Do we need a Tactics Section?

[steveb327 13]

ATAC TV's got a lot of good stuff, including a Saiga 12 'basic training' series.

 

Thanks for that resource. Good, especially for people new to the S12, and for people who just think they know everything. That format would be helpful, and was exactly what I had in mind when I started following this thread.

 

Is there a verdict from the mods to put this in its own section? I echo that it's potentially big enough to parcel out. I suspect that they're waiting to see if interest and participation fizzles, kinda like the gear review section, for which I couldn't blame them.

 

I know there's already stuff spattered around the forum that would be a good fit for this. Does it make sense to post links - to start - to relevant threads here, and people can add their own vids, etc. to build it up? Yes, searching's fun...blah, blah. A lot of stuff is buried so deeply here that you only find it by accident.

 

Thanks to blkhwkguy for putting something up, btw. Admirable! And not even 1 of the mall ninja douchebags ripped into it for no good reason!!! I'd say that's a good start. Keep 'em coming!!

[Foxtrot Oscar 37]

What we really need is some methods for cleaning and sanitizing the fan once it gets hit by fecal matter.

 

FO

[bohound 281]

I've observed on this forum that there are so many that are unsupportive of police, S.W.A.T., and tactical operations that it makes me wonder why so many are interested in emulating them.

 

It's more in a "Sun Tsu" sort of way, not "emulation".

 

Sure you already knew that though.

Edited April 7, 2012 by bohound

[YOT 3,743]

I've observed on this forum that there are so many that are unsupportive of police, S.W.A.T., and tactical operations that it makes me wonder why so many are interested in emulating them.

 

It's more in a "Sun Tsu" sort of way, not "emulation".

 

Sure you already knew that though.

 

I have no idea what "Sun Tsu" means, so I'm sticking with the meaning I intended.

 

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I meant what I said.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Yeoldetool

[bohound 281]

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster." Sun Tzu.

 

I just can't type any more... Low hanging fruit.

 

(If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it!)

Edited April 8, 2012 by bohound

[YOT 3,743]

"Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster." Sun Tzu.

 

I just can't type any more... Low hanging fruit.

 

(If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it!)

 

Does that mean if I don't agree with the general consensus, keep it to myself??? Nonsense!

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

 

I have no idea what "Sun Tsu" means, so I'm sticking with the meaning I intended.

 

 

The Art of War

 

 

Chapter summary

1. Laying Plans/The Calculations explores the five fundamental factors (the Way, seasons, terrain, leadership, and management) and seven elements that determine the outcomes of military engagements. By thinking, assessing and comparing these points, a commander can calculate his chances of victory. Habitual deviation from these calculations will ensure failure via improper action. The text stresses that war is a very grave matter for the state, and must not be commenced without due consideration.
   
2. Waging War/The Challenge explains how to understand the economy of warfare, and how success requires winning decisive engagements quickly. This section advises that successful military campaigns require limiting the cost of competition and conflict.
   
3. Attack by Stratagem/The Plan of Attack defines the source of strength as unity, not size, and discusses the five factors that are needed to succeed in any war. In order of importance, these critical factors are: Attack, Strategy, Alliances, Army, and Cities.
   
4. Tactical Dispositions/Positioning explains the importance of defending existing positions until a commander is capable of advancing from those positions in safety. It teaches commanders the importance of recognizing strategic opportunities, and teaches not to create opportunities for the enemy.
   
5. Energy/Directing explains the use of creativity and timing in building an army's momentum.
   
6. Weak Points & Strong/Illusion and Reality explains how an army's opportunities come from the openings in the environment caused by the relative weakness of the enemy in a given area.
   
7. Maneuvering/Engaging The Force explains the dangers of direct conflict and how to win those confrontations when they are forced upon the commander.
   
8. Variation in Tactics/The Nine Variations focuses on the need for flexibility in an army's responses. It explains how to respond to shifting circumstances successfully.
   
9. The Army on the March/Moving The Force describes the different situations in which an army finds itself as it moves through new enemy territories, and how to respond to these situations. Much of this section focuses on evaluating the intentions of others.
   
10. Terrain/Situational Positioning looks at the three general areas of resistance (distance, dangers, and barriers) and the six types of ground positions that arise from them. Each of these six field positions offer certain advantages and disadvantages.
    
11. The Nine Situations/Nine Terrains describes the nine common situations (or stages) in a campaign, from scattering to deadly, and the specific focus that a commander will need in order to successfully navigate them.
    
12. The Attack by Fire/Fiery Attack explains the general use of weapons and the specific use of the environment as a weapon. This section examines the five targets for attack, the five types of environmental attack, and the appropriate responses to such attacks.
    
13. The Use of Spies/The Use of Intelligence focuses on the importance of developing good information sources, and specifies the five types of intelligence sources and how to best manage each of them.
    

 

This is all you need on tactics, or in other words Sun Tzu...........

[pony_express1973 183]

I guess I t depends on what would be included in the tatics section... how to wage war..... not really necessary.... quick mag changes.. i can see that

[YOT 3,743]

I have no idea what "Sun Tsu" means, so I'm sticking with the meaning I intended.

 

 

The Art of War

 

 

Chapter summary

1. Laying Plans/The Calculations explores the five fundamental factors (the Way, seasons, terrain, leadership, and management) and seven elements that determine the outcomes of military engagements. By thinking, assessing and comparing these points, a commander can calculate his chances of victory. Habitual deviation from these calculations will ensure failure via improper action. The text stresses that war is a very grave matter for the state, and must not be commenced without due consideration.
   
2. Waging War/The Challenge explains how to understand the economy of warfare, and how success requires winning decisive engagements quickly. This section advises that successful military campaigns require limiting the cost of competition and conflict.
   
3. Attack by Stratagem/The Plan of Attack defines the source of strength as unity, not size, and discusses the five factors that are needed to succeed in any war. In order of importance, these critical factors are: Attack, Strategy, Alliances, Army, and Cities.
   
4. Tactical Dispositions/Positioning explains the importance of defending existing positions until a commander is capable of advancing from those positions in safety. It teaches commanders the importance of recognizing strategic opportunities, and teaches not to create opportunities for the enemy.
   
5. Energy/Directing explains the use of creativity and timing in building an army's momentum.
   
6. Weak Points & Strong/Illusion and Reality explains how an army's opportunities come from the openings in the environment caused by the relative weakness of the enemy in a given area.
   
7. Maneuvering/Engaging The Force explains the dangers of direct conflict and how to win those confrontations when they are forced upon the commander.
   
8. Variation in Tactics/The Nine Variations focuses on the need for flexibility in an army's responses. It explains how to respond to shifting circumstances successfully.
   
9. The Army on the March/Moving The Force describes the different situations in which an army finds itself as it moves through new enemy territories, and how to respond to these situations. Much of this section focuses on evaluating the intentions of others.
   
10. Terrain/Situational Positioning looks at the three general areas of resistance (distance, dangers, and barriers) and the six types of ground positions that arise from them. Each of these six field positions offer certain advantages and disadvantages.
    
11. The Nine Situations/Nine Terrains describes the nine common situations (or stages) in a campaign, from scattering to deadly, and the specific focus that a commander will need in order to successfully navigate them.
    
12. The Attack by Fire/Fiery Attack explains the general use of weapons and the specific use of the environment as a weapon. This section examines the five targets for attack, the five types of environmental attack, and the appropriate responses to such attacks.
    
13. The Use of Spies/The Use of Intelligence focuses on the importance of developing good information sources, and specifies the five types of intelligence sources and how to best manage each of them.
    

 

This is all you need on tactics, or in other words Sun Tzu...........

 

 

So pretty much what I plan on every day those gates slam behind me...... Thanks.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I guess I t depends on what would be included in the tatics section... how to wage war..... not really necessary.... quick mag changes.. i can see that

+1

Also what gear works and what gear is garbage.

[corbin 621]

As the OP, I suppose it might help if I define what the original intention of this thread was. As you can see from my first post, I wasn't asking about a section that talks about how bad we think some Police are, or how to wage war against "the man". I wasn't talking about how to build bombs or how to convert anything to full auto, or any other illegal activity. What I was talking about was:

 

 

• Rapid mag reloads
  
• Tactical use of cover
  
• The best sling options for a particular use
  
• Load bearing equipment ideas
  
• Emergency medicine
  
• Left handed use
  
• Firearms use in and around vehicles
  
• Etc
  

 

I guess if someone wanted to post their technique for canning preserves, flint knapping or other self reliant type things, it could go in the tatics section too. Or maybe even a "survial" section. However, this is a SAIGA forum and not a survivalist forum, so perhaps we would best confine discussion to things as they relate to Saigas. Even my idea of emergency medicine might not be in keeping with that.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Corbin

[gunfun 3,931]

briefer Sun Tsu summary:

Say everything in vague and general enough terms that each statement is obvious and meaningless. Everyone will think you are brilliant and quote you for centuries. i.e. when you are on standing ground, stand. -- Thanks Sunny! Very helpful, I'll do that. Any chance you could enlighten us on how to recognize "standing ground"? Nope. Well ok then.

 

There were lots of historical manuals on warcraft that made real definite statements, gave systems for training... I really can't understand why people pay any attention to the rainbow statements in that book.

 

Contrast with Machiavelli, who gives historical examples of each approach, the advantages and disadvantages, and tips on how to recognize your situation, and then gives the reader the credit for enough intelligence to choose from several viable options.

 

Or the fight books of the Marxbruders or....

 

Patton's Principles.....

Edited April 10, 2012 by GunFun

[bohound 281]

Does that mean if I don't agree with the general consensus, keep it to myself??? Nonsense!

 

Not at all... I was referring to MYSELF. I WAS going to say something to the effect of "NEVERMIND-REDACTED" But I refrained.

 

oops.

Edited April 10, 2012 by bohound

[RobRez 1,895]

We can include useful Tactical info like:

Peanut Butter and Jelly: A Tactical approach to sandwich making

We will use 2 teams of 3, plus the lead man who goes in solo.

Team 1 will approach the kitchen from the East, while the lead man goes in through the main kitchen door. Team 2 will cover the rear exit of kitchen.

Lead man will use a Flash-Bang, then team 1 will enter and secure kitchen area.

After kitchen is secured, team leader will determine contents of refridgerator, and if present, secure Jelly from within.

Team 1 meanwhile keeps watch, as Intel indicates that peanut butter may Not be in the Fridge.

After Jelly is secured, and if peanut butter is NOT in fridge, team leader will then do a "Cabinet to cabinet" and locate, then secure peanut butter, and bread accordingly.

Team 1 members will supply Tactical Butter Knife or (TBK) for use in spreading ingedients onto bread.

Being sure not to take any of the first 4 slices, to ensure softness, team leader will then remove 2 bread slices, being careful not to cut the red wire.

Once bread is secured, team leader will use a Tactical Sammy Plate or (TSP) to place the bread on for the spreading of ingedients with TBK.

Team 1 providing cover while this objective is met.

After first sandwich is complete, team leader will repeat until each team member has secured their own sandwich.

Team leader will then vacate the kichen, followed by team 1, andprovide cover for team 1 while they exit kitchen.

 

 

 

Mission Accomplished!!!

Well Done TACSAM Squad!!

[Guns Are Great 140]

yes