yooper14.5 84 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) about those lightfield slugs, the 3 1/2" version is insane. http://www.lightfieldslugs.com/Lightfield/Products/Detail/?c=91&p=342 Edited March 29, 2011 by yooper14.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 holy shit........ has anyone seen the 3 1/2" version of those? im gonna try one on a deer. thanks for posting that. http://www.lightfiel...ail/?c=91&p=342 geez man, 3 1/2" slug like that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) hell yeah! im gonna drop, no, DESTROY the deer, and possibly blow it back a foot and myself 3 feet....... but i wont have to track it, because there'll be a red mist in the air over its body. Edited March 29, 2011 by yooper14.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 hell yeah! im gonna drop, no, DESTROY the deer, and possibly blow it back a foot and myself 3 feet....... but i wont have to track it, because there'll be a red mist in the air over its body. damn. i bet the deer wont feel much, itl probably be dead before it hits the ground Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sickness 89 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 ok now most of my experince is with reloading pistol and rifle rounds but why bother trying to do something so out of the 12 guage realm. If you want a long range rifle that will pierce body armor buy an fal. 20rd .308 mine is more accurate then a m-14 and has been as reliable as an ak. If you want something really big get a .458 and load 500gr solids. Well, the idea is to have a projectile that is useful to longer ranges than, say, ordinary buck shot. The thought being.. if you could just get a slug accurate and powerful enough to be a one-shot stop at 100 yds, then you'd have a gun that dominates the 0-50yd range (buckshot) and is servicable out to 100 yds with slugs. A formidable weapon. The idea is not to be able to shoot out to 600 or 700 yds like a .308. The idea is to extend the useful range of a shotgun beyond CQB. And please show me a reference for a sub-MOA FAL. A built rifle for sale would be great.. but even just a smith who gives a sub-MOA guarantee for their builds would be VERY much appreciated! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Have you tried these for what you want to do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 I will have to try the brennekke black magic so far my s12 loves their ko slugs. Sickness is on the idea path i like. Bring the s12 out of only being close range and give it to around 125 yards make it so one mag load can dominate close and another mid range. Anything out past let's say 150 yards you could hit but not super accurately and you should use something else. I think the s12 will make a excellent all around platform for do it all gun. I just like the fact that I have a lot of chances to put big holes in stuff really quickly too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notoriginal79 0 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 ok now most of my experince is with reloading pistol and rifle rounds but why bother trying to do something so out of the 12 guage realm. If you want a long range rifle that will pierce body armor buy an fal. 20rd .308 mine is more accurate then a m-14 and has been as reliable as an ak. If you want something really big get a .458 and load 500gr solids. Well, the idea is to have a projectile that is useful to longer ranges than, say, ordinary buck shot. The thought being.. if you could just get a slug accurate and powerful enough to be a one-shot stop at 100 yds, then you'd have a gun that dominates the 0-50yd range (buckshot) and is servicable out to 100 yds with slugs. A formidable weapon. The idea is not to be able to shoot out to 600 or 700 yds like a .308. The idea is to extend the useful range of a shotgun beyond CQB. And please show me a reference for a sub-MOA FAL. A built rifle for sale would be great.. but even just a smith who gives a sub-MOA guarantee for their builds would be VERY much appreciated! actually my bastard fal that I bought at a gun show for $400 gets sub-moa groups. of course I was speaking of in general. Not custom built $3000 m-14's. I've talked to a few people who have both and found the standard fal beat their standard m-14 for accuracy and reliability. Of course thats not what this thread or forum is about. I still want to see someone handload the lyman .69 caliber 730 grain slug into a wad and save about $2.60 a round as opposed to the lightfield. I think 100 yards is all one should expect from a saiga being that they are smoothbore. no reason to try to extend the range its a shotgun. if you want range get a rifle. lets be honest smoothbores are typically only considered 45 yard guns. ya some buck loads can carry further but its still only a guarantee out to 45yds anything more is pushing your luck. I've noticed guys on here seem to way overestimate the tactical use of a shotgun. I love the thing and its a hell of a close quarters gun that can't be beat in its niche but its a niche weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 According to Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and a BC of .104 for the slug (BC for a 12ga foster type slug...only 12ga slug BC I could find) that 3" Black Magic Magnum would be ~4" high at 75 yards and ~5" low at 150 yards with a 125 yard zero. Are slugs the only legal way to hunt with where you live? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sickness 89 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 actually my bastard fal that I bought at a gun show for $400 gets sub-moa groups. of course I was speaking of in general. Not custom built $3000 m-14's. I've talked to a few people who have both and found the standard fal beat their standard m-14 for accuracy and reliability. Of course thats not what this thread or forum is about. Understood. I'm not trying to hijack the thread.. just giddy with the thought I might be able to run out and buy a tuned up FAL. Guess I'll have to wait until I'm lucky enough to find a deal too good to pass up and pray. Speaking of .308 though, I've often wondered about how to make duplex or triplex 308 rounds. Ideally, you could get 2 or 3 50gr projectiles into a 308 casing, so it would sort of be like a poor man's tri-burst. Kind of like the inverse of what we're seeing here. The idea there is that you could have something like a Saiga 308 that could do double duty as CQ weapon with light loaded 308 duplex rounds, and with a mag change you can switch to standard 308 for DMR purposes. <shrug> As fascinating as all this stuff is, at the end of the day - you're better off with a purpose-built weapon. But I think the unspoken subtext to a lot of this is the desire for a single long arm that you can grab when you don't know how you might need to use it. A 12ga can be pretty versatile .. from rescue flares, to small game, right up to CQ combat. Its tempting to try to get a bit more out of it.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 has anyone of you tried Hexolit 32? the YouTube vids look amazing. punching through engine block, etc. if only we have these things here in our shores. forget double O buck for HD/SD or zombie fighting for that matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) has anyone of you tried Hexolit 32? the YouTube vids look amazing. punching through engine block, etc. if only we have these things here in our shores. forget double O buck for HD/SD or zombie fighting for that matter. we do. http://www.ddupleks....ow/distributors Edited March 30, 2011 by yooper14.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 better link: https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=dupleks&x=0&y=0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes unfortunately the area where I can hunt is shotgun only unless I wana try a Friggin bow and arrow which i really suck at because of my nerve damage. Yes one gun that u pick up if u don't know what u will encounter is my goal close to medium range. I consider man size at at 125 yards the max but I could probably rainbow some lead further Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes unfortunately the area where I can hunt is shotgun only unless I wana try a Friggin bow and arrow which i really suck at because of my nerve damage. Yes one gun that u pick up if u don't know what u will encounter is my goal close to medium range. I consider man size at at 125 yards the max but I could probably rainbow some lead further What about muzzle-loaders or "obsolete" guns like something chambered in 45-70? Can you hunt with those where you are? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Desolo 55 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Jesus christ now THATS a slug.... "The lightfield 3-1/2 inch slug.... Fuck your shoulder, you want that deer SO dead it explodes into a shower of hamburger conveniently prepackaged into little white paper packages..." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 How odd you bring up the 45-70. That's what my rainbowing the lead in came from because many times they were used at plain stupid ranges by aiming muzzle high and realizing they would drop. I have a Martin 1895 but still cannot use it as the area is shotgun only. There is a muzzle loader season but that is what the property owner hunts so he said I could have the shotgun days on his land. Plus I can't believe with all the stuff done to these guns this is unthinkable Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 How odd you bring up the 45-70. That's what my rainbowing the lead in came from because many times they were used at plain stupid ranges by aiming muzzle high and realizing they would drop. I have a Martin 1895 but still cannot use it as the area is shotgun only. There is a muzzle loader season but that is what the property owner hunts so he said I could have the shotgun days on his land. Plus I can't believe with all the stuff done to these guns this is unthinkable Is your area shotgun only, or no necked down cartridges, leaving only shotgun as an option? I ask because in our area its considered shotgun only but i read the law and its no necked down cartridges. That leaves rounds like the 45-70, .22, and. 500 nitro express legal to hunt with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Yes I asked when I first moved to this stupid area and the property I would be hunting on is in Allegheny county and the owner said it is straight shotgun only. There are no semi auto rifles allowed at all even in the rifle approved areas this area has dumb rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) I could hunt somewhere else but I really like the way this idea is going. I will try more digs this weekend also I just bought a reading press to try some ideas out Edited March 30, 2011 by kindapointless Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notoriginal79 0 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Understood. I'm not trying to hijack the thread.. just giddy with the thought I might be able to run out and buy a tuned up FAL. Guess I'll have to wait until I'm lucky enough to find a deal too good to pass up and pray. Speaking of .308 though, I've often wondered about how to make duplex or triplex 308 rounds. Ideally, you could get 2 or 3 50gr projectiles into a 308 casing, so it would sort of be like a poor man's tri-burst. Kind of like the inverse of what we're seeing here. The idea there is that you could have something like a Saiga 308 that could do double duty as CQ weapon with light loaded 308 duplex rounds, and with a mag change you can switch to standard 308 for DMR purposes. <shrug> As fascinating as all this stuff is, at the end of the day - you're better off with a purpose-built weapon. But I think the unspoken subtext to a lot of this is the desire for a single long arm that you can grab when you don't know how you might need to use it. A 12ga can be pretty versatile .. from rescue flares, to small game, right up to CQ combat. Its tempting to try to get a bit more out of it.. I got lucky with my fal its made from a bunch of surplus parts from god knows where but there is a company that does fancy fals. enterprise http://www.entreprise.com/fal/Carbine%20Fal%20Rifle.htm I don't think a 3 segment bullet would work well for a .308 you wouldn't get enough spread better off with a frangible for close quarters. they used to make a .308 semi auto with a 12 gauge pump under it called the crossfire. I think they still make it but in .223/12 gauge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc 147 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 How odd you bring up the 45-70. That's what my rainbowing the lead in came from because many times they were used at plain stupid ranges by aiming muzzle high and realizing they would drop. I have a Martin 1895 but still cannot use it as the area is shotgun only. There is a muzzle loader season but that is what the property owner hunts so he said I could have the shotgun days on his land. Plus I can't believe with all the stuff done to these guns this is unthinkable To bad you can;t use your Marlin, 45-70 is still pretty accurate out to extended hunting ranges...even if you have to aim it like a howitzer Its good you got a reloading press to try stuff out, I was going to suggest something like this to you (if the Brenneke Black Magic Magnum didn't work out), though I have never tried them they look pretty good to me for what you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes I asked when I first moved to this stupid area and the property I would be hunting on is in Allegheny county and the owner said it is straight shotgun only. There are no semi auto rifles allowed at all even in the rifle approved areas this area has dumb rules. dont take it from word of mouth. in my area, if you ask anybody, theyll tell you shotgun only. research your laws yourself, and make sure your reading the actual law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 has anyone of you tried Hexolit 32? the YouTube vids look amazing. punching through engine block, etc. if only we have these things here in our shores. forget double O buck for HD/SD or zombie fighting for that matter. we do. http://www.ddupleks....ow/distributors thanks brother for the links. but "WE DON'T" have it in our shores (good 'ol Philippines). the choices of ammo here is so vast, in fact so vast, as long as our choice is between armscor and tactical edge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Slugs what is the best grizzly bear slug. I remember walking the trails in ak the grizly tracks wer big as paper plates with claws. I was packing a winchester 1300 loded with slugs but was still scared. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sickness 89 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I got lucky with my fal its made from a bunch of surplus parts from god knows where but there is a company that does fancy fals. enterprise http://www.entrepris...Fal%20Rifle.htm Enterprise FALs aren't sub-MOA, unfortunately. I talked to them awhile back, when I was looking to buy my DSA FAL a sister. Their target rifle is good for 2 MOA. If it is cycling well and delivering 2 MOA - Enterprise won't want to talk warranty service. Maybe you can find lucky examples, or tune a handload and adjust the gas to give better. But for my money, that isn't good enough. $1200 buys a lot of rifle.. many with accuracy guarantees. I'm not saying you don't have a sub-MOA FAL. It could have been built by a lucky guy, or a bonafide genius. I once saw an M1 Garand milled to accept BAR mags.. search the internet as you will, I can't find a smith to do the work. So, clearly the internet isn't the end-all-be-all for finding a genius machinist or gunsmith because it can be done. I don't think a 3 segment bullet would work well for a .308 you wouldn't get enough spread better off with a frangible for close quarters. they used to make a .308 semi auto with a 12 gauge pump under it called the crossfire. I think they still make it but in .223/12 gauge. There was a military project called Project SALVO that investigated "multiplex" 308 rounds. My understanding is that the rounds actually worked very well and exceeded the technical goals of the project and a limited amount when into production. But they weren't fielded due to logistical issues and price. I became aware of the project after I saw a single military developed triplex round for sale on Gunbroker. I wouldn't want a Crossfire. I'd rather get or make a "Masterkey" type shotgun and mount it on a rail.. at least then I can shed the weight. Edited March 31, 2011 by sickness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Slugs what is the best grizzly bear slug. I remember walking the trails in ak the grizly tracks wer big as paper plates with claws. I was packing a winchester 1300 loded with slugs but was still scared. honestly man, if i were in dangerous game territory, id want a large caliber semi auto rifle. maybe an AR10 or a saiga 12 with magnum slugs. and of course, at least two high power pistols for side arms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 has anyone of you tried Hexolit 32? the YouTube vids look amazing. punching through engine block, etc. if only we have these things here in our shores. forget double O buck for HD/SD or zombie fighting for that matter. we do. http://www.ddupleks....ow/distributors thanks brother for the links. but "WE DON'T" have it in our shores (good 'ol Philippines). the choices of ammo here is so vast, in fact so vast, as long as our choice is between armscor and tactical edge. Then explain why i can buy thm and have them shipped to my door from ammunitiontogo.com. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 My 45-70 is what I always had in areas with bears loaded with buffalo bore hardcast. After watching these penetrate an old vest dig a tunnel in the stump it was on I felt pretty good about them. It's things like the buffalo bore and the leveroution ammo that bring me back to the super slug. A supposed obsolete cartridge that somebody thought outside of the box on and has made a resurgence as a modern dangerous game cartridge. I was always told the 45-70 was ballisticly similar to 12 ga slugs for the ridiculous drop but taking large game with it was not uncommon out to ridiculous ranges by aiming like an artillery piece. Any one know what the old requirements were to be called a rifle man? Man sized Target at 500 yards open sights. Check out the Apple seed project they come around to ranges and will teach you how. All I'm saying is this was old tech and we've come along way just look at the stuff we have done to what is essentially a big piece of crap from the factory. There has been some amazing inovations like lrbho, drums, magwells, and so on but NONE on the most basic the most important thing what comes out the barrel. I'm just trying to stir the pot of thought. Is there really a need. No. Is there really a need for anything we do to these. No we could leave them as imported. But we don't. We improvise we adapt we over come. We innovate some much so there is a Friggin government study about us. Now that's saying something. We are not content so why be content with crap ammo? Sorry about the rant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yooper14.5 84 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 heres the link you can buy it directly from: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/25rds-12-gauge-ddupleks-2-34-1-18oz-expanding-shotgun-ammo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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