kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Hi all. I had an idea earlier after reading about the 12 gauge from hell involving brass cased full bore slugs. My question is why no one uses pointed slugs that stick out the case? Ballistic it would have to be better. Like a 76 caliber rifle round. My thoughts were like my 45-70 no one made them because of tube mags and heavy recoil. Saga 12 does not have any of those problems cause of the stacked mag. I found some pics of people doing this I will try to post later. Just wondering if anyone else had these thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 That would be "kindapointless" if you loaded them into a tube fed gun and blew yourself up. LOL...sorry man I couldn't resisit. J/K... I'm sure you were just talking about using them in a Saiga -12. I would love to have some myself to use with my rifled slug choke and paradox. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I can't help it I like things that are kinda pointless. Those are the ones that are extremely fun. I will now try to post pics of what I've found. Bpi full bore hollow point copper jacketed slugs and slugs in magtec brass sticking out the end and cramped like a rifle shell. They intrigue me. They look cool too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Here's some from Russia called steel elephants 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sludaddy 0 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Here's some from Russia called steel elephants holy s**t. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think the idea behind a slug is to hit like a hammer, not penetrate like a rifle bullet. I suppose better ballistics could be accomplished, but range is still going to be very limited as compared to rifle ballistics already established. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Here's some from Russia called steel elephants I need those for my mossberg 695. That's the perfect gun, by far, for anything like this topic is discussing. I don't know, I just feel like sabots are a waste based on experience with them in rifles. A full bore slug designed like a regular rifle round would really squeeze out the range and accuracy from that gun I think. In any case, they'd look amazing hanging off the shell holder. Edited March 25, 2011 by Tombs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 My thoughts exactly. these brass cased would defiently have a wow factor as for the ballistic were talking about something a third again as big as a fifty cal and I know from experience they have no problem with knockdown power. I know the power wouldn't be the same but the pointy on is still ounce and a quarter. that's gonna knock something down. like zombie elephants. or maybe a squirrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) The Sauvestre BFS (aka Silver Arrow) is designed along the same idea as an APDSFS antiarmor round. It has a thermoplastic fin fixed to the aft end of the lead slug body. It is enclosed by a two piece sabot that flies off the slug the same fashion as the larger APDSFS round when it leaves the barrel. If I remember correctly, a 400 yd practical accuracy is claimed . Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a domestic source(Made in France) Edited March 25, 2011 by EWOKETEER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Wow, I think it is a great coincidence but, I think they are not around is because they really are "kindapointless" as Cobra has said. Probably just not better "enough" than a regular, affordable slug round to warrant them. Like all the fancy Exotic shotgun rounds that can never really do any better than good old Buck shot and Slugs. Sort of like spending $50 grand on a car because it can go 2mph faster than your $10k car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Google 12 gauge fh and u will see the leaps and strides these guys have made with this stuff its amazing. But yes it is essentialy pointless unless u can only use a shotgun for hunting and want better range and accuracy. I'm interested in it for that and the wow factor when I go to the range since its slug only and the guy is going to check my ammo. Anyone know what is the shortest case that will load. Like 2 1/8 with 1/2 of slug protruding on top of that or would the case have to be 2 3/4? Edited March 25, 2011 by kindapointless Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobRez 1,895 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 What distances are you planning on hunting at? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 LMAO @ "like zombie elephants. or maybe a squirrel..." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 50 to 150 yards is what I do with my slug gun using horandy sst sabots with a 22 fully rifled barrel and scope but can hold a 3 inch group most of the time out to 200 but that's a bolt action made strictly for that purpose. I don't think asking a properly built s12 for 3 inch at 150 would be out of the question I just have to find the right ammo for it. I have 5 more types of slugs I'm working with this weekend. I contracted Bpi for the slugs and emailed rmc for the brass cases. I just like things a little different then most I guess I just got some spare cash and like to try odd things really Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) 50 to 150 yards is what I do with my slug gun using horandy sst sabots with a 22 fully rifled barrel and scope but can hold a 3 inch group most of the time out to 200 but that's a bolt action made strictly for that purpose. I don't think asking a properly built s12 for 3 inch at 150 would be out of the question I just have to find the right ammo for it. I have 5 more types of slugs I'm working with this weekend. I contracted Bpi for the slugs and emailed rmc for the brass cases. I just like things a little different then most I guess I just got some spare cash and like to try odd things really Really, you would be surprised... Edited March 26, 2011 by beefcakeb0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 You are right sir i am not the best shot that's why I am trying to stack the deck in my favor. I would hate to see u with my tar heel I know I'm not doing it justice. I can't really do anything to improve my accuracy on my end so I screw with the firearms and ammo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I would love about 250 to 1000 armor shredding sharp point steel tip rifled slugs!!!! just for shooting old junk cars and such of course! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vortex 2 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 WOW!!! ..... I've always wanted a 10 gauge, but after seeing that "12 gauge FH" thread.... I wan't an 8 gauge NEF really really bad now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glennhmd 23 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 i think the point here is that when you want to modify or innovate on the kind of projectile you can use, there is just no beating the good-old-shotgun platform. just imagine all the stuff one can put in there. those Russian stuff sure looks evil. i want one... no make that a hundred. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nattyiceking 33 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Here's some from Russia called steel elephants holy s**t. Those were my thoughts exactly I want those Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I have sent several emails to some companies to see if anyone has any more info on them in English I found more info in Russian but it does me lol good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sickness 89 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I have sent several emails to some companies to see if anyone has any more info on them in English I found more info in Russian but it does me lol good Paraklese Technologies sells some interesting 12ga ammo. Steel spitzer penetrating slugs, frangible slugs.. and some other weird rounds. Expensive. But interesting. Its stupid though. Rifle bullets / penetrators in 12ga that is. Their frangible stuff looks promising though. Accuracy goes to hell out past 20yds or so. They don't spin or stabilize at all. I can't think of any scenario where these sort of rounds would be helpful at all. The closest I can come up with is to kill an engine. But that would have to be in a chase scenario, with them behind you at less than 20 yds. You're probably better off spraying the windshield with buckshot in that case. If they are chasing in some sort of armored vehicle that would be protected against buck and slugs to the windshield, they will probably have more than .5" plate around the engine, so those slugs are useless anyhow. And since they'll be shooting back, you're move is to shoot them - not the engine. For the type of thing you're looking at here, you'd need a rifled barrel. But the S12 is smoothbore... and rifled 12ga guns are going to be either break action or tube fed. Close, but no cigar. My advice is to do what I do.. every time I have some loony idea that is just fun enough to be totally impractical, or of dubious merit.. I think real hard about how much I'm willing to spend on the project, and then I take that money out of my savings account and put it into my gun fund to save up for something I really want. There are too many other cool guns to buy to just waste money on ridiculous ammo or half baked projects. Not that I'm against DIY projects. Quite the contrary .. thats one of the things that attracted me to the Saiga. But such projects should be fully baked, not half baked ..bleh whatever.. I do like the all brass shotgun shell casings though. I gotta see if I can find those. Might be nice to have a few mags of those around, top round won't get crushed.. no plastic fouling in the gas chamber, no plastic hull to get chewed up a bit and prevent feeding.. etc. Edited March 26, 2011 by sickness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 For a smoothbore gun, rifled slugs are as good as it gets for accuracy. Now, if you installed a fully rifled barrel on your Saiga-12, THEN a decent large bore bullet may be worthwhile. You'd be reinventing the wheel. Slugs for fully rifled shotguns are commercially available, and while not brass cased with a protruding bullet, are quite good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
one2za 7 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Y'all keep in mind the laws of your particular states. In Florida for example, you cannot have armor piercing, flechettes, bolo, or incendiary rounds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kindapointless 22 Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) You gentleman are right I guess. Some of my ideas work and some don't my new idea is find a 20 gauge bolt and sleveing the barrel down to 20 gauge but rifled. Kind of like the high end side by side full length choke tubes. Just came up with it earlier while holding one of those tubes. I really wish they had a saga 10. Edited March 26, 2011 by kindapointless Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewoketeer 35 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 A number of years ago I saw what was told to me was one of the projectiles from a 105mm 'Beehive' round. It looked like a.50 cal steel football with fins. That could be interesting if one was to make a sabot for it; after all, it is already fin-stabilized and would be useful in a smoothbore. However, check your local regs first....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Savage makes a bolt action fully rifled slug gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notoriginal79 0 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 ok now most of my experince is with reloading pistol and rifle rounds but why bother trying to do something so out of the 12 guage realm. If you want a long range rifle that will pierce body armor buy an fal. 20rd .308 mine is more accurate then a m-14 and has been as reliable as an ak. If you want something really big get a .458 and load 500gr solids. NOW as far as a super hunting slug what about the lyman .69 caliber 730 grain black powder rifle mold. Seems to me one should be able to pop that into a wad just like the lee 1oz slug and fire it around 1200 fps. Its nose heavy like the lee and lyman slugs so it will probably work out of a smooth bore. That would be a super slug for hunting anything from hog to grizzly. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152654569 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Has anyone fired the Lightfield 3" Commander Plus slugs out of the Saiga? They have ridiculous ballistics for a 3"....600 grains at 1700 fps = 3850 ft/lbs energy I have fired the Federal Powershok 3" magnum slugs through my Saiga, and they are an absolute bear at 547 grains @ 1600 fps = ~3100 ft/lbs energy. My friend also fired these through his converted 19" IZ109 with no flash hider and I was momentarily blinded by the massive muzzle blast. I'd LOVE to try the Lightfields, but they cost $3/round and are basically only available through mail order. Edited March 29, 2011 by TwentyNizzo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga_rom 91 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Here's some from Russia called steel elephants holy s**t. my thoughts exactly those are some intimidating rounds Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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