Ammo Storage Unit Idea

[Boba Debt 350]

I want to use an old upright freezer to store my bulk ammo

 

My idea was to gut the inside and fill the sides, top and bottom with concrete to provide protection in case of a fire

 

I would do this by filling each side as it lay flat on that side, starting with the top so that the sides would support the top panel.

 

How ever I am concerned about the moisture in the concrete, since it takes so long to cure.

 

The slabs would only be about 2" thick but I still think it would take a long time to cure.

 

Is my concern baseless?

[gregomega 929]

Edit: my idea was lame, see below for much better ideas

Edited May 9, 2012 by AZG

[YOT 3,743]

I want to use an old upright freezer to store my bulk ammo

 

My idea was to gut the inside and fill the sides, top and bottom with concrete to provide protection in case of a fire

 

I would do this by filling each side as it lay flat on that side, starting with the top so that the sides would support the top panel.

 

How ever I am concerned about the moisture in the concrete, since it takes so long to cure.

 

The slabs would only be about 2" thick but I still think it would take a long time to cure.

 

Is my concern baseless?

 

You might be better off with multiple layers of fire rated sheetrock. It would be pricier than concrete, but more doable for one person. That also makes me wonder about the fire rating of a freezer the way it is. I mean if it's insulated to keep it cold, does it keep the hot out?

[TigerMoses 31]

A none flammable foam won't work as good or better? Concrete being solid conducts heat.

 

Maybe a foam & sand mixture give you best of both world?

[MT Predator 2,294]

What about the door? Concrete cured in the sun causes it to cure to quick and subject it to shrinkage cracking. Water is concrete's best friend. Saturating it and keeping it wet throughout the curing process will yield more strength and less prone to cracking. How do you plan to flip this thing around as you do each panel? I hope you have a forklift or something as that thing is going to get heavy even after the first panel.

[BuffetDestroyer 969]

The weak point is going to be the plastic seals on the door (from a fire standpoint) and the hinges may not support the weight of the concrete.

 

The real risk of fire damage is from the wood frame structure collapsing down and surrounding whatever your container is giving ample fuel to get the temperature up, so if you have an outdoor metal frame shed that is secure, that is the best place and it is away from the house if storing any combustibles.

Edited May 9, 2012 by BuffetDestroyer

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

The concrete will be too heavy for you, also if you do not use rebar. You'll end up with something that can be broken easily. The foam is the best suggestion so far for insulation. What are you going to use for shelving? What's in there will not hold up for the weight of ammo boxes. I think you would better off getting a fire rated safe or steel cabinet. By the time you get the fridge they way you want it. You will have either spent the same amount, or wish you had spent it....

[DogMan 2,343]

I built a theft-proof rural mailbox by building a plywood mold and pouring 3"sides, back, top, and bottom all at once with rebar inside. Let me tell you, this was one heavy motherfucker. I could slide it a few inches on a flat smooth shop floor by really putting my back into it but other than that I needed my bucket loader to move it. I would guesstimate that this weighed about a third of what you are talking about. Another weakness will be the seams where all sides meet. Since each section will be poured and start curing separately there will not be a good bond between them. I think it's a good idea in theory but as always the devil is in the details.

[YOT 3,743]

Even "fire safes" are rated for for only minutes, not hours.

[BpS12 512]

You could use firebrick from your local TSC or woodstove seller. but I would recommend this http://budgetcastingsupply.com/FiberFrax.php. We use it and stuff like it in our Horseshoeing forges.

[devildogdakota 804]

Fiber mesh mixed in the concrete will bond it and help prevent cracking. I'm not sure if the door hinges would be strong enough to handle the weight of the concrete on the freezer door, I don't know. Fire/ smoke rated gypsum board would work, atleast buy you some time if it was engulfed in flames, but you'd have to make sure all the drywall was lapping the adjoining edges on all sides, possibly fire caulking the seams.

[Boba Debt 350]

The concrete was not for insulating the ammo, it was to protect my family and any first responders from injury

 

I don't think you would need rebar or mat since most freezers have coils that line the sides, I figured that would act like a mat.

 

Shelving would be 2 x 10s cut to fit and I would pour the concrete around the wood to support them.

[MT Predator 2,294]

I'm still curious as to how you are going to flip this thing around to pour each side as it progressively gets heavier.

[DrThunder88 912]

You could build a mini blockhouse out of cinder blocks. The footprint might be a bit bigger than your average freezer, but it could work.

[YOT 3,743]

Guns shoot through cinder blocks. There isn't much protection there unless they're filled.

[G O B 3,516]

A commercial flammable materials locker would be a much better way to go. Ammo lockers do not need to be 'bullet proof', ammo cooks off more like firecrackers than gunfire.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Boba even if you got that built and managed to move it where you wanted to. A house fire will still burn through it. If your concern is safety if the ammo goes off, do what Indy did.

[devildogdakota 804]

A guy could fabricate a mock up freezer from scratch, using various materials ( to make it look just like an upright freezer), going as far as putting actual freezer hardware, emblem/labels and a dummy cord on it. Hell, the cord could be functional with a Golden Rod and a light in it. The customized innards could be endless!

[XD45 7,124]

As pointed out the container doesnt have to be bulletproof. I use ammo cans. Theyre called ammo cans for a reason.

[Boba Debt 350]

A commercial flammable materials locker would be a much better way to go. Ammo lockers do not need to be 'bullet proof', ammo cooks off more like firecrackers than gunfire.

 

 

 

Flame lockers are very expensive and difficult to find in my area.

 

 

 

As pointed out the container doesnt have to be bulletproof. I use ammo cans. Theyre called ammo cans for a reason.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to stick a spam can or sealed case of 1000 rounds into an ammo can and it would be silly to open either to stich the boxes of ammo into an ammo can

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

Boba,

 

Being a firefighter I commend your concern for safety of first responders.

 

I don't think the concrete will do much given the seal will melt away and actually combust as well as the any other plastic in the freezer. As other have previuosly mentioned the weight of the unit will make it near impossible to move. Even if you can move it doing so may cause the concrete to crack.

 

Dry wall is probably the best bet as previously mentioned, to reduce heat transfer to the ammo. Most safe companies use it for fire lining. Won't work for more than ten minutes or so, but it will for a short time. Most Flammable lockers are intended for fuel, solvents, and spray cans.

 

I would simply notify 911 at dispatch that all first in crews need to be aware of the ammo. They'll likely with draw to a safe distance and let the house burn down so the ammo can cook off safely. This is the plan I use.

 

If you have the yard for it you could just build a seperate ammo shed or bunker, and then it's close enough to get to when you need it, but not in the house should there be a fire.

[storm6490 2,768]

cook off eh? good job saving the structures after it's cleared.

[XD45 7,124]

Fer krist sake. It's ammo, not hand grenades.

[XD45 7,124]

 

It's kind of hard to stick a spam can or sealed case of 1000 rounds into an ammo can and it would be silly to open either to stich the boxes of ammo into an ammo can

 

Yeah that's so much more silly than building a concrete bunker out of a freezer...

[preparehandbook 326]

There is another thread with the whole "ammo in a fire" thing going.

 

To sum it up it's more movie magic and urban legend than real threat.

 

I like firefighters, have some in my family, know plenty. They share my opinions on the low risk of ammo.

 

Whenever I here "we'll stand back and let it burn" it reminds me of the cops that waited outside columbine while people bled to death, or the cops who waited outside the McDonald's McMassacre while the nutjob executed people, or the tennessee firefighters that let a house burn because of an unpaid $30 fire tax.

 

IF YOU WANT TO BE A FIREFIGHTER, DO YOUR FUCKING JOB!

 

Otherwise, be a librarian or something where folks don't depend on you.

[termite 463]

Why not just build you a storage box out of 3/16" steel plate, line it with fire board and lock it up good. As was said. ammo "cooks off" it doesn't "go off" as when shot from a gun. If you have ammo cooking off and going thru 3/16" steel plate, then something's wrong. I have most of mine stored in another 5' x 3' safe that I have, our local fire dept knows it's there and they have said that's fine with them. Now, butt loads of gun powder could be another problem if not stored correctly.

[Boba Debt 350]

Fer krist sake. It's ammo, not hand grenades.

 

Ok, you stand in a room with 10K rounds cooking off

 

 

Yeah that's so much more silly than building a concrete bunker out of a freezer...

 

 

Now you're just being a dick. I said it would be silly to open a sealed can of ammo to make the ammo fit into an ammo can.

 

If you don't know me you should spend a few minutes looking at my posting history. When I have an idea I make it happen. It may evolve along the way but I' not the type of poster that starts threads to theorize.

 

I posts a thread to solicit info, then I collate the info and proceed with my project.

 

I have little tolerance for dip shits like you so go troll someone else.

 

 

Why not just build you a storage box out of 3/16" steel plate, line it with fire board and lock it up good. As was said. ammo "cooks off" it doesn't "go off" as when shot from a gun. If you have ammo cooking off and going thru 3/16" steel plate, then something's wrong. I have most of mine stored in another 5' x 3' safe that I have, our local fire dept knows it's there and they have said that's fine with them. Now, butt loads of gun powder could be another problem if not stored correctly.

 

 

Building a box from 3/16 steel would cost as much as buying a safe, in fact, buying enough ammo cans to store 10k rounds would be as much as a cheap safe. I am pretty sure I can do this for less then $200 if I find a free freezer.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Boba Debt

[preparehandbook 326]

I personally thought the original posted idea is pretty damned neat. My favorite safe used to be a big electrical junction box with fake cables running in and out.

 

I don't think it'd be too difficult to build, turning it should be fairly easy with a friend or two to help.

 

It's true that stronger hinges might be needed I'm guessing.

[storm6490 2,768]

cut out a section of the slab in the garage and put in an ammo duno pit. diesel soaked plywood is the perfect form to hold the cement and rebar. leave a lip on the concrete for a door with cement poured on top of it. take a hell of a fire to cook the ammo off under ground!

 

[DogMan 2,343]

cut out a section of the slab in the garage and put in an ammo duno pit. diesel soaked plywood is the perfect form to hold the cement and rebar. leave a lip on the concrete for a door with cement poured on top of it. take a hell of a fire to cook the ammo off under ground!

This is a great idea. In fact, I've now got wheels turning in my head for something like this for myself. Potential moisture problems would have to be overcome but there are solutions for that.