gunfixer plug or md arms plug

[tim2shu 48]

The AK design is simple.

 

The solid gas plug design is simple.........no springs.

 

Adding a spring inside the gas plug adds complexity and unnecessary variables.

 

Springs are the first thing to need replacement .

 

The GAS PLUG SPRING is an EXTRA unnecessary variable.

That SOLID hard steel plug is not going to wearing out.

 

A "set and forget" is nice but is very limited due to the life span of a spring.................no thank you.

 

I will have to just BUST MY ASS, BREAK A SWEAT and turn that gas plug to a new setting for different ammo.........................oh the work involved.

 

 

Solid gas plugs require you to be responsible and know what you are running down that barrel.

 

 

UNNECESSARY VARIABLES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frosty

 

Makes a lot of sence

[Chowderhead72 13]

Deleted for clarity

Edited September 20, 2010 by Chowderhead72

[Chowderhead72 13]

The AK design is simple.

 

The solid gas plug design is simple.........no springs.

 

Adding a spring inside the gas plug adds complexity and unnecessary variables.

 

Springs are the first thing to need replacement .

 

The GAS PLUG SPRING is an EXTRA unnecessary variable.

That SOLID hard steel plug is not going to wearing out.

 

A "set and forget" is nice but is very limited due to the life span of a spring.................no thank you.

 

I will have to just BUST MY ASS, BREAK A SWEAT and turn that gas plug to a new setting for different ammo.........................oh the work involved.

 

 

Solid gas plugs require you to be responsible and know what you are running down that barrel.

 

 

UNNECESSARY VARIABLES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frosty

 

Agreed. I do not think the idea of an auto plug is stupid per se but I do feel using an auto gas plug and hoping it will cure all and never fail you are living a fantasy. Springs and valves fail. If you would like to add this variable to your shooting experience by all means do so. The Saiga was designed and built for a purpose and that purpose was not to become a garbage disposal for crap ammo; it was built to kill and demolish and when properly fed it will do so. Altering a Saiga to shoot target loads and bulk low brass is much like trying to make a wolf a family friendly house pet; I am sure it can be done but why? My Saiga has never FT anything when using appropriate ammunition.

 

ETA: IF I were to chose a different plug it would be the MD or the GF plugs. Maybe someday when my shoulder becomes soft and I must shoot sub-standard loads due to sandy vagina I will consider....

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

The AK design is simple.

 

The solid gas plug design is simple.........no springs.

 

Adding a spring inside the gas plug adds complexity and unnecessary variables.

 

Springs are the first thing to need replacement .

 

The GAS PLUG SPRING is an EXTRA unnecessary variable.

That SOLID hard steel plug is not going to wearing out.

 

A "set and forget" is nice but is very limited due to the life span of a spring.................no thank you.

 

I will have to just BUST MY ASS, BREAK A SWEAT and turn that gas plug to a new setting for different ammo.........................oh the work involved.

 

 

Solid gas plugs require you to be responsible and know what you are running down that barrel.

 

 

UNNECESSARY VARIABLES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frosty

 

Agreed. I do not think the idea of an auto plug is stupid per se but I do feel using an auto gas plug and hoping it will cure all and never fail you are living a fantasy. Springs and valves fail. If you would like to add this variable to your shooting experience by all means do so. The Saiga was designed and built for a purpose and that purpose was not to become a garbage disposal for crap ammo; it was built to kill and demolish and when properly fed it will do so. Altering a Saiga to shoot target loads and bulk low brass is much like trying to make a wolf a family friendly house pet; I am sure it can be done but why? My Saiga has never FT anything when using appropriate ammunition.

 

ETA: IF I were to chose a different plug it would be the MD or the GF plugs. Maybe someday when my shoulder becomes soft and I must shoot sub-standard loads due to sandy vagina I will consider....

 

Makes a lot of SENSE...

[psl sniper 963]

ETA: IF I were to chose a different plug it would be the MD or the GF plugs. Maybe someday when my shoulder becomes soft and I must shoot sub-standard loads due to sandy vagina I will consider....

i use the bulk loads for PRACTICE. if i had tons of cash to shoot nothing but highbrass ammo all the time i would. i actually like to go shoot my guns. not just have them sitting around looking good. you want to talk about a HARD LOAD for your SOFT shoulder. try shooting some magnum buckshot out of my single action 10 gauge.

[Shadoh 16]

I like the bulk stuff just for blasting as well. Even then it burns through the cash pretty fast ). Chowderhead says he will buy a round of slugs for everybody. He will pull the cash out of his non sandy vagina )

Edited September 21, 2010 by Shadoh

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

ETA: IF I were to chose a different plug it would be the MD or the GF plugs. Maybe someday when my shoulder becomes soft and I must shoot sub-standard loads due to sandy vagina I will consider....

 

 

i use the bulk loads for PRACTICE. if i had tons of cash to shoot nothing but highbrass ammo all the time i would. i actually like to go shoot my guns. not just have them sitting around looking good. you want to talk about a HARD LOAD for your SOFT shoulder. try shooting some magnum buckshot out of my single action 10 gauge.

 

Well shit, let's do a magnum slug... I'm game...

[Frosty 9]

He will pull the cash out of his non sandy vagina.

 

Surfs up!!

Edited September 21, 2010 by Frosty

[psl sniper 963]

I like the bulk stuff just for blasting as well. Even then it burns through the cash pretty fast ). Chowderhead says he will buy a round of slugs for everybody. He will pull the cash out of his non sandy vagina )

 

oh man that made me laugh

[psl sniper 963]

ive shot the magnum slugs out of the 10 gauge, not quite as bad as i was expecting. you definantly feel it. anyone whose game for trying it out, scoot on down to grants new mexico, and look me up.

[Gunfixr 76]

Well, hasn't this become a nice clusterfuck.

To Tac 47, I haven't said anything about your autoplug, as I haven't even held one. But I do have one now, and will test it soon. It will either work, or it won't.

I did talk about your regular plug, and I stand behind what I said. However, it can be noted that even most of the cheapest ammo, the types I wasn't too worried about cycling, do work with my plug provided the gun is set up properly.

This is nothing new, as no plug will make up for an undergassed gun. What you did was overgas all of the lower settings, so as long as no high powered ammo is used, your manual plug will be fine.

As for the tool notches versus holes, that was Mikes idea, and it is a good one. We discussed holes versus slots when he wanted to add it to my plug, and slots were agreed on simply because they were more versatile. In fact, I unscrewed the plug from the FA S12 about a month ago with the dust cover, of all things.

As for Mikes plug, I have yet to hold one, I only have the pics and description to go on. If I am wrong in my assessment, Mike will clear it for me, I'm sure. As it may be remembered, my original design had 3 settings. It became 4 with the addition of a "+" and "-" added to "1", which was also Mikes idea, as it accentuated his drum. It appears to me that he has added a "+" and "-" to "2" as well. I don't see it's necessity, but it does allow more precise tweaking. I see he did add an extra set of settings at 180 degrees. That was actually a terrific idea. With one set, you can actually be as much as 1 whole turn off, because of the variances in the gas block threads. This cuts that down to no more than 1/2 turn off.

Also, he added a deeper counterbore. I had done this sometime ago, and he is aware of this. I also have several like this in the field now, my personal gun has one like this. Its purpose is to allow more room for crud and fouling. It does have one drawback, which has kept me from making it standard. On an undergassed gun, specifically one that is right on the verge of not working, the counterbore will keep it from working with weak loads, as it increases the size of the gas expansion chamber a bit.

 

 

Oh, and I cancelled my Business Membership a few days ago, so I can say what I want about it.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

ive shot the magnum slugs out of the 10 gauge, not quite as bad as i was expecting. you definantly feel it. anyone whose game for trying it out, scoot on down to grants new mexico, and look me up.

 

I might take you up on that...

[psl sniper 963]

caged. sent you a pm.

[Chowderhead72 13]

 

i use the bulk loads for PRACTICE. if i had tons of cash to shoot nothing but highbrass ammo all the time i would. i actually like to go shoot my guns. not just have them sitting around looking good. you want to talk about a HARD LOAD for your SOFT shoulder. try shooting some magnum buckshot out of my single action 10 gauge.

 

Practice? Practicing trigger pull? Shooting bird shot and target loads will not prepare you for the power, recoil, or ability to hit a target (unless that target is less than 20 feet away) and certainly not follow up shots. Bird and target loads will help with handling skills but other than that just for fun.

 

I will not be buying slugs for any of you; I will let Uncle Obama do that for you..

[psl sniper 963]

 

i use the bulk loads for PRACTICE. if i had tons of cash to shoot nothing but highbrass ammo all the time i would. i actually like to go shoot my guns. not just have them sitting around looking good. you want to talk about a HARD LOAD for your SOFT shoulder. try shooting some magnum buckshot out of my single action 10 gauge.

 

Practice? Practicing trigger pull? Shooting bird shot and target loads will not prepare you for the power, recoil, or ability to hit a target (unless that target is less than 20 feet away) and certainly not follow up shots. Bird and target loads will help with handling skills but other than that just for fun.

 

I will not be buying slugs for any of you; I will let Uncle Obama do that for you..

ummm no. praticing shooting in general. not to mention i just enjoy shooting. i do run magnum rnds once in a while, but i just usually keep the around for home defense. i have no problems with recoil, i shoot a ten gauge single action quite a bit also.

[psl sniper 963]

P.S. have youre uncle obama,(he aint my uncle) get brenneke KO slugs for me.

Edited September 22, 2010 by psl sniper

[Todzilla 0]

anyone have any input with mikes new plug? or should i go with the gun fixer?

 

I'm just a newb, but I wanted to throw in my two cents:

 

I have a late 2009 model Saiga 12. It pretty much cycled everything with the factory plug but I hated the adjustment (push in the little spring and pry left or right with a tool). So I ordered the Gunfixer. Basically from the time I installed the Gunfixer I can safely say 99% of the time I use either setting "-1" or "2" and almost NEVER had a FTE. I think I had some super low brass federal I had to bump up to setting 3, but my main ammo is Remington. Easy to get in my area, cheap, etc.

 

So like I said, maybe I'm just lucky, but with my Gunfixer set on -1 or 2, I can cycle any Remington ammo, from 000 magnum BK to low brass 7.5 birdshot and everything in between. I follow the "if it aint broke dont fix it motto", so having a plug with even more settings might be cool, but I barely use all of the four on the Gunfixer as it is.

 

A "auto-plug" seems attractive, if it's "tuned" to give you the ideal pressure for every shot, no matter what the round. With that theory, you could mix and match your rounds if you wanted too and never have to adjust the plug while firing.

 

Ultimate irony would be using a Saiga with a MD20 drum with a TAC47 auto plug with mixed rounds: just load it up with anything that will fit and let your trigger finger fly!

 

BTW: I do own a MD ARMS 20 round drum. I am interested in hearing more info on the TAC47 auto plug (from "independent" users actually using it).

 

But long story short: I have a Gunfixer. I use two settings 99% of the time. Cycles almost anything (that I use) almost a 100% of the time. Good luck psl sniper, hope this helps...

[psl sniper 963]

a little late but thanks for the info. i probably would have been just fine with gunfxr, but the v plug was on sale for 20.00 bucks free shipping. soo i went the route of least of expense.

 

its a little funny how this thread devolved into a debate between md arms, and tac industries. the autoplug wasnt even in my original post.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

a little late but thanks for the info. i probably would have been just fine with gunfxr, but the v plug was on sale for 20.00 bucks free shipping. soo i went the route of least of expense.

 

its a little funny how this thread devolved into a debate between md arms, and tac industries. the autoplug wasnt even in my original post.

 

But the autoplug...

[psl sniper 963]

a little late but thanks for the info. i probably would have been just fine with gunfxr, but the v plug was on sale for 20.00 bucks free shipping. soo i went the route of least of expense.

 

its a little funny how this thread devolved into a debate between md arms, and tac industries. the autoplug wasnt even in my original post.

 

But the autoplug...

no theres already threads for the auto plug. you go now

[psl sniper 963]

recieved my v plug today, very nice. thanks mike.

[superdrag67 11]

a little late but thanks for the info. i probably would have been just fine with gunfxr, but the v plug was on sale for 20.00 bucks free shipping. soo i went the route of least of expense.

 

its a little funny how this thread devolved into a debate between md arms, and tac industries. the autoplug wasnt even in my original post.

 

Thats because mike has to make sure he bashes anybody who makes a competing product. Sometimes this place is worse than arfcom. I could care less about TAC47s plug or anybody elses so I have no dog in this fight. Its childish and immature and if I didn't know any better I would think mike is a 14 year old schoolgirl just pretending to be a adult man.

 

He even joined our little local forum just to bash the Promag drums somebody made a thread about. Who knows how or why he found the thread. Pathetic, IMO. If your products are great then just let your products speak for themselves. Shut the hell up and quit being such a douche.

 

In most any other industry, openly putting down another company and their products so harshly like mike does, whether you are right or not, would be detrimental to your business. mike is just lucky that isn't the case in the gun industry and there is no need to be professional(in attitude).

[Chowderhead72 13]

Wow!!! Let the flame war begin...

[psl sniper 963]

i know im going to catch hell for this. but im on mikes side. this may not be true, but it seems like alot of his ideas get copied. lets look at the drums, promag more or less copied them directly. the gunfxr plug was his design (also alledgedly copied) it seems like whenever he gets an idea or announces a new product somone else copies it , which is why were still waiting for double stacks. i dont blame him. id probably be pissed too.

 

now im not a dedicated md fanboy. i own all of 2 of his products, the v plug and the drum. (both of which are outstanding qaulity) i also own 2 promag 12 rnd drums. why? because theyre nice compact drums. i love these little things.

 

im not defending anyone here, if a product works im all for it.

 

let the flaming commence.

[Paulyski 2,227]

a little late but thanks for the info. i probably would have been just fine with gunfxr, but the v plug was on sale for 20.00 bucks free shipping. soo i went the route of least of expense.

 

its a little funny how this thread devolved into a debate between md arms, and tac industries. the autoplug wasnt even in my original post.

 

Thats because mike has to make sure he bashes anybody who makes a competing product. Sometimes this place is worse than arfcom. I could care less about TAC47s plug or anybody elses so I have no dog in this fight. Its childish and immature and if I didn't know any better I would think mike is a 14 year old schoolgirl just pretending to be a adult man.

 

He even joined our little local forum just to bash the Promag drums somebody made a thread about. Who knows how or why he found the thread. Pathetic, IMO. If your products are great then just let your products speak for themselves. Shut the hell up and quit being such a douche.

 

In most any other industry, openly putting down another company and their products so harshly like mike does, whether you are right or not, would be detrimental to your business. mike is just lucky that isn't the case in the gun industry and there is no need to be professional(in attitude).

 

Shut the hell up and quit being such a douche. dressedindrag67

Edited September 24, 2010 by Paulyski

[hobbyshooter 59]

the gunfxr plug was his design (also alledgedly copied) it seems like whenever he gets an idea or announces a new product somone else copies it , which is why were still waiting for double stacks. i dont blame him. id probably be pissed too.

 

Actually GUNFIXER designed the gunfixer plug. They had a manufacturing agreement that went south for some unknown reason, so MD released their own manual gas cam.

 

The MD grip is even called the "MOLOT" grip. Which IMO was a brilliant copy and is the best looking grip on the market.

 

The drum very closely resembles the USAS drum.

 

They are all great products at a great value so I'm not bashing MD. Just clearing up some confusion on your part.

Edited September 24, 2010 by hobbyshooter

[Mephis 82]

Ordered an MD drum yesterday as well as a TAC47 auto plug. (Thanks for that insanely fast shipping Mike! Just Wow, next day!)

 

Pissing contests don't really make me change my mind on what products I want to own. (Unless in the case of promag, or AA, where I will never own or even begin to consider one of their products due to how much they screwed over everyone here, regardless what they make or at any price.)

In the end, I want to obtain a quality product that suits my needs. I entirely understand, from a business standpoint how infuriating it can be to have your designs ripped off and how this can create a riff between companies, but that's for them to sort out and not the consumer. I do wish they would have taken their argument to private messages, though, as this doesn't help them or the image of the forum.

 

 

All in all, if a product interests you, give it a try! I really like the concept behind the auto plug and believe that even if it doesn't work perfectly for me out of the box, down the road someone here will come up with a tweak or mod to make it all it can be. I'm sure out of the box it will more than likely work fine for my uses, and if it doesn't, I'll be sure to let you know.

I find the development of accessories for the saiga to be one of the most exciting fields of design and innovation around, with so many people coming up with new and unique ideals all the time, and managing to start their own businesses out of their garage.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Mephis

[psl sniper 963]

the gunfxr plug was his design (also alledgedly copied) it seems like whenever he gets an idea or announces a new product somone else copies it , which is why were still waiting for double stacks. i dont blame him. id probably be pissed too.

 

Actually GUNFIXER designed the gunfixer plug. They had a manufacturing agreement that went south for some unknown reason, so MD released their own manual gas cam.

 

The MD grip is even called the "MOLOT" grip. Which IMO was a brilliant copy and is the best looking grip on the market.

 

The drum very closely resembles the USAS drum.

 

They are all great products at a great value so I'm not bashing MD. Just clearing up some confusion on your part.

 

and now i know. as stated they where just observations.

Edited September 24, 2010 by psl sniper

[Chowderhead72 13]

.

 

 

All in all, if a product interests you, give it a try! I really like the concept behind the auto plug and believe that even if it doesn't work perfectly for me out of the box, down the road someone here will come up with a tweak or mod to make it all it can be. I'm sure out of the box it will more than likely work fine for my uses, and if it doesn't, I'll be sure to let you know.

I find the development of accessories for the saiga to be one of the most exciting fields of design and innovation around, with so many people coming up with new and unique ideals all the time, and managing to start their own businesses out of their garage.

 

Well said! Agreed 100%

[MT Predator 2,294]

In the midst of the dick waving contest and the related posts in this thread specifically referring to collecting data somehow, whether it is tapping the gas block to measure gas pressure or an accelerometer of some sort, I started to wonder what some of these companies are doing to design/test/benchmark their products to protect themselves legally.

I know we are dealing with a basic firearm in the first place but when folks start "creating" critical components and mass marketing them to S12 owners, is there any entity that regulates the manufacture of certain parts to ensure they are safe?

As someone referred to these gas plugs as trinkets, I disagree. A trinket may be a flashlight holder, pistol grip, etc. Something like an Auto Plug is a critical component and if it does over gas a gun, bad things start to happen which could lead to a catastrophic failure of the weapon with prolonged use and lead to bodily injury. Same goes for a regular gas plug if set wrong.

If I set a Gunfixer, MD, or even a stock plug wrong, shoot it a lot to where something breaks and I end up with a gas piston through the dust cover and into my face or something, I fucked up. If I trust a product like an Auto Plug to "think" for me and the same happens, see you guys in court, hope you have your shit together. See what I am getting at?

Are you guys making this stuff holding any credentials to do so? Not accusing Nate, Mike, or Cliff of simply tinkering and building shit in the garage but hell, we got another Joe on here trying to build a rifle to fire aircraft ammo.

We know who I am talking about, hope you are above average with your math skills bro. What you are designing may kill you and others in your intitial testing unless you fire the bitch remotely from a bunker. I am not kidding either as I do not think you posess any degrees in Engineering or Metalurgy which might be helpful in such an endeavor as does with manufacturing critical firearm parts.

Now, back to my Rotary Wing Flying Jeep project.