light weight rifle alternative for wife

[jimdigriz 580]

It's become apparently lately that my Saigas are too heavy for my wife to wield effectively. She's very slow to shoulder them, and tires out quickly while shooting. This is despite me trying to keep things light on one rifle specifically for her.

 

Her Saiga is about 7 lbs. with no mag. I need to save more than a pound, so no ARs. I don't want a pistol caliber carbine; I want something with more potency. The rifle also needs to be able to mount a red dot.

 

So far I'm considering a Kel Tec SU-16c, and an M1 Carbine. Both weigh about 5 lbs. unloaded. Would anyone with experience with these care to comment on them? I'd be open to other alternatives too.

 

Thanks.

[yakdung 2,926]

I recommended a Mossberg HS410 for my elderly mother. The choke is specifically setup for a close combat pattern. The safety is under thumb and once you load it with buck, you are good to go. Little to no recoil and the foregrip allows you to maintain control.

 

 

Hope this helps,

Yakdung

[ThirtyAughtSix 101]

An M1 Carbine is near "pistol caliber"... Doesn't pack that much of a punch. This for HD or SHTF need to kill all the zombies closing in?

[Heath_h49008 442]

I have a PLR 16, and I will recommend the SU16 or the PLR every time. The only difference being stock and barrel options.

 

Piston AR... light weight... reliable... and a lifetime warranty with an American company.

 

Does it get better?

 

If KelTec wanted to expand the design and create a 12guage based on the piston driven, composite receiver design, I wouldn't be building this Saiga.

[superA 289]

Have you thought of a AR or AK pistol. Maybe even a short barreled 5.45 Saiga with light furniture might do the trick. The Kel-Tec is the first thing that popped in my mind though.

[elvis christ 451]

I had a Kel-Tec su16c. It was definitely light weight, but I wouldn't put my life on it. I had extraction issues with mine, the shell would get stuck in the barrel, and I'd have to knock it out with a cleaning rod.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

How about a Mini 14? Weights 6 pounds, 6 ounces unloaded from the factory. You can stick with wood or synthetic monte carlo style stock, or go with folding/telescoping/etc configurations. And can mount a red dot too. It's a .223 so you can share ammo, and the modern series uses better quality barrels that have much better accuracy than old versions.

 

However, I understand it's only about a pound in weight difference from her Saiga so it might still be too heavy. At 5 pounds unloaded and almost half the price, the Kel Tec SU16 is really hard to beat for this role IMO.

[Heath_h49008 442]

I had a Kel-Tec su16c. It was definitely light weight, but I wouldn't put my life on it. I had extraction issues with mine, the shell would get stuck in the barrel, and I'd have to knock it out with a cleaning rod.

Was it an older one, before they were chrome barreled? I've never had so much as a hiccup from my PLR16.

[jimdigriz 580]

I had a Kel-Tec su16c. It was definitely light weight, but I wouldn't put my life on it. I had extraction issues with mine, the shell would get stuck in the barrel, and I'd have to knock it out with a cleaning rod.

 

Was it a lacquered-coated steel case, or an American brass round?

 

If I get the Kel Tec for her, we will probably only use brass-cased rounds. She doesn't shoot much, so it won't break the bank.

[jimdigriz 580]

An M1 Carbine is near "pistol caliber"... Doesn't pack that much of a punch. This for HD or SHTF need to kill all the zombies closing in?

 

This is mostly for home defense, but yeah, I've always got SHTF in the back of my mind as a possibility.

[Paulry 50]

JD,

Remember, as the weight goes down, the recoil goes up! It might be a problem for practice. It sure won't be for real!

 

Don't know how you can get much lighter than the Saiga 5.45x39 with K-Var poly stock, no other items added and there is no recoil!

 

I had the SUB 2000 in .40 S&W / Glock Mag. and it was more accurate than a Saiga at 25 yards. But it kicked like a 20/12 gauge shotgun! I kid you not, and I used to shoot light weight mountain rifles for hunting in Montana all the time.

 

I would not (or maybe I would) want to meet your wife, sounds like she can hold her own with a firearm! Depends on the situation.

 

 

Frosty

 

Remember Memorial Day!

[jimdigriz 580]

JD,

Remember, as the weight goes down, the recoil goes up! It might be a problem for practice. It sure won't be for real!

...

I had the SUB 2000 in .40 S&W / Glock Mag. and it was more accurate than a Saiga at 25 yards. But it kicked like a 20/12 gauge shotgun! I kid you not, and I used to shoot light weight mountain rifles for hunting in Montana all the time.

I had a Sub 2000 in 9mm that she didn't really have a problem with. I wonder what the SU-16 recoil is like in comparison to that or a Saiga.

 

 

Don't know how you can get much lighter than the Saiga 5.45x39 with K-Var poly stock, no other items added and there is no recoil!

Yep, that's pretty much her setup, plus the Ultimak and Aimpoint Micro. I looked for lighter furniture, but it apparently doesn't exist.

 

Jim

[Jpanzer 1,265]

I would say go with the Kel Tec also. Every review I've read of their rifles has been positive...

[GeorgiaPD 408]

Jim,

 

If an AR15 is not out of the question, then you could check out one of the Carbon 15's from Bushmaster. They come in just over five pounds or so. Just a thought

[Steppe Sweeper 22]

Bushmaster Lady Carbon 15 (4 lbs. of synthetic and comes with its very own matching soft case), but i wish I had a 6lb. vz58 folder for my E&E/72 hr. BOB, if not the SU-16 C model or D12 SBR if your state allows snub rifles

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I.O. Inc STG 2000-C

 

Stormi owns one, and I think it would make a great lightweight SHTF weapon.

Advertised weight by small arms review was 6.5lbs unloaded.

 

Both peach state guns and atlantic firearms sell them

[Jpanzer 1,265]

I.O. Inc STG 2000-C

 

Stormi owns one, and I think it would make a great lightweight SHTF weapon.

Advertised weight by small arms review was 6.5lbs unloaded.

 

Both peach state guns and atlantic firearms sell them

 

 

I own one as well. It is a lighweight rifle. Kel Tec would be lighter still, but only you really know what needs to be a priority in this regard, weight or adaptability to different potential scenarios...

[elvis christ 451]

 

Was it an older one, before they were chrome barreled? I've never had so much as a hiccup from my PLR16.

 

I bought it new in May of 2007, after I graduated college. I don't know if it was a newer one or now, but it would do it every time I shot it. It took about 30 rounds for the incident to occur.

 

 

 

 

Was it a lacquered-coated steel case, or an American brass round?

 

If I get the Kel Tec for her, we will probably only use brass-cased rounds. She doesn't shoot much, so it won't break the bank.

 

I was using good brass cased ammo. I was worried about using the steel case in it, so I went out and blew a bunch of money on brass. Still had problems. I was thinking, 'hell, if I can't even make it work with the expensive stuff, I really have no use for it.' The worst part was that I sold my MAK90, which was my first rifle, with about 5 30 round mags, 3 40 round steel mags, and a 100 round chinese drum, for $400. I hadn't been into buying a bunch of guns, and was just trying to get what I had in the gun back, to fund the purchase of the Kel-tec.

 

After that, I said I wasn't really wanting to buy anything other than AK's. I would like a Daewoo .223 though. And a PTR91. And a bunch of other stuff.

[rob-cubed 74]

I have had no issues with my SU-16C, bought around 2008. It's pretty darn accurate, feeds well from every mag I own, and eats both steel and brass cased ammo. It's feather light. I gotta say for a 5.56 range gun I prefer it to my AR in some ways, but then I'm not an AR guy.

 

However, the build does feel rather flimsy due to all the plastic, especially the folding stock hinge. I wouldn't pick it for a SHTF gun, though I would take it backpacking.

[Heath_h49008 442]

I personally LOATHE the folding stock on the SU16 "plain Jane"... But the rest of the weapon is top notch.

 

Did you send it to/contact KelTec? Do you still have it?

 

If you hate it, I might be able to give her a good home.

[cellsworth 21]

You could check out a VZ58. They are substantially lighter than an AK, yet still pack 7.62X39 punch. I have one with a side-folding stock and a micro Aimpoint on an NEA rail (which allows for perfect co-witnessing with the iron sights). Czechpoint is a good place to get them.

[jimdigriz 580]

You could check out a VZ58. They are substantially lighter than an AK, yet still pack 7.62X39 punch. I have one with a side-folding stock and a micro Aimpoint on an NEA rail (which allows for perfect co-witnessing with the iron sights). Czechpoint is a good place to get them.

 

Would it be possible for you to weigh your setup? Wikipedia lists 6.42 lbs. as the weight for a generic VZ58, but that would unfortunately not be a large weight savings. That is, if that is the stock weight. If I could get 6.5 lbs unloaded but including Aimpoint Micro, I think we might actually have a good possibility.

 

How is the reliability of the VZ58? I know the design is not the same as that of an AK, just curious how it stacks up in comparison.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[G O B 3,516]

Get her a Mossberg .22 boys rifles are sized smaller and the .22 is cheap to shoot. Make shooting FUN for her, and she will want a bigger gun after awhile!

[jimdigriz 580]

Get her a Mossberg .22 boys rifles are sized smaller and the .22 is cheap to shoot. Make shooting FUN for her, and she will want a bigger gun after awhile!

 

I'd like for her to have fun shooting; right now she only does it to be ready to defend the family.

 

She already is fine shooting .223 and 5.45, it's just that those rifles are too heavy for her to wield effectively.

[vbrtrmn 167]

I just got a Mini-14, the base weight is 6 lb 6oz, but there are aftermarket stocks, which can lighten it up a bit.

 

Honestly, I'd recommend just going to a gun show and have her pick-up a bunch of different rifles

[cellsworth 21]

You could check out a VZ58. They are substantially lighter than an AK, yet still pack 7.62X39 punch. I have one with a side-folding stock and a micro Aimpoint on an NEA rail (which allows for perfect co-witnessing with the iron sights). Czechpoint is a good place to get them.

 

Would it be possible for you to weigh your setup? Wikipedia lists 6.42 lbs. as the weight for a generic VZ58, but that would unfortunately not be a large weight savings. That is, if that is the stock weight. If I could get 6.5 lbs unloaded but including Aimpoint Micro, I think we might actually have a good possibility.

 

How is the reliability of the VZ58? I know the design is not the same as that of an AK, just curious how it stacks up in comparison.

 

I will try to weigh it and get some pics for you. It will probably be a few days on the weight, as I don't have a scale. All I know is that it definitely feels significantly lighter than a comparably equipped AK. They are not cheap though.

 

The reliability is excellent. There would be no problems in that regard. Nalioth has done a write up detailing the differences between the VZ58 and the AK.

[6500rpm 670]

A Tantal with a good plastic stock might be a good choice. My tantal in my lightest AK, has a fairly low recoil round, and high capacity mags. The only thing I hate is the wire stock which is an easy fix. Hook her up with some tritium sights and you're good to go for HD as long as she doesn't miss.

[cellsworth 21]

The VZ58 with NEA rail and Aimpoint micro weighs about 6 lbs. 14 oz. unloaded w/o a magazine in place.

[Azrial 1,091]

Have you considered a bullpup built on an AK? Not much lighter, but most of the weight is carried close to the body. That of course can make a huge difference. There is also the FN PS90 Bullpup...

 

 

 

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Red Jacket shootrite Katana..

 

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