot(bird or buck) and a 45 HP of you have a pistol

 

This presupposes that everyone has a need to worry about over-penetration. It's not really an issue where I live. Not to mention, with the right load, .223 will not exit a house with brick walls with enough energy to be a concern.

[PRISONSHANK 70]

Unless you get some 00 for that shotty I'd use the 223 over slugs.

Sometimes being able to shoot through walls could save your life...on the other hand could take one too.

All just depends on the individual situation.

[Wolverine 10,360]

Load that 20 with 00 buck. Save for a Saiga 12.

[Alexc.s. 25]

I agree that the 20 gauge with shot of some kind is best. But what I asked was, out of what I have right now, what is best.

I will pick up some buck latter, but at the time that I wright this the .223 is my best option.

This is what I was getting at. What's best of what's there. Not go buy some buckshot.

I am selling a few things(not here), and that should give me most of what I need for a saiga 12 and lot's of buck.

Or a 9mm and a lot of 20 gauge buck.

[chupa 34]

If you are not worried about bullet penetration, you must live alone in the woods??? You cant tell me you honestly have a shotgun and only have slugs, I would rather use heavy birdshot than slugs. As stated above did you ever have to fire shots instantly after waking up from a dead sleep? me neither! Your chances of damaging vital organs and have a better pattern is to use buckshot. I'm not flaming you, but you mean to tell me in the past week you didn't drive past a store that sells shotgun shells? There is no way in hell!! I would ever start shooting through a wall to hit an intruder! Every state is different but in most, your Fucked if he lives and Really Fucked if you kill him. If he lives you can share a cell with him!

 

I agree, this is an odd question for someone who owns firearms?

Edited February 14, 2010 by chupa

[Alexc.s. 25]

I'm 17, in school, no time on my hands, almost no money, no job due to no time. Like I said working with what I have.

[chupa 34]

I'm just trying to help you out Data, I didn't know your full situation. I was starting to think you were a Troll. Are these guns yours or your parents? I would save up a couple bucks, you can buy a value pack of "00" buck at Wally World for under 12 bucks. If you are serious $12 is nothing, remember you are trying to save your own life. I'm only being this way with you due to the fact my home was burglarized 12 years ago and this is something everyone needs to take serious. Last time I checked you have to be older than 17 to buy ammo?

Edited February 14, 2010 by chupa

[Alexc.s. 25]

The guns are mine and my father comes with me to buy what ever I like, as long as it's with my money. My parents don't like wally world, but I talk them into going every other week or so. I take this very seriously, which is why I asked, out of what I had right this second.

Thanks for the help every one, this website is one of the top 3 I visit every day.

I try my best not to be a troll. Sorry your home was burglarized, I really dread the thought of it happening.

I'm also an insomniac, so my aim is good till about 3am.

[chevyman097 2,579]

Honestly I thought this was a troll thread too.

 

But the longer it got i figured it prolly was more serious than I took it. lol

 

Well I hope you learn alot from here. You might check out thehighroad too, they are pretty good. But I have never seen a forum that tops the saiga! I cant lie since I found them Ive been a pretty big forumaholic.

[Tsm002 5]

.223 hands down. There's a reason no one issues 20 gauge or .22's that does this shit for a living.

 

Overpenetration is an overblown worry. See the box o truth for verifification. .223 retains MUCH less energy than a 20 gauge slug or even a 9mm fmj round through most drywalls. If you're using m193 spec fmj you're good to go.

 

Here to put your fears of overpenetration to rest and to make the shotgun believers and the pistol believers shit bricks:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

 

We're talking about retained kinetic energy AFTER passing through a common barrier. The fact is that a 55 grain .223 projectile is GOING to retain MUCh less kinetic energy than a 123 grain or 147 grain 9mm slug and MUCH less than a 20 gauge slug. You'd also be amazed at how much energy can be retained by a .32 or .25 caliber ball of buckshot. Honestly, I'll take a rifle over a shotgun ANY day. Despite the chest thumping by many gun forum folks there is a reason that the combat shotgun is not on general issue except in niche situations. It's mostly used for breaching. That's it.

 

You want a serious social gun, go for a carbine. Most go to .223. Law enforcement officers have to worry about overpenetration MUCH more than you as a civilian EVER will. Ask any of them what happens if an errant shot hits an innocent. Yeah, even if you're justified. Just watch. Even if you make it out okay the media's going to rake you over the coals. And many departments will leave you to hang out to dry instead of sticking up for you, especially if the situation at all deviated from your training.

 

Despite all of this, what have LEO's gone towards? Rifle caliber carbines. In droves. They're moving away from shotguns in most cases aside from breaching and for VERY good reason. Besides, if you can find out what .223 your LEO's locally use (odds are it's winchester ranger 62 grain or some sort of 55 grain m193 spec ammunition or 75 grain TAP if they're particularly forward thinking) just load that up. If some dipshit defense attorney or grand jury wants to look at the case, hey, if it's such a horrible threat to public safety, why is joe blow cop who probably has MUCH less formal firearms training than many serious gun owners who run 3 gun comps and the such using it?

 

Second on the list would be a 20 gauge. #3 buck, since that's often what I can find. Good luck finding 00 buck. Screw slugs unless I think I'm going to be shooting at range.

 

Forget the .22. Should not even be seriously considered unless it's all you have for a variety of reasons. Rimfire round= reliability gimping from the get go.

 

Also, the poster who stated that if you have to shoot through a wall to kill an intruder you're screwed...please post relevant case law. There are boatloads of precedents for shooting through a door at an intruder attempting to breach it that have ended up a-ok even in states such as CA. Where you're going to run into serious trouble is if you're shooting at someone who has run off your property. people get fucked by that all the time.

 

If someone is actively attempting to take the door off its hinges I absolutely do not have to wait for them to do so. I live in TX so we have an extra castle doctrine but even before castle doctrine came into effect this was the case. The assumption being that if the door is about to come off the hinges (which the LEO's here will tell you is FAR easier than it looks on most doors, especially cheapie hollow core jobs) you are in a reasonable state of mind to be in fear of your life.

 

Also why the hell you would EVER use birdshot for home defense is beyond me. It's meant for birds. You're not going to hit vital organs or disrupt CNS with birdshot reliably. Can it happen? Sure. Is it something I'd wanna stake my life and the life of those in my house on? Absolutely not. This has been proven false over and over and over again by a variety of sources. Neither the fackler jello-junkies or the Marshall/sanow morgue monsters will tell you that birdshot is a good idea.

 

Head over to www.stoppingpower.net for good discussion on the shotgun/carbine stopping power issue.

 

Sorry to step on any toes here but this is a decision that could cost lives. If a stray .223 round hits someone I guarantee you that a stray 9mm would have done the same damn thing if we're talking about penetration through common household barriers.

 

Another way to overcome this?

 

Take your firearm of choice for HD through a formal course. I have attended quite a few carbine courses. They are amazing. Pat Rogers does a very good one. If you have LEO connections, Magpul Dynamics is incredible. yes, they can cost a few thousand. So freaking what. You can find them cheaper too. The thing is, you find out what will go down on your gun, what kit works and what doesn't, how to USE your firearm for something other than shooting static targets and you will have the CONFIDENCE you need to keep your cool when shit hits the fan. WHEN it happens, it will, more likely than not, be like 3 am and you'll be in your skivvies, possibly sleeping off a nice hangover or just having gotten through having a wild ride with your wife. You've gotta be able to transition from that to game face immediately. No accessory is going to help you do that but TRAINING.

 

Training is also gonna help keep overpenetration from even being an issue. Most important thing you can do when making the decision to use a firearm for HD. I'd even go so far as to say that if you are not willing to train on your firearm that you should not have one for HD. Might piss some people off but damn, if you can't even read some books and run some drills at the range especially on weapons retention I certainly would not wish for you to be defending my life.

I have posted one source that is fairly well respected all over the damn place that helps put the overpenetration deal to rest and another source that literally wrote the book on stopping power issues. When making these sorts of decisions, honestly OP, you've gotta ask what it's worth. Not just your life but anyone else in your house. So you might think what I've posted is bunk. That's cool. My advice is worth exactly what you have paid for it. But please, please, please make a decision you feel 100 percent confident in.