So, this Saiga-12 walks into a Shotgun Match...

[LetsKillDave 0]

Just finished my first shotgun match with my new Saiga-12 (Tapco stock/fore mod, 12-round mags from Carolina Shooters Supply). Some comments:

 

1) You can see some basic vids my wife took today. Here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2RRbyCKvls

2) Had MANY extraction problems. Really didn't expect this with a stock Saiga-12

3) Reloading. Oh the shame. I SUCKED.

4) When it was working, it was dead-on. I hit everything I wanted to hit and quickly.

 

So, good people of the forums, I'm looking for advice (you may throw in jeering and derision as well, but I expect some advice mixed in, and "Give up!" or "Sell your Saiga!" doesn't count as "advice" )

 

I see two problems here that I _think_ are unrelated:

1) Extraction issues. It's almost like the extractor claw is falling off before the extraction completes. I'm shooting 2 3/4" loads (1250fps, 7.5shot). Just normal target stuff. I thought my 12-round mags might be the culprit, but my factory Saiga 5-round mag had issues too (it fell out of my vest pocket in one of the stages and summarily broke into it's component parts, so I wasn't very impressed with its durability). Would be interested in suggested corrections for this

 

2) Reloading. Honestly, I practiced reload drills last night, but today's performance made me seem like the old fool out there (ok, I am an old fool, but that's a different topic, tyvm ). I know I can buy reloading assistants/magwells, so I'd love to hear suggestions on what to do here. FYI: All my mag changing was done with bolt held open.

 

 

P.S. - I'm really happy with the clear 12-round mags from Carolina Shooters Supply. They're tolerant of being kicked around and dropped and the clear mag makes round count/visibility a piece of cake.

[Racer 27 37]

Welcome Dave its been a couple years for your first post.

 

ETA I'm not sure what could cause your extraction problems someone will be along shortly with that. But your reload times will improve with practice. You still kicked the shit out of the guys reloading 1 at a time! Tube feeders.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Racer 27

[LetsKillDave 0]

Welcome Dave its been a couple years for your first post.

 

Thanks. I prefer to think of it as "pacing myself"

[TO THE FLOOR IN A 63 121]

Try some ammo with a higher muzzle velocity...1300+ Try not to use Winchester value packs. Make sure the gun is broken in...75-100 slugs or hi brass loads. Same old complaints don't worry.

[Bridis 319]

How many times have you shot your Saiga? Is it sufficiently broke in? You were using very light load. Have you installed a reduced tension recoil spring or the gunfixer gas valve?

 

Just some things to consider.

[Racer 27 37]

Thought of something. What was the gas setting? 1 or 2? The bigger the number the bigger the flow.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Racer 27

[IronRonin 19]

Man, we REALLY need sticky threads with new gun info regarding break-in period and gas port checking etc, haha.

 

Your gun is most likely not broken in and it will not reliably run cheapo target ammo until it is. The factory mags are usually THE most reliable and durable, it may have "luckily" fallen at the precise spot to make it pop open.

[Paulyski 2,227]

If the Gun's broken in & your gas area is clean, polish all friction bearing surfaces including the bolt mod & hammer job.

If that doesn't work, add a port.

 

All the info is listed on this forum to make it utterly reliable.

 

I personally wouldn't go with weak springs.

There are other ways of running light loads that don't require spring swaps... (reducing friction & increasing gas)

If you make too much gas, then get the Gunfixers plug.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Paulyski

[LetsKillDave 0]

I put about 100 rounds through it. Interesting suggestion about an improved recoil spring and/or polishing.

 

Based on "biggest return value" for fixing the extraction, what do y'all think it would be?

 

Oh, I picked up the Saiga about 2 weeks ago, cleaned off most of the grease, then ran about 100 rounds through it yesterday on some steel plates.

 

Would still love some suggestions regarding reloading other than "practice"...I'd prefer something that I can a) do in the dark and don't need to worry about the bolt being held open. Hopefully that's not wishful thinking for a Saiga :-)

[Zambidis 90]

Would still love some suggestions regarding reloading other than "practice"...I'd prefer something that I can a) do in the dark and don't need to worry about the bolt being held open. Hopefully that's not wishful thinking for a Saiga :-)

 

Look into getting a mag well. I'm very happy with mine. It makes reloads MUCH quicker and easier. Honestly I think it is one of the best mods I've made to my gun.

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Before you start messing with or polishing anything on your gun, make sure you properly perform the break-in procedures. I recommend shooting about 50-100 high brass loads and then switch to bird(federal value pack 7.5 shot 3 dram 1 1/8 oz shot usually works good, never use Winchester value pack). When you shoot any ammo, always start on the lowest gas setting, ie 1, and adjust from there until your gun cycles properly. I recommend a gunfixrs gas plug as it adds an extra two settings. Once you have completed break-in and if your gun will not cycle the federal rounds then send it in to Cadiz gun works for your free warranty service. Again make sure you keep the gun in it's original configuration just in case you have to send it in. You can also pull your plug and check to see how many gas ports you have. You should have at least 3 unobstructed ports.

 

Also it's a good idea to function test any gun before you count on it for competition of self defense. These guns require a break in period and once done, these are a reliable weapon system. But to many bystanders at these type of functions see a gun that they know nothing about, having all these problems, they assume the s12's are pieces of shit and give them a bad rap.

[PRISONSHANK 70]

Sure didn't look like those shells were ejecting to far from the gun.

Which type of shells were they?

I agree with the whole break in period, looks like a few boxes of 3" buck might smooth her out.

After that try a box of federal 8 shot an see if the hulls are making it 4-5 feet out of the gun.

[oldandslow 3]

Mentioned previously, but not answered, Gas setting 1 or 2?

 

You want 2.

[Gibbles 23]

 

I'm looking forward to my next 3gun match with my S12

 

For mine I had plenty of gas, federal walmart bulk ran fine out of my shotgun, but I try and run the biggest shot I can get, usually 7 1/2 or lower.

 

Try polishing friction areas to start, some 600 grit paper and a dremel felt wheel with polishing compound will do wonders.

[Zambidis 90]

Before you start messing with or polishing anything on your gun, make sure you properly perform the break-in procedures. I recommend shooting about 50-100 high brass loads and then switch to bird(federal value pack 7.5 shot 3 dram 1 1/8 oz shot usually works good, never use Winchester value pack).

 

The parts rubbing together in essence has the same effect as polishing. The difference is that polishing will likely result in things being smoother.

 

I'm looking forward to my next 3gun match with my S12

 

When is the next UT 3 gun match?

[Gibbles 23]

March 20th

[LetsKillDave 0]

March 20th

 

Somebody call the cops, my thread got hijacked!

[LetsKillDave 0]

To get this back on topic: I guess I need to get a Surefire Magwell (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-310/Magwell-Saiga-12-JT/Detail) and a gas adjustment plug (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-190/MD-ARMS-SAIGA-12/Detail).

 

Yes?

[Gibbles 23]

I have the Gas plug, I like it, gives me more options and it's easier to adjust.

[Gibbles 23]

I also have a MD20 drum, runs great.

 

The drum is the main reason why I don't want a magwell quite yet...

I'm thinking about buying a second S12 for a magwell.

[billyjoebob 10]

To get this back on topic: I guess I need to get a Surefire Magwell (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-310/Magwell-Saiga-12-JT/Detail) and a gas adjustment plug (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-190/MD-ARMS-SAIGA-12/Detail).

 

Yes?

 

I watched your video, and agree with prisonshank...your shells aren't ejecting very far from your receiver. That would tell me that the gun is either undergassed, you were using very weak bird shot loads, your gas plug was mis-set to #1, or the gun needs some more break in time (pretty much what everyone has already said).

 

The only thing I'll add is while an MD gunfixr plug is a great device, it won't help an undergassed gun.

 

First thing you need to do is make sure you have three unobstructed gas ports. With that said, if you continue to have problems (even after polishing and continued break in), you may want to consider calling Cadiz for warranty work.

 

Oh...and a Magwell is a must for you. It'll make Saiga mag changes as quick as they are with an AR.