TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 My stock gas plug actually is set up pretty well. It bottoms out just past setting 2. When I had the gas block off, I screwed in the gas plug to see how it regulated to ports and it appear to be set up properly. Setting 2 was completely unobstructed and setting 1 only had a small opening. It's still probably too much gas for a 3" magnum though. I just think that there's too much variability in required gas flow to be able to 100% reliably shoot bulk pack birdshot up to 3" magnums. I guess that's where an aftermarket gas plug comes in. It appears I'm slightly overgassed with 3" magnums, but I still don't have enough gas flow to 100% reliably shoot bulk pack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrOneEyedBoh 14 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Mike, On the pistons.. If you have NO issues with cycling etc, would one still benefit from using a booster? Or should I just go with the SS ones? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Mike, On the pistons.. If you have NO issues with cycling etc, would one still benefit from using a booster? Or should I just go with the SS ones? Isn't that self explanatory? I'd just get both if you aren't sure, I'm kinda wishing I did now. I just got it because I was interested by it and figure I can offset its performance improvements with the auto-plug possibly, if it's too much. Plus I have a 22" full choke barrel and I'd like to eventually cut it down in the future, but really don't want my ports opened up because I don't get much fouling in the gas block currently. Edited March 27, 2011 by Tombs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 My stock gas plug actually is set up pretty well. It bottoms out just past setting 2. When I had the gas block off, I screwed in the gas plug to see how it regulated to ports and it appear to be set up properly. Setting 2 was completely unobstructed and setting 1 only had a small opening. It's still probably too much gas for a 3" magnum though. I just think that there's too much variability in required gas flow to be able to 100% reliably shoot bulk pack birdshot up to 3" magnums. I guess that's where an aftermarket gas plug comes in. It appears I'm slightly overgassed with 3" magnums, but I still don't have enough gas flow to 100% reliably shoot bulk pack. Do you know the exact 3" shells you were using? Also out of what mag did this happen? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) 3" Winchester Super X magnum 00 Buckshot 15 pellets. Sold at walmart in a 15 pack box. The mag was a factory Izhmash 8 round mag. Edited March 27, 2011 by TwentyNizzo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Mike, On the pistons.. If you have NO issues with cycling etc, would one still benefit from using a booster? Or should I just go with the SS ones? I don't really see a need if there are no issues and the SS one should be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) That reminds me Mike. If you have a pressure bleed off system like the tac auto plug, wouldn't its effectiveness be decreased significantly because it requires lower pressure to move the puck? (Or does it?) In other words, since the system was sprung for the factory puck, wouldn't it technically not bleed off at the right amount of pressure with a lighter puck? You much better understand pressure curves and what's going on in there than I do. Then again, I'm not totally sure about the pressure curves being different since the puck pushes as opposed to slaps. So maybe the auto plug would work the same? I don't have much money or ammo on hand to test, and would rather have some data before I start playing with things. I know you may not be able to say with 100% certainty but maybe a little explaining would elaborate on it enough for me to have my ideals corrected. Also have a ton of 1911 spring weights. I think I'll experiment with those as well, I'll start off with a 22LB spring and see how she goes. Doesn't feel that much heavier than the stock weight. Edited March 27, 2011 by Tombs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 3" Winchester Super X magnum 00 Buckshot 15 pellets. Sold at walmart in a 15 pack box. The mag was a factory Izhmash 8 round mag. Have you tried any 3" slugs or turkey rounds? If the buck did that they will likely be worst. That is still surprising from a factory 8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I have not tried any 3" slugs, walmart didn't have any that I saw. I have fired 3" slugs when the gun was stock with the 5 rd. mag and of course had no issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 That reminds me Mike. If you have a pressure bleed off system like the tac auto plug, wouldn't its effectiveness be decreased significantly because it requires lower pressure to move the puck? (Or does it?) In other words, since the system was sprung for the factory puck, wouldn't it technically not bleed off at the right amount of pressure with a lighter puck? You much better understand pressure curves and what's going on in there than I do. Then again, I'm not totally sure about the pressure curves being different since the puck pushes as opposed to slaps. So maybe the auto plug would work the same? I don't have much money or ammo on hand to test, and would rather have some data before I start playing with things. I am thinking the pressure is marginally differnt with the Booster as it is so fast of a pressure build. That the benifits from the Booster are because there is less weight to push meaning slightly faster velocity from the same PSI. Also more of this energy is now carried in the bolt carrier than before because of the pistons lighter weight. Once the piston reaches the limits of it's travel all energy stored in it is lost in the gas block. The heavier the piston the more energy is lost. With the Booster 2/3 of that previosly lost energy is now stored in the bolt carrier and isn't lost when the piston bottoms out. As far as the Auto Plug. I honestly haven't wrapped my head around the 2 concept together much. I think though that the Booster would hold all benifits or negatives of the increased energy. I know the Auto Plug is not intended for 3". Certain 2 3/4 high brass has been in question too. For those reasons I wouldn't suggest high brass ammos with the 2 in combination. The Booster is fine with high brass though as long there is adaquate gas adjustment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well, I'll be trying out your stainless steel piston very soon, at $10 I simply couldn't pass it up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 That reminds me Mike. If you have a pressure bleed off system like the tac auto plug, wouldn't its effectiveness be decreased significantly because it requires lower pressure to move the puck? (Or does it?) In other words, since the system was sprung for the factory puck, wouldn't it technically not bleed off at the right amount of pressure with a lighter puck? You much better understand pressure curves and what's going on in there than I do. Then again, I'm not totally sure about the pressure curves being different since the puck pushes as opposed to slaps. So maybe the auto plug would work the same? I don't have much money or ammo on hand to test, and would rather have some data before I start playing with things. I am thinking the pressure is marginally differnt with the Booster as it is so fast of a pressure build. That the benifits from the Booster are because there is less weight to push meaning slightly faster velocity from the same PSI. Also more of this energy is now carried in the bolt carrier than before because of the pistons lighter weight. Once the piston reaches the limits of it's travel all energy stored in it is lost in the gas block. The heavier the piston the more energy is lost. With the Booster 2/3 of that previosly lost energy is now stored in the bolt carrier and isn't lost when the piston bottoms out. As far as the Auto Plug. I honestly haven't wrapped my head around the 2 concept together much. I think though that the Booster would hold all benifits or negatives of the increased energy. I know the Auto Plug is not intended for 3". Certain 2 3/4 high brass has been in question too. For those reasons I wouldn't suggest high brass ammos with the 2 in combination. The Booster is fine with high brass though as long there is adaquate gas adjustment. What you just said there makes me think running the gas system fairly hot and running a slightly heavier recoil spring might be just the ticket, as long as it isn't slamming the front trunnion too hard. When I get time I'll step through all my 1911 spring weights and maybe try a buffer and see which combo gets me the best compromise for running some low brass and not causing damage with high brass. I feel like I might be onto something here. The ultimate goal is making the gun as reliable as possible with the broadest amount of defensive ammunition available, while still retaining the ability to run some garbage ammo for fun, all while not needing to adjust anything. I'm sure my front spring is nearing the end of its useful life anyway, since the gun is a 2001 model. I really never intend to run 3" as there's not much reason for me to stock pile it since it doesn't work in the drum, and just causes a lot of extra wear and tear for minimal benefit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aeternus 7 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Can't wait to try the booster puck out, i'll be testing it with 50 rounds Winchester Universal, 50 rounds Estate #8 Shot and 50 rounds of Federal #6. 25 from the shoulder and 25 from the hip with each of the three ammo's using an MDArms 20 Round Drum, 5 round factory mag and 10 round AGP mag. Will also be using the MDarms V-Plug so i'll be switching the settings around to see if I can get it working on a lower power than the 5 setting and checking often to see if it is overgassed and hitting the rear trunnion.. Also, Have a question for you Mike, I know this booster puck is designed for low brass which is what I will be testing, but I was wondering if it would also work with high brass and slugs using the V-Plug on let's say setting 1? Cause my gun is already under gassed. Edited March 27, 2011 by Aeternus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Mike; You keep that CNC turning 24/7!! I'm including these with all my retail Vertical Charging Handle additions now to offset any possible effect of the small amount of extra weight at the carrier just in case my additions land on borderline undergassed guns & I sure don't want you to run out come time for me to restock! Stellar reviews thus far brother! Keep this shit coming! I gotta wonder though... If a Booster combined with the massive friction reduction of the level I've brought GlassBolt to can overcome even the severely under-gassed guns, ie, 3 tiny ports smaller than .07 or guns with partially obstructed ports without port work? Unfortunately, I don't have any vodka specials to test the theory on at the moment. If you have any & you're down for a free sample & test, send it's bolt, carrier & hammer out here & I'll get it done so you can test. Anyhow, Back to the Grindstone for Pauly... Godspeed Brother! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
butch1911 12 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Mike; You keep that CNC turning 24/7!! I'm including these with all my retail Vertical Charging Handle additions now to offset any possible effect of the small amount of extra weight at the carrier just in case my additions land on borderline undergassed guns & I sure don't want you to run out come time for me to restock! Stellar reviews thus far brother! Keep this shit coming! I gotta wonder though... If a Booster combined with the massive friction reduction of the level I've brought GlassBolt to can overcome even the severely under-gassed guns, ie, 3 tiny ports smaller than .07 or guns with partially obstructed ports without port work? Unfortunately, I don't have any vodka specials to test the theory on at the moment. If you have any & you're down for a free sample & test, send it's bolt, carrier & hammer out here & I'll get it done so you can test. Anyhow, Back to the Grindstone for Pauly... Godspeed Brother! Pauly, My gun is a vodka special. I ordered the booster piston. Once I get it and you get a chance to finish my parts I'll try them together and post the results. I am crossing my fingers for some good results. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 The more I think about this, the more I believe I am simply going to run the booster puck all the time. I originally thought I would just use it with bulk pack, but if I can appropriately control the gas flow with the V-plug and high brass it seems as it you'd get less fouling compared to the increased gas needed to run the stock puck. The real question is whether or not the booster puck with the V-plug on setting 1 will still be too much gas with 3" magnum slugs. I'm also wondering if the booster puck will also be the ticket to a functional DIY 11-12" SBS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Mine (booster) showed today and I need to get to the range, but as for the shit slinging, it's completely different than my KA puck. It's non magnetic and I'm still betting 7075 aluminum and the dish is VERY mild compared to the KA. Looking straight down in a picture they look a lot alike, but in 3D (in hand) they are very different and my bet is once the guys at KA get one in hand they're going to realize the whole deal was blown way out or proportion. I'm looking forword to running some rounds just to see for myself what the difference in weight equates to in terms of how it cycles. Other than a whole new weight class as far as I'm concerned every puck on the market is just turned off round stock, Mikes the only one that's offered it at a decent price and for the life of me I can't see what all the drama was over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Mine (booster) showed today and I need to get to the range, but as for the shit slinging, it's completely different than my KA puck. It's non magnetic and I'm still betting 7075 aluminum and the dish is VERY mild compared to the KA. Looking straight down in a picture they look a lot alike, but in 3D (in hand) they are very different and my bet is once the guys at KA get one in hand they're going to realize the whole deal was blown way out or proportion. I'm looking forword to running some rounds just to see for myself what the difference in weight equates to in terms of how it cycles. Other than a whole new weight class as far as I'm concerned every puck on the market is just turned off round stock, Mikes the only one that's offered it at a decent price and for the life of me I can't see what all the drama was over. If you want to see some crazy drama you should check out the thread on the AZ forum link on page 2 of this thread. I tried and tried to explain the difference but KA and his allies just wouldn't read. I keep showing them where they were wrong even so. Finally got locked. I couldn't believe the blind stubbornness! What a bunch of tools! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Just to let people know i have a 3 port gun (dont know the port sizes yet) my bolt is shaped and polished to the point it looks like chrome and I'm running the booster piston and v-plug and she will still just barely fire federal 7 1/2 oz in a md 20 drum with the spring wound 2 times. I have to pull the gun into my shoulder pretty hard in order not to get fte's. Btw fires fine from the hip with the stock mag, which it wouldn't do before the v-plug and booster piston. So it's not a cure all for under gassed guns but it does help, next step for me is to take her apart and measure the gas ports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 If you want to see some crazy drama you should check out the thread on the AZ forum link on page 2 of this thread. I was waiting to see if that meet & shoot was going to happen in AZ. It would be a good competition to plan a shooting vacation around for the summer. I plan on going to Tiajauana this summer & partyin' like a rock-star again & was thinking about adjusting the time of my trip & see if I could pick up some people for a road trip to T.J. from that With all, the excitement in T.J. lately with the cartel wars the more the "merrier" really comes into play, but the crazier the streets are, the better the memories I seem to bring back if I remember anything at all. Best to avoid the $5.00 all you can drink tequila spots if you wanna remember your trip. Annnnnnyhow... Torture test videos with full auto guns tend to make unsubstantiated detractions moot. Just to let people know i have a 3 port gun (dont know the port sizes yet) my bolt is shaped and polished to the point it looks like chrome ................. Got Pics? I see a lot of attempts come into the shop. Maybe I can PM you some pointers. I'm betting you can't get my .07 port gauge into any of the ports though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'll get some pics up tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'll get some pics up tonight. Inserting a full mag on a closed bolt is no problem and I can also close the bolt slowly with minimal noise after my polish job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Wound back up using the factory spring. It was on the verge of working solid with a 22LB 1911 spring. I had to screw the auto plug almost all the way in regardless. I got it to cycle winchester walmart 1200fps loads from the shoulder pretty happily (Wouldn't work at all from the hip), it never would before. I ran a mixed mag of those and 3" magnums, and some other hot ammo, couldn't tell much of a difference in recoil between all of them but they all ejected about the same distance, and with extremely light recoil. I can't say how well the puck works, but apparently it does work, as I've never managed to cycle that ammo before, even got it to work in the drum. I'm mainly just happy that it's running the weakest to the hottest with almost no difference in recoil, and cycling them all equally well. I did put a buffer in it, as a just in case measure. The buffer doesn't seem to have any effect what so ever on reliability for me, but it does absorb a tiny bit of the recoil with heavy loads. In any case I went through a little over 100 rounds of 12 gauge and my shoulder doesn't even know I was shooting. So I'd have to say I'm quite pleased, since I can run about any ammo I want without an issue, or having to adjust anything. If I wanted it rock solid reliable with that super light winchester stuff, I'd just throw in one of my reduced power 1911 springs, but I never shoot that ammo normally anyway. Federal no.6 is a lot cheaper, and has a lot more cycling power. I just wanted the winchester for testing. Still can't get over how little recoil my gun has, it's lighter on the shoulder than my 308 even. Edited March 30, 2011 by Tombs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 If you want to see some crazy drama you should check out the thread on the AZ forum link on page 2 of this thread. I was waiting to see if that meet & shoot was going to happen in AZ. It would be a good competition to plan a shooting vacation around for the summer. I plan on going to Tiajauana this summer & partyin' like a rock-star again & was thinking about adjusting the time of my trip & see if I could pick up some people for a road trip to T.J. from that With all, the excitement in T.J. lately with the cartel wars the more the "merrier" really comes into play, but the crazier the streets are, the better the memories I seem to bring back if I remember anything at all. Best to avoid the $5.00 all you can drink tequila spots if you wanna remember your trip. Annnnnnyhow... Torture test videos with full auto guns tend to make unsubstantiated detractions moot. Just to let people know i have a 3 port gun (dont know the port sizes yet) my bolt is shaped and polished to the point it looks like chrome ................. Got Pics? I see a lot of attempts come into the shop. Maybe I can PM you some pointers. I'm betting you can't get my .07 port gauge into any of the ports though. Real test will be when I get the time to check my ports, who knows I may leave them alone, just to have the perfect gun to test pistons in. With that said only having 3 FTE'S on one 20 rd drum compared to 20 before is a good improvement, but my port sizes will tell the real story on how good the booster piston is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 I don't know if this information is out there but I thought it was relevant. The KA puck and Twister puck I have both weigh 35.3g. The Booster puck weighs in at 13.2g. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brucey 5 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Put 500 rounds of federal through mine on last saturday. Had 3 stovepipes. All of which were in the last 200, when I cleaned the gas block out it obviously needed it. Ordered the booster puck as more of a 922r thing, and I figured for the price why not. Tried it out yesterday. It now fires from the hip (which it never would before) easily, and so far (only fired 50 rounds yesterday) not a single malfunction of any kind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scalilou 2 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Although my gun runs fine, I had to order one for the hell of it, can't beat the price. Puck arrived today, I must say it's a quality, well made, light weight puck. Much lighter than the stock puck, with a very nice finish to it (maybe thats it's secret, wink,wink) Going to shoot another 1000 or so rounds on sat so i'll post any difference the puck makes. Great job on another quality product, mike. Wish you much success with it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joesmoe 14 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well I checked my ports tonight and 1 was obstructed so it was only at like .035, 1 was at .063, and 1 was at .076 so I will say that I'm a believer in the booster puck, like I said before only 3 fte's out of a 20 round drum with it and they were the first 3 out of the drum with the next 17 firing perfect, but since I had it apart I drilled all 3 out to .093 so I'm probably going to have to order the stainless puck as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redrider 0 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 "It worked so good in fact that out of a 4 port gun I could cycle low brass using a gunfixer plug that was sitting in a posistion equvielt to the 1 setting on the V-Plug. This is almost completely shut off! I quickly realized that this was not a good piston to release to the public. Not because it didn't have great potential to fixing certain peoples problems, but because it would put many pistons into circulation that if not properly used would damage guns..." -MD Even if you have buffer? I thought i could have the carrier hammering the receiver harder than a hooker on cowboy payday with that blue thing i got off here... have i overestimated this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 ^ so your rear trunnion is safe an your shoulder is OK, but what about the rest of your gun(ie. Op rod, GB).^ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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