ANOTHER TRIP TO THE RANGE - BHO Problem

[one2za 7]

Well, in order to celebrate tax day , I took off from work, and after some more polishing of the bolt and hammer, headed off for the indoor range this time. (slugs and buckshot allowed only)

She ran beautifully on setting 1 with the following rounds:

 

1. Winchester 2 3/4 1 oz Rifled Hollow Point Slugs - 1600 fps
   
2. Remington 2 3/4 #1 Buckshot - 1250fps
   
3. Winchester 2 3/4 00 Buckshot - 1200fps?
   

I was having a ball until suddenly I had a stovepipe. I removed the cartridge but found that the carrier was stuck in the open position. After some fiddling to no avail, I noticed that the bolt hold-open button was no where in sight, having apparently been sucked up into the receiver. Lighting was poor and there wasn't much I could do, so my range time was cut short.

 

At home I managed to free it up. I'm not sure if it happened on its own or if I pressed the button while firing, but I see now that if I don't press straight upwards but happen to pull the button outward slightly, the BHO rocks away from the frame and can slide up past the rail instead of being stopped by it. I bent the leg of the hammer spring to try to keep some pressure against the side of the BHO. It seems a little better, but only time will tell. The slot where the button comes through could stand to be a little narrower so the fit is tighter and wouldn't let the BHO pivot as much, but I can't figure a way to reduce it.

 

Any certain fixes out there for this problem? (I know, wait for the mythical LRBHO right?)

 

Anyway, aside from that, she's a blast to shoot.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

what kind of hammer are you using? It almost sounds like too much metal may have been removed from the side where the BHO goes. Is the axis pin retainer holding the hammer pin in there good or has the hammer pin backed out a little. It just sounds like there is some 'slop' coming from somehwere that isn't normal.

 

Did you modify your BHO button? You can take too much off and the button will get stuck in there. Good luck with it. Let us know what it was. I'm curious....

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Well, in order to celebrate tax day , I took off from work, and after some more polishing of the bolt and hammer, headed off for the indoor range this time. (slugs and buckshot allowed only)

She ran beautifully on setting 1 with the following rounds:

 

1. Winchester 2 3/4 1 oz Rifled Hollow Point Slugs - 1600 fps
   
2. Remington 2 3/4 #1 Buckshot - 1250fps
   
3. Winchester 2 3/4 00 Buckshot - 1200fps?
   

I was having a ball until suddenly I had a stovepipe. I removed the cartridge but found that the carrier was stuck in the open position. After some fiddling to no avail, I noticed that the bolt hold-open button was no where in sight, having apparently been sucked up into the receiver. Lighting was poor and there wasn't much I could do, so my range time was cut short.

 

At home I managed to free it up. I'm not sure if it happened on its own or if I pressed the button while firing, but I see now that if I don't press straight upwards but happen to pull the button outward slightly, the BHO rocks away from the frame and can slide up past the rail instead of being stopped by it. I bent the leg of the hammer spring to try to keep some pressure against the side of the BHO. It seems a little better, but only time will tell. The slot where the button comes through could stand to be a little narrower so the fit is tighter and wouldn't let the BHO pivot as much, but I can't figure a way to reduce it.

 

Any certain fixes out there for this problem? (I know, wait for the mythical LRBHO right?)

 

Anyway, aside from that, she's a blast to shoot.

 

Check to see if your pistol grip may be interfering with the upward/downward movement of the BHO. You may need to take a bit off the upper RH corner of the PG to keep it out of the way of the BHO.

 

Hope this if helpful.

[longhorn 81]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

[one2za 7]

what kind of hammer are you using? It almost sounds like too much metal may have been removed from the side where the BHO goes. Is the axis pin retainer holding the hammer pin in there good or has the hammer pin backed out a little. It just sounds like there is some 'slop' coming from somehwere that isn't normal.

 

Did you modify your BHO button? You can take too much off and the button will get stuck in there. Good luck with it. Let us know what it was. I'm curious....

Didn't modify anything. Used a Tapco single hook G2 trigger group. There's definitely is a little slop. Will check it out further tomorrow.

Edited April 16, 2010 by one2za

[one2za 7]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

[kresk 10,063]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

what kind of hammer are you using? It almost sounds like too much metal may have been removed from the side where the BHO goes. Is the axis pin retainer holding the hammer pin in there good or has the hammer pin backed out a little. It just sounds like there is some 'slop' coming from somehwere that isn't normal.

 

Did you modify your BHO button? You can take too much off and the button will get stuck in there. Good luck with it. Let us know what it was. I'm curious....

Didn't modify anything. Used a Tapco single hook G2 trigger group. There definitely is a little slop. Will check it out further tomorrow.

Someone had to modify the G2 because they won't work in a S12 without taking material off of the hammer in two spots. I was just wondering if you did your own or bought it modified. Tromix offers a modded version. I think Red Jacket does too.

 

Also, sometimes it looks like the axis pin retainer is in there good and it isn't. That reminds me I want to try one of the flat retainers instead of the wire.

 

+1 on the pistol grip moving and engaging the button. Seems like there may be a couple things working together to cause the failure.

 

Hope you get it figured out. These weapons can be so frustrating, but it's one hell of a feeling when she runs good.

[longhorn 81]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

 

I tried that mod and still had the spring coil slip underneath the BHO.

[padenbrown 2]

this is why i used the origional hammer. you dont have probems like this but 922 whatever i know. use somethin else american lol

[Paulyski 2,227]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

 

I tried that mod and still had the spring coil slip underneath the BHO.

The notch that tritium speaks of is like this:

 

 

 

 

The actual coil should be held in place by the trigger's axis pin.

 

With more & more damn BHO B.S. & the need to hold the damn bolt open for the drums I think it's just time to go to theKrebs safety lever for the task.

 

[hellraiser 6]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

 

I tried that mod and still had the spring coil slip underneath the BHO.

 

i had the same problem a few weeks ago... the groove trick fixed it. well so far anyway. how deep did you file?

[MT Predator 2,294]

My Tromix modded G2 allowed the same to happen. The spring didn't slip, just too much slop allowing the BHO to slip into the receiver. I shimmed it with a washer, will see if it continues. If so, out it will come.

[gkcf 8]

I had this same problem. What I did, was notch the BHO tab for the spring, and then, bend the spring leg over the tab to keep it more secure. This does not fix the side to side slop though. To fix this, I snapped a small hitch pin over the trigger axis pin. This, combined with tension from the hammer spring leg, keeps the tab firmly in place against the side of the receiver. I've fired the gun numerous times since this mod with 0 problems. Everything is still nice and solid.

 

If you like, I can snap a picture later and try and find the package the pin came in (it came with more than one so I kept the bag) to give exact dimensions.

[elia.jon1 1]

i tried to tell yall weeks ago to use your factory hammer.......if you do this there is no modifications.....

 

people buy stuff they already have, and cant figure out why the new thing doesn't work right.......its because it wasn't made for your gun....

 

its close.....well you dont use ar parts in a fal.....so why use rifle parts that arent made for your shotgun?

[one2za 7]

 

Check to see if your pistol grip may be interfering with the upward/downward movement of the BHO. You may need to take a bit off the upper RH corner of the PG to keep it out of the way of the BHO.

 

Hope this if helpful.

This is a saw grip and there is no interference. Thanks

[one2za 7]

 

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

Will definitely do that. Thanks.

[one2za 7]

I had this same problem. What I did, was notch the BHO tab for the spring, and then, bend the spring leg over the tab to keep it more secure. This does not fix the side to side slop though. To fix this, I snapped a small hitch pin over the trigger axis pin. This, combined with tension from the hammer spring leg, keeps the tab firmly in place against the side of the receiver. I've fired the gun numerous times since this mod with 0 problems. Everything is still nice and solid.

 

If you like, I can snap a picture later and try and find the package the pin came in (it came with more than one so I kept the bag) to give exact dimensions.

By all means, please do.

[one2za 7]

OK, now I feel really stupid.

I just checked my paperwork and found that what I really bought and installed was the Tromix modified Fire Control Group, not the Tapco.

Sorry for the misdirection. So my understanding is that no mod was necessary with this one and as it turns out, maybe they took a little too much off?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I'm having the same problems. I noticed that the BHO spring coil was slipping under the BHO lever from recoil when shooting. I think the BHO needs to have more pressure on it from the spring. I am thinking of putting a washer on the pin that holds the BHO in place to keep it from having so much side to side play. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a plan. I will probably try that too.

Suggestion: Try and file a small channel/groove in the BHO where the spring contacts it so that the spring arm will not move and slip off the ledge on the BHO. It is not a matter of spring pressure--just keeping the spring arm in place and immobile.

 

This is a great idea, +1 on that, it works!

[one2za 7]

OK, we just got back from a massive Tea Party here in Indian River County, Florida.

My better half is now going to a Relay for Life event, so I've got the afternoon to tinker with this puppy.

Hopefully nothing gets FUBARed!

[padenbrown 2]

i tried to tell yall weeks ago to use your factory hammer.......if you do this there is no modifications.....

 

people buy stuff they already have, and cant figure out why the new thing doesn't work right.......its because it wasn't made for your gun....

 

its close.....well you dont use ar parts in a fal.....so why use rifle parts that arent made for your shotgun?

said the same thing too.

[one2za 7]

Did both the spring slot mod and the washer mod and it looks like I'm good to go!

The spring end is now bent over and downward and sits in a little slot just as wide as the spring thickness. (cut with a dremel cutting wheel)

The washer installation took out the slop in the Tromix G2 hammer width, and now the BHO barely wobbles at all.

While problems can be a pain, fixing them is fun, and if successful, gives a great sense of satisfaction.

Not sure when I'll get to the range again to try her out. Money's tight right now.

Thanks for everybody's input, and thank God we live in a Republic where we still have some freedoms left!

[Wade Pruetz 103]

i tried to tell yall weeks ago to use your factory hammer.......if you do this there is no modifications.....

 

people buy stuff they already have, and cant figure out why the new thing doesn't work right.......its because it wasn't made for your gun....

 

its close.....well you dont use ar parts in a fal.....so why use rifle parts that arent made for your shotgun?

 

 

This is a board for modding shotguns, if you want to keep yours stock so be it. I have all kinds of foreign/American parts in my gun and it runs just great, certainly a lot better than when Ivan finished working on it in the Motherland. If done right by someone who knows what they are doing these guns are very easy to get working correctly.

Edited April 16, 2010 by NinerRider

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

OK, now I feel really stupid.

I just checked my paperwork and found that what I really bought and installed was the Tromix modified Fire Control Group, not the Tapco.

Sorry for the misdirection. So my understanding is that no mod was necessary with this one and as it turns out, maybe they took a little too much off?

 

I recently modified a G2 that I had laying around. I had the stock hammer and a Tromix modified hammer to refer to for measurements. The Tromix was a few thousandths narrower than the stock hammer, but I had already used the Tromix without any issues, period. Maybe someone got a little carried away or maybe they take them down a little further than the stock hammer to allow for inconsistencies from weapon to weapon. Glad you got it handled though. In Tromix's defense, these weapons, and nearly all AKs, aren't exactly one size fits all guns. In that aspect.... there's nothing like an AR, but that's another addiction.... um.... weapon, lol.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Did both the spring slot mod and the washer mod and it looks like I'm good to go!

The spring end is now bent over and downward and sits in a little slot just as wide as the spring thickness. (cut with a dremel cutting wheel)

The washer installation took out the slop in the Tromix G2 hammer width, and now the BHO barely wobbles at all.

While problems can be a pain, fixing them is fun, and if successful, gives a great sense of satisfaction.

Not sure when I'll get to the range again to try her out. Money's tight right now.

Thanks for everybody's input, and thank God we live in a Republic where we still have some freedoms left!

 

+1

 

and we all learn from these frustrations....

[one2za 7]

OK, now I feel really stupid.

I just checked my paperwork and found that what I really bought and installed was the Tromix modified Fire Control Group, not the Tapco.

Sorry for the misdirection. So my understanding is that no mod was necessary with this one and as it turns out, maybe they took a little too much off?

 

I recently modified a G2 that I had laying around. I had the stock hammer and a Tromix modified hammer to refer to for measurements. The Tromix was a few thousandths narrower than the stock hammer, but I had already used the Tromix without any issues, period. Maybe someone got a little carried away or maybe they take them down a little further than the stock hammer to allow for inconsistencies from weapon to weapon. Glad you got it handled though. In Tromix's defense, these weapons, and nearly all AKs, aren't exactly one size fits all guns. In that aspect.... there's nothing like an AR, but that's another addiction.... um.... weapon, lol.

No need to defend Tromix. I wasn't intending any criticism. They make fine products. Clearly these Saigas tolerances vary quite a bit. I enjoy tinkering.

[gkcf 8]

Oops, forgot about this. Good to see you found something that worked out.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

OK, now I feel really stupid.

I just checked my paperwork and found that what I really bought and installed was the Tromix modified Fire Control Group, not the Tapco.

Sorry for the misdirection. So my understanding is that no mod was necessary with this one and as it turns out, maybe they took a little too much off?

 

I recently modified a G2 that I had laying around. I had the stock hammer and a Tromix modified hammer to refer to for measurements. The Tromix was a few thousandths narrower than the stock hammer, but I had already used the Tromix without any issues, period. Maybe someone got a little carried away or maybe they take them down a little further than the stock hammer to allow for inconsistencies from weapon to weapon. Glad you got it handled though. In Tromix's defense, these weapons, and nearly all AKs, aren't exactly one size fits all guns. In that aspect.... there's nothing like an AR, but that's another addiction.... um.... weapon, lol.

No need to defend Tromix. I wasn't intending any criticism. They make fine products. Clearly these Saigas tolerances vary quite a bit. I enjoy tinkering.

Understood. I think I'm having more fun playing with these S12s than any other weapon I've ever owned.... and learning a great deal as well.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...In Tromix's defense, these weapons, and nearly all AKs, aren't exactly one size fits all guns. In that aspect.... there's nothing like an AR, but that's another addiction.... um.... weapon, lol.

 

Sell your AR's and buy another S-12 and a 5.45x39 rifle, (such as the SGL31), or a Russian rifle in 5.56x45, (RAAC or K-Var, depending on how easily you want mil-spec). For what ~1-1.5 AR's sell for, you could pick up a couple far more reliable weapons, (and some conversion restoration parts and/or ammo)!